[shankar.balan]

Babusundaram's post is deeply worrying. It is true that the land mafia, the scummy politicos and real estate goons are all in cahoots and have been merrily converting agricultural land for property development. This in itself is very dangerous because going the way we are, we will one day soon, no longer be able to feed our masses and will have to resort to imports. Whatever the socialist era did to us, at least at that time adequate attention was given to the development of agriculture in order to grow our own food. Now no government seems to have anything other than making money quickly, dishonestly and retaining power at any cost, on its agenda!
India dear beloved country! Whither goest thou?

[Car Fan]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

The growth is not due to them, but despite them. Most infrastructure is only an excuse to milk more money for themselves. Can anyone say with confidence that any of these project costs are actual and not inflated?

Disagree on this particular point -- in Delhi at least many of the changes have been facilitated by the government, which is why Sheila Dixit has been regularly reelected. Yes the same Dixit against whom there are CWG allegations -- corruption plus performance. There may be inflated project costs but everyone is in on it, not just the politicians.

Even with Delhi airport privatisation in 2006 there were allegations that Reliance ADAG had manipulated the bidding process and the government had to fix the process.

Like I said there are many causes for complaint but the Anna movement has convinced people that mainly the politicians are the problem when in fact society is the problem -- politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, everyone.

[dustom_99]

I agree 100%, its not the govt or the system or people incharge. We are a spineless society. we the people are responsible, every one us !

[SLK]

Originally Posted by Car Fan

Disagree on this particular point -- in Delhi at least many of the changes have been facilitated by the government, which is why Sheila Dixit has been regularly reelected. Yes the same Dixit against whom there are CWG allegations -- corruption plus performance.

Performance at multiple times the cost is not a performance! Delhi had money, that is why it is being spent and wasted, not because govt. wanted development any more than any other govt.

Originally Posted by Car Fan

in fact society is the problem -- politicians, businessmen, bureaucrats, everyone.

It's the ancestral lack (read shortage) of money/ wealth, that has left most people believing, the only way to get it is, to take it from other's share!

[libranof1987]

Classic Govt. behaviour : increase by 10; reduce by 3.

Part rollback of petrol hike likely by end-May - The Times of India

Another report also mentions how the Karnataka Govt. is planning to reduce the tax on petrol; but that is subject to BJP top brass approval.

Petrol price hike: Karnataka may cut local taxes - The Times of India

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by dustom_99

Sadly delhi isn't india, nor is it remotest representative of real india.

Only it is subsidized by the rest of India.

Originally Posted by punto_

I saw a tweet that was being aired of NDTV yesterday saying "Petrol costs 16/liter when it leaves the refinery and he claimed that he works for one of the Oil companies."

I think (barring Goa) the take of the Govt. is in excess of Rs.28 per litre. In Goa it is about half that.

Panikkar made an interesting remark on the box. Most states find petrol an easy source of revenue to fund free electricity, free foodgrains, etc.

The EGoM for diesel and LPG is now pushed back to Monday. They are in a soup since they have been shouting from housetops that it is an OMC decision to hike prices, and the OMCs seem to be in no mood to play ball!

Thank God the fuel prices discussion seems to have pushed the Window Film thread almost off the radar.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by punto_

I saw a tweet that was being aired of NDTV yesterday saying "Petrol costs 16/liter when it leaves the refinery and he claimed that he works for one of the Oil companies."

It may be even lesser. 25% of crude is extracted from our own country, bombay high, digboi, rajasthan, Krishna Godavari etc. Rest 25% is imported from Iran. Crude that is bought from Iran is of neglible cost and at below international prices at favorable rates.

Only remaining 50% is imported from other sources Saudi, Venezuela, Nigeria etc. Only this crude basket is bought at 120$ or 90$ whatever be the international prevailing rates. I infer that crude bought from Saudis by Reliance etc is of the long term contract nature and below prevailing spot price in International markets. Since the americans asked Saudis to supplant Iran as crude supplier to Indian refineries like reliance etc.

Indian Oil/ BP etc buy bulk of their refined oil from Reliance and just add their commission on top. So whatever price quoted as underrecoveries to the aam public is just eyewash. Does the govt have the guts to disclose at what price they buy crude from Iran and Saudis. And what is the actual cost of the end product.

[punto_]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

I think (barring Goa) the take of the Govt. is in excess of Rs.28 per litre. In Goa it is about half that.

Panikkar made an interesting remark on the box. Most states find petrol an easy source of revenue to fund free electricity, free foodgrains, etc.
.

That could well be it. I really don't agree with the free food/electricity or free whatever. By giving out things for free, we are making ourselves lazy and people who get used to this always expect the same. Instead of providing something for free, provide ore jobs, improve infrastructure of the country. That alone will open up many jobs. And government should educate every educated/uneducated person that we should control birth rate. We cannot have this kind of population!

Government should encourage families with one kid only. I know many might not agree with me on this, but I really think that's the need of the hour. How will we feed our hungry country? If government can say, if family has only one kid, then they will have to pay a little less tax or whatever.

Originally Posted by lurker

It may be even lesser. 25% of crude is extracted from our own country, bombay high, digboi, rajasthan, Krishna Godavari etc. Rest 25% is imported from Iran. Crude that is bought from Iran is of neglible cost and at below international prices at favorable rates.

I really think a RTI must be raised to find out what exactly is happening and as citizens we should demand for clear picture.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by punto_

That could well be it. I really don't agree with the free food/electricity or free whatever. .....

Explains the hight VAT in Punjab. I did not see the correlation till I heard Pannikar.

Government should encourage families with one kid only. I know many might not agree with me on this, but I really think that's the need of the hour. How will we feed our hungry country? If government can say, if family has only one kid, then they will have to pay a little less tax or whatever.

Encourage is fine but legislation is not easy. Even China has failed with its autocratic diktat.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by Car Fan

Disagree on this particular point -- in Delhi at least many of the changes have been facilitated by the government, which is why Sheila Dixit has been regularly reelected. Yes the same Dixit against whom there are CWG allegations -- corruption plus performance. There may be inflated project costs but everyone is in on it, not just the politicians.

Just because everyone involved gets a cut or because they are re elected does not mean that the people in power can be absolved. They are still guilty of stealing from the public pot. The only difference is that they are probably doing their job. So less evil than others who take a cut and do nothing. But still evil and corrupt!

Political compulsions at work probably? Here is an article with some suggestions. The Gandhian (Mahatma) ideal of 'paai-paai jodna' still works!
http://www.firstpost.com/politics/so...it-320786.html

Originally Posted by SLK

Performance at multiple times the cost is not a performance! Delhi had money, that is why it is being spent and wasted, not because govt. wanted development any more than any other govt.

yes, remember CWG? the army had to come in to help. And is the metro an independent body? Anyway, we are going OT here

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Thank God the fuel prices discussion seems to have pushed the Window Film thread almost off the radar.

Not long before some other thread/ breaking news comes up and takes our short attention span away. Easy to keep this going in a cycle. We have only so many effigies to burn.

[sgiitk]

Now JP Morgan bats for a 10% Diesel hike Hike in diesel prices by 10% will support rupee: JP Morgan - CNBC-TV18 -

I also hear that the EGoM is postponed by two weeks!

[srishiva]

I believe in de-regulation of prices. But the govt needs to have other policies right. You cant expect to listen to finance houses who dole out free advice on how to steady the rupee. Rupee problem is not from fuel prices.

The taxes on fuels is high which everyone agrees with. There are under recoveries every where and under utilization of resources for the right causes.

Small measures similar to what the railway minister tried are needed. Not something big that pushes up prices of everyday commodities even more.

[lohithrao]

Diesel price goes up and along with the price of all commodity/service goes up, wonder if it helps to fight the inflation.

Government should cost cut at their end, for ex unwanted foreign trips which cost million to nation...

Originally Posted by srishiva

I believe in de-regulation of prices. But the govt needs to have other policies right. You cant expect to listen to finance houses who dole out free advice on how to steady the rupee. Rupee problem is not from fuel prices.

The taxes on fuels is high which everyone agrees with. There are under recoveries every where and under utilization of resources for the right causes.

Small measures similar to what the railway minister tried are needed. Not something big that pushes up prices of everyday commodities even more.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by akj123

Within 500 mtrs we will get a bus/tram/metro, which are both comfortable and safe, even for the ladies. Or we can safely cycle - here cycling means smoke pollution and need for a larger life insurance !

We pay lot of taxes, but we don't get anything from governments. For everything we need to spend extra to make alternate arrangements:
- For health, again go to expensive pvt hospitals (thank god for medical insurance provided by offices).
- Any work from govt, we all know what is needed.

I'm not singling out any argument here, and neither am I saying that the government is doing a great job.

But I'll give you four counters to the above points from personal experience:

Comfortable public transport: Do we bother to stand in line, do we care enough to make the existing public transport safe for women? Who breaks the rules? Us.

The risks associated with cycling: I used to cycle to my in-law's place 7 km away. The vehicles that were making it unsafe for me on the road were mainly private cars. Not government vehicles or buses. So who's driving badly on the roads? Us.

Expensive healthcare: Are private hospitals expensive because of lack of government aid or because of the "boon" of corporate insurance? Who's driving the costs of private medical care? Us.

Bribes for all government work: I've recently gotten my passport renewed with a change in address in just a couple of weeks and I've also resolved an issue regarding an Income Tax notification for an amount that I already paid without any hint or request for a bribe. I have to be honest enough to say that had a bribe been demanded I would probably have paid. So who's driving corruption? Us.

I know that there will be a million counter anecdotes that counter my points, but I'm just trying to say that blaming "the government" for all our ills is probably not an accurate picture of what's going on today.

[punto_]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Encourage is fine but legislation is not easy. Even China has failed with its autocratic diktat.

Obviously, implementing anything in India is not an easy job at all!

As I said earlier, it all should start from us. Only then there can be any sort of hope for our country.