[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by Parth46

Lastly, Rossi didn't even have to summon his godly powers, as others kept crashing around him themselves! No intervention was even needed.

True that, actually.

You don't need Godly powers to know that if you're losing 9 seconds every lap to people on slicks; pitting too late will get you to play catch up to those behind you.

To be honest, intervention was needed. And it was there in writing. His team asked him to pit three laps earlier. He thought he knew better, got it completely wrong and blew his own race. If he had listened to them, he'd have won the race.

The smarter of the lot was crash-happy, elbow scraping, showboating, lucky, rash, reckless, dangerous, Marquez. He saw the drying line, saw the shredding tyres on the bikes ahead of him and knew it was time to pit. He pitted earlier than Rossi and landed at the top step of the podium.

As for those who crashed around him, Scott Redding crashed and still finished ahead of Rossi. Good job by Redding, eh?

[Parth46]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

He thought he knew better, got it completely wrong and blew his own race. If he had listened to them, he'd have won the race.

Completely agree.

Rossi totally blew it today.

He led a major part of the race, only lost the lead due to the bike transitions, and ultimately, the thing that matters, the thing that everyone's playing for - almost doubled his 12 points lead to 23, but what a loser!

It's the rider's call to make these changes (bike swaps et al) based on his understanding at that point. By your logic, Lorenzo "listened" to his crew but still crashed out eh? Tried to force the pace - and look where it got him.

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by Parth46

He led a major part of the race, only lost the lead due to the bike transitions, and ultimately, the thing that matters, the thing that everyone's playing for - almost doubled his 12 points lead to 23, but what a loser!

He almost doubled his lead when he could have more than tripled it.

Sorry, I didn't call him a loser and I don't think he's a loser. He raced brilliantly today. Especially when everyone was tip-toeing around the track. Just got a very important decision wrong.

Originally Posted by Parth46

It's the rider's call to make these changes (bike swaps et al) based on his understanding at that point. By your logic, Lorenzo "listened" to his crew but still crashed out eh? Tried to force the pace - and look where it got him.

Marquez listened to his crew. Position? 1st.
Bradley Smith listened to his crew. Position? 2nd.
Scott Redding listened to his crew. Position? 3rd.

Let's not talk of isolated cases that have nothing to do with the team asking Lorenzo to pit. What happened to Lorenzo could've happened in any race. He pushed too hard when there was no need to do so. He'd have gained at least 8 seconds over Rossi considering Rossi would have to pit sooner or later. He pushed more than was necessary and might have paid the ultimate price - the World Championship.

Slightly OT: I like the concept of not having radios in MotoGP. Leaves a lot more to rider knowledge and experience than just a host of telemetry data. If F1 incorporates the same thing, I am sure you will see races becoming a lot more exciting!

[schakravarthy]

Both the riders choked.. Badly. Rossi, luckily for him, got away with the lesser penalty.

The way I see it- Rossi found the rhythm on the wet tyres and tried to build a sufficient buffer between him and Lorenzo. As he has admitted before, he sees Lorenzo as pretty tough to beat in dry conditions. The strategy did seem to work initially, but Rossi flogged the dead horse a bit too much. Lorenzo under cut Rossi's gameplan and pitted one lap early. This would've upset Rossi's lead in the championship and his morale quite terribly, if only Lorenzo would've kept a cool head. In his quest to build a big gap between himself and the soon-to-pit Rossi, Lorenzo lost the plot, and the bike.

Rossi was actually lucky. If not for the crash, he might've as well seen his lead wiped clean.

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

Sorry, I didn't call him a loser and I don't think he's a loser. He raced brilliantly today. Especially when everyone was tip-toeing around the track. Just got a very important decision wrong.

I don't think so. With Marquez so far behind in the championship standings, all Rossi had to do was mirror Lorenzo's strategy. Now, I don't know if it was Lorenzo staying out that led to Rossi staying out or it was the other way round. Either way, it didn't really matter. As Lorenzo's crash showed, moving to slicks didn't guarantee a win. If you pushed too hard, you could still make mistakes and lose a lot of points. Given the gap between 4th and 5th at the end today (abouts 13s before the last lap if I remember correctly), if Lorenzo hadn't crashed, he and Rossi would've probably been 5th and 6th and Rossi would've lost less points to Lorenzo than if they were 1st and 2nd. Rossi did not have to move to slicks on a still drying track and gamble for 1st unless Lorenzo did so. I think both Rossi and Lorenzo were racing today for the championship, not necessarily the race win.

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

I don't think so. *skip* I think both Rossi and Lorenzo were racing today for the championship, not necessarily the race win.

So, in my understanding, Rossi knowingly stayed out longer and risked his entire race by riding on disintegrating tyres only to get Lorenzo and himself lower down the order because he felt he had fewer points to lose between 5th and 6th than 1st and 2nd. I think this is too much to risk for just four points.

Here's Lorenzo's take on his crash.

“Probably I needed to trust more what the team were saying on the pit board because they were looking at the lap times and everything. But now it's too late and it's not worth complaining because it's done.”

“Maybe you can win if you enter the pits and change to the slicks early, but if you crash [in the wet] you can lose the championship,” he said. “So that's why, knowing that I was second, I waited a little bit to see what Valentino was doing because if we both entered the pits at the same time, with dry tyres, maybe I could be faster than him afterwards.

“But if I entered the pits [before Rossi] and then it started raining I could crash and get injured, or he might win and I'd lose 25 points. For this reason I decided to stay out. Maybe I made a mistake. One of two mistakes today.

“The second mistake was after the second stop. It was very difficult to warm-up the tyre and get used to the feeling again of the slick tyre,” he said. “When Redding passed me so quick I lost a little bit the patience, because I felt I was going too slow and needed to hurry up or they would all catch me.

“That's why for one moment I didn't pay attention that this corner [Turn 15] is a left after many rights. You have to be careful there even in the dry. I didn't pay attention to this factor and I entered too quick for the temperature of the rear tyre. That was the mistake, because if I was a little more patient second or third place would have been mine.”

[mayankk]

How much is the difference in the tyre compounds here vs F1.
When I saw the slow motion shots of VRs front, you could see one side of the tyre literally sending shards of rubber flying all around. And the same for another rider, dont remember who.
I remember seeing something similar happening to Vettel's rear tyre just before it completely went. I was worried something similar may be coming soon here as well.

And now that I bring it up, does anybody recall a tyre blow up during a Motogp race?

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by mayankk

How much is the difference in the tyre compounds here vs F1.

I think F1 has had tyre problems ever since moving to Pirelli. Tyres issues have been unpredictable amidst all the telemetry data that the teams have.

Guess MotoGP tyres are not as unpredictable as F1 tyres. In MotoGP, if the tyre goes, your race is done. In F1, you still have the choice of limping to the pits and getting a new set of tyres and rejoining the race.

So maybe MotoGP tyres are better constructed?

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

So, in my understanding, Rossi knowingly stayed out longer and risked his entire race by riding on disintegrating tyres only to get Lorenzo and himself lower down the order because he felt he had fewer points to lose between 5th and 6th than 1st and 2nd. I think this is too much to risk for just four points.

I think Lorenzo's quote shows exactly what I was saying. They were both racing each other and not the others. I haven't read Rossi's take on the situation, but I guess it won't be much different. Both did not want to make the "mistake" of changing too early. It is easy for us to talk with the benefit of hindsight and live timing screen, but neither of them had any way of knowing exactly how fast riders on slick tires were or indeed if there was any chance of more showers before the end of the race. I am quite sure they would've come in much earlier if they thought they were taking too much risk (in terms of grip) on their wet weather tires.

Rossi had a slight advantage that being ahead in the championship, he did not have to gamble and could afford to wait for Lorenzo to make his move. It was OK for him to finish lower down the field as long as he could keep up with Lorenzo.

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

It is easy for us to talk with the benefit of hindsight and live timing screen

Is there no way these riders can find out where they are and how far behind the next guy is on the field until they cross the start-finish straight?

I mean, some screen at some point of the track? None at all?

I know F1 drivers have this benefit. But none for MotoGP?

[killjoy]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

Is there no way these riders can find out where they are and how far behind the next guy is on the field until they cross the start-finish straight?

I mean, some screen at some point of the track? None at all?

I know F1 drivers have this benefit. But none for MotoGP?

They do glance at the big screen down the start finish straight but at those speeds and with the lag in TV relay, they can only see so much and will have to "Guess"timate the rest.

Like I said in my post yesterday and the discussions going on everywhere, I think Rossi and Lorenzo were playing mind games with each other. At this point, like someone else has said, with 5 races to go, Rossi's only aim will be to maintain/build his lead over Lorenzo without considering what the others are upto. 10th is too big to risk now!!

[ashwin.terminat]

Originally Posted by killjoy

They do glance at the big screen down the start finish straight but at those speeds and with the lag in TV relay, they can only see so much and will have to "Guess"timate the rest.

Like I said in my post yesterday and the discussions going on everywhere, I think Rossi and Lorenzo were playing mind games with each other. At this point, like someone else has said, with 5 races to go, Rossi's only aim will be to maintain/build his lead over Lorenzo without considering what the others are upto. 10th is too big to risk now!!

Thanks for the info.

Yes, hereon, it is purely Rossi's championship to lose. If he can stay on the bike and bring the bike home in every race, he should take home his 10th championship.

From a fan's perspective, I hope the championship goes into the last race with both Rossi and Lorenzo having the same points. Whoever gets more points in that one race will be declared the World Champion. That will be a true test of character and mettle!

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by ashwin.terminat

Is there no way these riders can find out where they are and how far behind the next guy is on the field until they cross the start-finish straight?

I mean, some screen at some point of the track? None at all?

Originally Posted by killjoy

They do glance at the big screen down the start finish straight but at those speeds and with the lag in TV relay, they can only see so much and will have to "Guess"timate the rest.

Also, consider that yesterday Lorenzo and Rossi were racing very close to each other, in changeable conditions. In that situation, I guess they won't really take the time to look up at anything other than the pit boards. I think riders have the luxury of looking up at TV screens only when they have a few seconds gap ahead and behind.

[BlackPearl]

Is there any update on why Rossi delayed the pitstop so much? Could not find anything on the net. He could have easily come first :-(
It is very hard to believe that Rossi could have made such a mistake. There must be something more to than what meets the eye.

[schakravarthy]

Originally Posted by BlackPearl

Is there any update on why Rossi delayed the pitstop so much? Could not find anything on the net. He could have easily come first :-(
It is very hard to believe that Rossi could have made such a mistake. There must be something more to than what meets the eye.

Source: http://m.crash.net/motogp/news/223017/1/rossi-wanted-to-cry-but-important-result.html

Originally Posted by Valentino Rossi

"After it began drying and we had to change the bike again," Rossi confirmed. "It was a difficult decision. For sure for me and Jorge fighting for the championship it is more tricky, more difficult, to try to take the right decision without risking too much.

"I know that if you pit earlier it is better for the result, but more risky. Two laps before I wanted to stop but it was still raining a little on the back straight and I thought if I stop and it starts to rain more, for me the result would be very bad. Also I check a little bit and Jorge was still behind me, so I decide to continue. I stayed out a little bit too much and I lost time during the next two laps."

“I don't think I could have won, because to win today you have to have your mind free from the championship and take risks, especially with slicks on a drying track. Maybe I could have arrived on the podium or in front of Baz. So third or fourth instead of fifth.

"The people who finished in front of me had nothing to lose. Marc was very fast and did the change at the right moment, but for example Smith - who finished second - didn't change tyres. It was a big, big, big gamble! If it had continued to rain he'd have been twelfth and I cannot do that. Also with Redding [third], he crashed earlier in the race and for that reason he changed to slicks. He made the right decision but it came because of a mistake.

"For sure in Misano, in front of all these people and this special atmosphere, arriving on the podium was the target. But, from the other side, with the crash of Jorge, I extend my lead by eleven points and this is the most important thing. For the championship it is a great and important result.”