[guha_2001]

Originally Posted by nikhilarni

Hi T-Bhpians,

I zeroed in on the X3 ( 2017 ) and went in to test a CPO at a BMW dealer. The dealer showed me some Courtesy / loaner Vehicles which were 2019 models and had some decent discounts and were even more impressive to drive along with the additional bells and whistles.

Looking at advice on the Courtesy Vehicles and any advice from members who might have gone in for a courtesy vehicle.

Also, any advice on an equivalent MB model, what model and engine trim and advice on what I should keep in mind. My wife is inclined towards the Benz.

I purchased an X3 a few months back which had been used as a courtesy vehicle. Courtesy vehicles were not even on my shopping list, I was looking primarily at new vehicles. But a friend of mine convinced me to give one a try. I was impressed with the test drive, and even drove a brand new one right after and couldn't perceive any difference. Plus a discount of almost 25% (after negotiation) off the sticker price was just too good to resist. Overall has been a great experience and would recommend.

The dealer did a full service and detail before delivery and also completed a full inspection like a CPO vehicle.

Pros
- GREAT discount! You don't bear the brunt of depreciation which hits these Germans
- latest year model with all the bells and whistles
- full inspection completed by dealership
- with a few thousand miles, the car felt 'run-in' from the get go
- buying and loan process was exactly like a new car, very premium. Got a 2.5% loan from the dealership
- car maintained very well by the dealership to maintain a premium customer experience

Cons
- unknown driving history. This was a risk, but my friends convinced me that BMW courtesy vehicles are not rashly driven, especially SUVs that are typically driven by soccer moms
- the vehicle had some minor imperfections which I discovered later. Annoying but shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars to fix
- limited color choices, these vehicles mostly come in white or black

I would definitely do it again!

[avisidhu]

Originally Posted by avisidhu

Hi everyone, I'll be moving to Vancouver end of September, and have already starting lurking around craiglist much more than I should

Once settled, plan to buy a used, fun to drive MT sedan/hatch with an ability to seat 5, budget not exceeding 15K CAD.
.........

Made the move finally, thank you guys for your suggestions and solid advice. Heart is pretty much set on the GTI now, but I've decided to buy a compact SUV as family vehicle first.

Around 2014-2015 vintage Escape 2.0 Ecoboost, and Tiguan 2.0 TSI with DSG are falling within budget, and seem to be driver friendly with adequate power on tap. Are these decent options and is the transmission on these reliable? Anything specific to lookout for, and other alternatives to consider would be much appreciated!

[aah78]

Originally Posted by avisidhu

Around 2014-2015 vintage Escape 2.0 Ecoboost, and Tiguan 2.0 TSI with DSG are falling within budget, and seem to be driver friendly with adequate power on tap.

I don't know anyone using a Ford Escape but have a couple of friends using the 2.0l Tiguan as their family cross-overs.
Don't seem to have had any issues over the past few years & at-least one of the VW's does a LOT of miles.

[naveenroy]

And we finally landed a used 2018 Mazda CX 9 GT (AWD) for a good price. Had been looking to get a larger vehicle for some time now but kept putting it away as I could always commute on the motorcycle. But with the colder weather finally here, we thought it time to hit BUY.

It is a a GT and we got the dealer to also add in the Android Auto/Apple Carplay. That thing works great eh? And I love the HUD on the car - nice touch with road signal detection etc. Very nice car to drive and as Mobike's ownership review shows, a car that you can seriously put some miles on.

[21Archer84]

This is on behalf of a friend who just moved to the states, that I would like to know too. I tried to go through the previous pages, but there are too many to cover all the questions at one place.


1. For reason unknown to me, he likes the Lincoln MKC. How does it fare against the competition and what are the alternatives available. Get a Used Car or New?

2. He wants to go for lease option, around Dec. However, he plans to reside in Farmington hills, which I believe is about 25miles to Dearborn. Would leasing allow such high mile munching he’ll do?

3. Since he doesn’t have any credit history yet, would it really make any difference in APR between A. Leasing B. Buy?

4. For the chills and Snow that Detroit throws, I suggested AWD and Heated Seats to be the top priorities. What other features should he be looking into for a comfortable and safe ride?

His family would move in a month or two. Has a 2yr old kid, So Rear leg-room wouldn’t be top priority.

Someone working at Ford, can help me with this query.
Any advantages of getting a Ford product, say, covered parking at Work or better discounts during the purchase/lease? (I know FCA would let Employees use Covered Parking if you owned one from their stable)

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

2. He wants to go for lease option, around Dec. However, he plans to reside in Farmington hills, which I believe is about 25miles to Dearborn. Would leasing allow such high mile munching he’ll do?

3. Since he doesn’t have any credit history yet, would it really make any difference in APR between A. Leasing B. Buy?

)

It has been a while since we left the USA, other can pitch in, but here is my take/experience:

Mileage should never been a problem on a lease. It will just show upin the lease price. Higher mileage is a higher lease amount. More deprecitation, maintenance etc.

Getting credit in the USA without credit history is difficult at best and will be if anything expensive. My employer had a special arrangement with a credit union. All our employees were offered the same interest which was very useful

They advised me to take out a loan and stick to the monthly payment just to build credit history. Also, we found car insurance hugely expensive. Again, no USA insurance company was willing to accept our European years of no claim.

Good luck to your friend, but I suggest he really needs to check the leasing options and cost. When you buy cash, you still need to sort the insurance as well..

Nobody will take you on without a SSN, so when arriving in the USA that is the very first thing you need to arrange

Jeroen

[21Archer84]

Thanks for your suggestion Jeroen.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Good luck to your friend, but I suggest he really needs to check the leasing options and cost. When you buy cash, you still need to sort the insurance as well..

Sorry for the noob question. Would there be any difference with Insurance in case of Lease against full payment purchase?

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Nobody will take you on without a SSN, so when arriving in the USA that is the very first thing you need to arrange

He's already got SSN and also will be giving a driving test next week.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Sorry for the noob question. Would there be any difference with Insurance in case of Lease against full payment purchase?
.

Normally insurance is included in the lease arrangement and thus the lease price. But you do need to check the details, own risk etc.

One practical problem is that lease companies very often do not want to give a year of no claims certificate. That is very relevant if you at some point in time want to take out car insurance yourself.

Jeroen

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

This is on behalf of a friend who just moved to the states, that I would like to know too. I tried to go through the previous pages, but there are too many to cover all the questions at one place.


1. For reason unknown to me, he likes the Lincoln MKC. How does it fare against the competition and what are the alternatives available. Get a Used Car or New?

2. He wants to go for lease option, around Dec. However, he plans to reside in Farmington hills, which I believe is about 25miles to Dearborn. Would leasing allow such high mile munching he’ll do?

3. Since he doesn’t have any credit history yet, would it really make any difference in APR between A. Leasing B. Buy?

4. For the chills and Snow that Detroit throws, I suggested AWD and Heated Seats to be the top priorities. What other features should he be looking into for a comfortable and safe ride?

His family would move in a month or two. Has a 2yr old kid, So Rear leg-room wouldn’t be top priority.

Someone working at Ford, can help me with this query.
Any advantages of getting a Ford product, say, covered parking at Work or better discounts during the purchase/lease? (I know FCA would let Employees use Covered Parking if you owned one from their stable)

. For reason unknown to me, he likes the Lincoln MKC. How does it fare against the competition and what are the alternatives available. Get a Used Car or New?

I'm a huge fan of Lincolns and it is known as a "Posh" brand in the american manafactured cars and all their cars are pretty popular (Especially the SUV versions). I have driven the Lincoln MKC and it does not particularly stand out for it's driving asthetics but, is a very luxurious place to be inside with white leather (mostly) and great sound system and several luxurious features

If his mind is made up on it then he should get it. As simple as that !!

2. He wants to go for lease option, around Dec. However, he plans to reside in Farmington hills, which I believe is about 25miles to Dearborn. Would leasing allow such high mile munching he’ll do?

There are only 3 lease options (10K, 12K and 15K miles per year) and he should get the highest version which automatically means monthly payments will be higher. Typically the payments vary between $15-$40 per month depending on the option chosen

Farmington Hills to Dearborn is 25-28 miles which is 1000 miles only for office commute a month which leaves him very small amount to explore "Pure Michigan" and trust me having explored every nook and corner there are just too many places to visit and he may overshoot his mileage if he is the exploring type of person

Typical charges for overshooting the mileage is $0.15-$0.20 per mile

Btw, It's a small world. I too live in Farmington Hills

3. Since he doesn’t have any credit history yet, would it really make any difference in APR between A. Leasing B. Buy?

Lease- APR does not count as it's calculated differently

Buying- APR will be higher even if he has lived in USA for a year as credit history takes time to build up

Simple Difference between Lease and Buy Options

Lease- You get a brand new expensive car for cheap monthly payments but, you return the car in 3 years (Or, can buy it if you wish)

Buy- Monthly payments are nearly double for same car and you pay this amount for 5-7 years

4. For the chills and Snow that Detroit throws, I suggested AWD and Heated Seats to be the top priorities. What other features should he be looking into for a comfortable and safe ride?

His family would move in a month or two. Has a 2yr old kid, So Rear leg-room wouldn’t be top priority.

Someone working at Ford, can help me with this query.
Any advantages of getting a Ford product, say, covered parking at Work or better discounts during the purchase/lease? (I know FCA would let Employees use Covered Parking if you owned one from their stable)

Detroit gets really cold and we are already experiencing a lot of snow so some priority features will be (AWD, BSM, Heated Seats/Steering Wheel etc, Remote Car start to heat the car before getting inside)

If your friend works at Ford then he can expect a $4000-$5000 discount on MSRP as that is the typical discounts offered to employees if they buy their vehicles

Also important to note the insurance in Michigan is very high being a "No Fault" state which means there is no fault by either parties and insurance coughs up the dough and there is no limit for hospitalization as well (normally in other insurances there is a limit e.g $100K)

Monthly insurances are typically in range of $170-$225/month for a single driver

If you have any further questions. Feel free to ask. Hope this helps!

[21Archer84]

Firstly, Thanks for your reply Avi. I've gone through your well composed CX-9 thread and felt your thoughts would be helpful with the information I'm looking for.

Originally Posted by mobike008

If his mind is made up on it then he should get it. As simple as that !!

He's yet to finalise. With the wide range of cars across segments in US, we're spoilt for choice.
To make matters worse, he is hoping for suggestions from me. I'm not into big fat SUVs and would've preferred between Golf GTI or R and being a FCA fan the Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio(if I could afford that is).

Originally Posted by mobike008

Btw, It's a small world. I too live in Farmington Hills

He's yet to find a home, but that's where he wants to reside.
And Just to make it a bit more smaller, My friend and I are Hyderabadis too

Originally Posted by mobike008

Lease- APR does not count as it's calculated differently

Buying- APR will be higher even if he has lived in USA for a year as credit history takes time to build up

Simple Difference between Lease and Buy Options

Lease- You get a brand new expensive car for cheap monthly payments but, you return the car in 3 years (Or, can buy it if you wish)

Buy- Monthly payments are nearly double for same car and you pay this amount for 5-7 years

Thanks for the valuable insights. Leasing seems to be the best option, provided he's willing to buyback the car or pay for the additional miles he might clock at the end of the leasing period.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Detroit gets really cold and we are already experiencing a lot of snow so some priority features will be (AWD, BSM, Heated Seats/Steering Wheel etc, Remote Car start to heat the car before getting inside)

Thank You for the suggestions with the features list.

Originally Posted by mobike008

If your friend works at Ford then he can expect a $4000-$5000 discount on MSRP as that is the typical discounts offered to employees if they buy their vehicles

He will be reporting to work from Monday, through a consultant. Would that still qualify him to get Employee discount? Is December a good time for additional discounts in US, as is generally the case in India?

Originally Posted by mobike008

Also important to note the insurance in Michigan is very high being a "No Fault" state which means there is no fault by either parties and insurance coughs up the dough and there is no limit for hospitalization as well (normally in other insurances there is a limit e.g $100K)

Monthly insurances are typically in range of $170-$225/month for a single driver

Thank You for details. This will help him plan his finances accordingly.

I'm yet to understand his budget for the car, which will help shortlist the best ones to choose from with the features you have recommended. I will keep you posted.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

1. For reason unknown to me, he likes the Lincoln MKC. How does it fare against the competition and what are the alternatives available. Get a Used Car or New?

I have spent quite a bit of time in Lincoln MKX (Nautilus). Those vehicles are luxurious and has a premium interior with good amount of features. In general, its targeted towards old people who needs a plush ride.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

2. He wants to go for lease option, around Dec. However, he plans to reside in Farmington hills, which I believe is about 25miles to Dearborn. Would leasing allow such high mile munching he’ll do?

In his case, buying might be a better option as he will easily overshoot 15k miles per year (max mileage option in a lease).

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

3. Since he doesn’t have any credit history yet, would it really make any difference in APR between A. Leasing B. Buy?

Different brands have different requirements. I was planning to buy a Mustang when i graduated and Ford approved me for a lease (with limited credit history) and not a loan. Some local credit unions will offer auto loans for people with no or limited credit history.

Dealers can manipulate customers very easily with any lease. Most dealers would not share money factor and residual of a lease and this makes it really difficult to understand the deal. They would try to convince the customer with monthly payments which is a terrible way of buying any vehicle.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

4. For the chills and Snow that Detroit throws, I suggested AWD and Heated Seats to be the top priorities. What other features should he be looking into for a comfortable and safe ride?

His family would move in a month or two. Has a 2yr old kid, So Rear leg-room wouldn’t be top priority.

I echo the comment from mobike.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Someone working at Ford, can help me with this query.
Any advantages of getting a Ford product, say, covered parking at Work or better discounts during the purchase/lease? (I know FCA would let Employees use Covered Parking if you owned one from their stable)

Most Ford offices do not have parking structure or covered parking for employees. I think there is an option of parking closer to few buildings if the person who owns a Ford vehicle. If one puts in some effort and time, you can get better deal than the ones offered to Ford employees.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Sorry for the noob question. Would there be any difference with Insurance in case of Lease against full payment purchase?

I have not heard huge difference in auto insurance quote between owned and leased vehicle. Auto insurance payments would be in addition to lease payments and can be substantial for few models. I know people who have decided their vehicle models mainly based on auto insurance quotes.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Firstly, Thanks for your reply Avi. I've gone through your well composed CX-9 thread and felt your thoughts would be helpful with the information I'm looking for.

You're welcome Archer. Since I'm in the region perhaps my suggestions will make more sense.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

He's yet to finalise. With the wide range of cars across segments in US, we're spoilt for choice.
To make matters worse, he is hoping for suggestions from me. I'm not into big fat SUVs and would've preferred between Golf GTI or R and being a FCA fan the Alfa Romeo Guilia Quadrifoglio(if I could afford that is).

Me too not a fan of a fat SUV. I assume you are not married and this being my first ever SUV from the 10 brand new cars that I purchased till date which were all either a sedan or a hatchback was purely due to Wife's insistence that "enough is enough-we need to get an SUV this time. Bored of sedans...LOL !!"

If my wife had cut me loose, I would have brought home a hellcat...Sigh!

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

He's yet to find a home, but that's where he wants to reside.And Just to make it a bit more smaller, My friend and I are Hyderabadis too

Indeed a small world. Now don't add to coincidence and tell me he plans to live in Muirwood??? You can ask him to get in touch with me and happy to help with any other info for a fellow Hydeez.

Where are you based out of?

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Thanks for the valuable insights. Leasing seems to be the best option, provided he's willing to buyback the car or pay for the additional miles he might clock at the end of the leasing period.

Leasing is always the best (IMHO) as cars are highly depreciating assets and you end up losing a lot so lease lets you enjoy a high end brand new car in it's peak period (3 years) at a nominal cost.

Buying is for people who want to retain the car for 7-10 years. If you look at my car buying history, I have never kept a car beyond 3-4 years.

Another Simple analogy of Lease vs Buy .
Lets take an example of BMW X3 ($52,000).

Lease Payment (Approx) : $550/Month.
After 3 Years it's residual value : ~ $30,000 (If you wish to buy).

Total Cash outgo : $2000 (Advance when Leased) + $19,800 ($550 X36) + $30,000 = $53,600.

Buy : $700/month for 84 months (If you are lucky otherwise maximum they give till the visa is valid or 5 years which means the monthly payment will go up to $900/month for 60 months).

I hope this gives you the drift of overall costing between both these options. I would recommend him to get the lease as he can still buy the car at the end of the lease period but, he needs to be careful of what "residual value" the dealership puts in the agreement. Thumb-rule is "Lower the better".

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

He will be reporting to work from Monday, through a consultant. Would that still qualify him to get Employee discount? Is December a good time for additional discounts in US, as is generally the case in India?

I doubt if he is contract worker he will get the benefits. This option is only for FTE's. But, let me double check with a friend who is an FTE at GM and will let you know as he got a Traverse recently.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Thank You for details. This will help him plan his finances accordingly.I'm yet to understand his budget for the car, which will help shortlist the best ones to choose from with the features you have recommended. I will keep you posted.

Again a simple budgeting rule for newbies in US (again these numbers will vary depending on their income potential).

Lease : $30,000-$50,000 is affordable.
Buy : I personally not recommend a car >$30,000.

Originally Posted by vj123

I have spent quite a bit of time in Lincoln MKX (Nautilus). Those vehicles are luxurious and has a premium interior with good amount of features. In general, its targeted towards old people who needs a plush ride.

Agree. I did not want to mention but, Lincoln's are also bought mostly by white Caucasians (Have an Indian friend and an Indian client - Both are exceptions...LOL) and as you rightly mentioned older people.

Originally Posted by vj123

In his case, buying might be a better option as he will easily overshoot 15k miles per year (max mileage option in a lease)

Buying for a newbie in US will be really expensive especially since he has set his heart on a Lincoln.

With buy option, IMO, it will be tough to go beyond the Accord, Camry, Fusion levels.

Originally Posted by vj123

Dealers can manipulate customers very easily with any lease. Most dealers would not share money factor and residual of a lease and this makes it really difficult to understand the deal. They would try to convince the customer with monthly payments which is a terrible way of buying any vehicle.

Totally agree. Negotiation should be hard or walk away.

Originally Posted by vj123

I have not heard huge difference in auto insurance quote between owned and leased vehicle. Auto insurance payments would be in addition to lease payments and can be substantial for few models. I know people who have decided their vehicle models mainly based on auto insurance quotes.

There is no difference between lease or buy option. It will be exactly same.
Btw, another point to note is if you add a 2nd driver on the same car the insurance shoots up by nearly $60/month.....Ridiculous.

[aah78]

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

1. For reason unknown to me, he likes the Lincoln MKC. How does it fare against the competition and what are the alternatives available. Get a Used Car or New?

2. He wants to go for lease option, around Dec. However, he plans to reside in Farmington hills, which I believe is about 25miles to Dearborn. Would leasing allow such high mile munching he’ll do?

4. For the chills and Snow that Detroit throws, I suggested AWD and Heated Seats to be the top priorities. What other features should he be looking into for a comfortable and safe ride?

If your buddy is leasing, then get a new car. If he's buying (financing), get a used car - will be a better deal.

If he's going to use it primarily for a 5-day work commute & local trips to grocery stores, etc. then a 15000mile lease will be more than sufficient.
If he's planning on multiple long distance road-trips, then you can get high mile leases (18-20k miles), which will be priced higher.
If he does a few 1000 miles over his lease mileage, it's not a big deal.

Originally Posted by 21Archer84

Sorry for the noob question. Would there be any difference with Insurance in case of Lease against full payment purchase?

Considering he's a new driver, his insurance will be on the higher side. Play insurance companies against each other to get a better (lower) rate.

Originally Posted by mobike008

I did not want to mention but, Lincoln's are also bought mostly by white Caucasians (Have an Indian friend and an Indian client - Both are exceptions...LOL) and as you rightly mentioned older people.

Btw, another point to note is if you add a 2nd driver on the same car the insurance shoots up by nearly $60/month.....Ridiculous.

First comment is simply not true.

2nd driver on insurance typically does not raise monthly premiums unless the 2nd driver is a new driver (teenager) &/or has driving offenses on record.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by aah78

First comment is simply not true.

Maybe. But, I'm a keen observer and that has been my observation. At least here in the mid-west

Originally Posted by aah78

2nd driver on insurance typically does not raise monthly premiums unless the 2nd driver is a new driver (teenager) &/or has driving offenses on record.

Speaking from experience so not sure how to haggle to bring this additional cost down?

[vj123]

Originally Posted by mobike008

Maybe. But, I'm a keen observer and that has been my observation. At least here in the mid-west

Except Navigator, most Lincoln's vehicles are targeted towards old people whos priority is to have luxury & plush ride. This also reflects in Ford's requirements provided to Tier 1 suppliers during their product development as well.

Originally Posted by mobike008

Speaking from experience so not sure how to haggle to bring this additional cost down?

I shop around during every renewal and have had good luck most of the times.