[Vid6639]

Looking at the video closely from the helicopter view as well as from the camera view from marquez bike it's pretty clear that the first touch was marquez. He put his handle bar into the leg of Rossi after which Rossi leg moved out. Now whether Marquez touching Rossi's leg caused Rossi's foot to slip into Marquez or he did it out of instinct to defend his from coming too close again is debatable. We don't know that as that is only inside Rossi's head.

Marquez did tap him but Rossi made him run wide and slowed down so both are to blame imo.

[Ricci]

As expected, Rossi fanboys are out in droves, defending anything and everything their hero does, no matter how wrong, unethical or desperate.

And Rossi's desperation is surely showing. 5 years with no title for he who's extolled as the greatest of all time ? Fanboys never answered that one - if he's greater than all others, how have 5 years - now 6, passed with no new title won? 3 riders shared 5 championships between them. Neither can the fanboys explain, how is it that a god can have so much difficulty being ahead of lesser riders, mere mortals that they are.

Accusation #1 : Marquez is helping Lorenzo
Why do racers race? To win. They win by accumulating points. As many points as they can. I can't show you list of rules and regulations of Dorna or their contracts, but I'm pretty sure that any rider who throws away points will be scorned and chastised, possibly fired - by their own team and sponsors for letting another rival team get ahead, surely ? Do you really believe Marquez is that dumb , as to throw away points ?

And what motivation does Marquez have to "help" Lorenzo ? A dislike for Rossi ? Pray tell why Marc would dislike Rossi, who he (not anymore, but until Thursday at least) held as an icon and inspiration ? That they're both Spaniards ? Oh, then that explains Iannone's support of Rossi - he's also Italian.

It makes no sense. There is no motive, and certainly not at Philip Island which was before Rossi's public accusation of Marquez helping Lorenzo.

Based on laptimes, Rossi accuses Marquez of slowing him down. That's funny in itself because it's hard to prove. Riders have to manage tyre wear, which means they have to slow down enough to keep tyre wear in check and fast enough to be ahead of the others. Show me one rider who has consistent lap times all through the race, to even half a second.
Neither can Rossi explain why then Marquez overtook Lorenzo if he was trying to help him.

If anything, Marquez's year has been very fluctuating. Sometimes he's very fast and sometimes he's crashing. Indicating that the 2015 setup isn't working as well for Marquez, else he'd be happy to dominate the grid like in 2013, and even if not in contention for the title, after all which rider wouldn't like to score as many points which will surely be brough up during his appraisal ?

Besides, the best answer to such accusations, is to stay out at the front and put such a gap between himself and Rossi, nothing would speak better about how far out of Rossi's reach he is. And I'm sure if he and his ride were in their best form, they would be , like in 2013.


Accusation #2 : Marquez slammed into Rossi
Anyone who rides a bike, will know that physical contact with other riders/bikes, is a high risk factor in crashing. The accusation or implication that Marquez deliberately hit his helmet/shoulder onto Rossi's bike/leg is preposterous, to begin with. It takes a total nitwit to try something this risky, and I honestly don't believe anyone on the grid is that dumb.

From the footage, it is not only visible that Rossi was looking back at Marquez, but he was not accelerating out of the apex as normally would/should be. Instead, he came into Marquez's trajectory, slowing down and pushing Marquez who was already at the edge of the track, on the outside line with the intention to overtake Rossi, accelerating out of the apex - and you can see Marquez move ahead accelerating when Rossi's leg moves to kick him. Looks like Rossi decided to corner Marquez and slow him down, push him to the edge of the track, thinking that is what Marquez is doing to him, instead of accelerating out of the apex as normal racing. Sore loser? Plenty of similar overtake attempts on the outside line, and never seen something like this.

Accusation #3 : Marquez was annoying Rossi
I've seen plenty of races hotly contested for different positions, lots of track rivalry and overtaking/being overtaken , over and over in a race. And not once have I seen a rider kick another rider. Ever.

Was Bradly Smith also annoying Cal Crutchlow ? Was Maverick Vinales also irritating Aleix Espargaro ? It's easy to accuse someone of "playing" and "slowing down" the pace, playing mind games - but hey wait, playing mind games and "getting into a rider's head" is a skill Rossi has been so praised for - looks like Rossi can't get Marquez out of his head now. Poor dear. The doctor gets a taste of his own medicine, and a bitter dose at that.


Amidst all this accusing Marquez of helping Lorenzo, fanboys have not once asked, why is the greatest-of-all-time having such troubles in the first place. Shouldn't he by virtue of his greatness, be out in front, leading the pack by seconds, untouchable, uncatchable ? Oh wait, Pedrosa did just that today.

[Parth46]

Wow, Team ABR (Anyone But Rossi) Racing is out in full force today, enjoying the day in the sun due to the elusive moral high ground and clearly making the most of it.

Thank you for the great crash course in what racing is all about.

No one's defending Rossi, all of us agree that what he did today was wrong.

However, by viewing only the "incident" in isolation, you're clearly exhibiting the same "blinkered vision" you so easily accuse the Rossi fanboys of.

Regarding the "kicking", do once again refer to the innumerable videos from so many angles. People much more capable and experienced than us have already officially cleared that there was no kicking, and duly punished the great man for his wrongdoing.

A poor decision by Rossi, very unlike him, is all it takes to get the daggers out, but since the daggers are now out, he'll have to face them without a choice.

The championship has been handed over to JL on a platter, and this is obviously enough of a penalty to Rossi, so we can leave it at that.

#FORZAVALE.

One final thing - make no mistake, till such a time as VR46 is on the track and racing to the best of his ability, the fanboys will continue to support him no matter what. One bad judgement call is not nearly enough to drown out a career of winning across three decades.

Something "flavor of the season" fanboys will not understand anyway.

Cheers.

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by Parth46

Something "flavor of the season" fanboys will not understand anyway.

Cheers.

Wow, I never thought you'd admit to the polygamous carousel Rossi fanboys - as opposed to mere fans - have got running. I mean, we're not married to them that we have a vow to stick to them through thick and thin. When better riders arrive - or current riders become better, we simply state who's the king of the pack. Reminds of Draupadi and 5 husbands, in reverse.

I notice not one of the questions being answered or explained though about why their pati-parmeshwar is in such perilous state. Just repeated chants of the greatness of the pedestalized god. Exactly how religion works - loads of dogma, no rationale.

[shyn]

Originally Posted by Ricci

As expected, Rossi fanboys are out in droves, defending anything and everything their hero does, no matter how wrong, unethical or desperate.

And Rossi's desperation is surely showing. 5 years with no title for he who's extolled as the greatest of all time ? Fanboys never answered that one - if he's greater than all others, how have 5 years - now 6, passed with no new title won? 3 riders shared 5 championships between them. Neither can the fanboys explain, how is it that a god can have so much difficulty being ahead of lesser riders, mere mortals that they are.

Here's a little something to freshen up your memory about why Rossi is the/one of the GOAT!
Will take a few days to process this information and then a few more to put them in perspective, but please take your own sweet time.

Originally Posted by shyn

Some numbers from the Premier Class:
Rider-Podiums(Wins-2nd-3rd)
1.Rossi-174(86-49-39)
2.Pedrosa-98(27-38-33)
3.Doohan-95(54-31-10)
4.Lorenzo-95(39-38-18)
5.Agostini-88(68-20-0)
6.Lawson-78(31-31-16)
7.Stoner-69(38-11-20)
8.Rainey-64(24-22-18)
9.Biaggi-58(13-26-19)
10.Mamola-54(13-22-19)
Source: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/1...-doohan/187774

Originally Posted by shyn

Another feather in the Doctor's cap!
Rossi is set to become most experienced rider in the history of the World Championships ever at Sepang where he starts his 329th GP (269th premier class start). The previous record holder was Loris Capirossi with 328 starts (217 premier class starts).
-Rossi has taken part in 328 of the 866 grand prix events staged since the start of the world championship series back in 1949. This means that he has taken part in 37.9% of all grand prix events that have taken place
-He has finished in a point scoring position a record 294 times in the 328 GP races that he has started, a rate of 89.6%.
-Rossi has won 112 times from his 328 grand prix starts - a win rate of 34.1 %.
-He has finished on the podium on 210 occasions from his 328 grand prix starts, a rate of 64%.
Just imagine how much better the numbers would have been had he not left for Ducati for two full seasons!
Source: http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/1...-sepang/187771

(Screenshots via Wikipedia- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentino_Rossi#Records)

[Parth46]

Originally Posted by Ricci

I mean, we're not married to them that we have a vow to stick to them through thick and thin. When better riders arrive - or current riders become better, we simply state who's the king of the pack. Reminds of Draupadi and 5 husbands, in reverse.
Exactly how religion works - loads of dogma, no rationale.

Oh really? well that finally explains why it has never been conclusively established whether the lovers of the "sport" and not the pedestalized god are JLO fanboys, MM fanboys, Stoner fanboys, or whether there is any loyalty at all, hence the "flavor of the season".

My mythological concepts might be a bit rusty, but perennially swinging from one to another is what the draupadi reference is more aptly suited to, not the other way round.

[badri]

I've been following Motogp and Formula1 from early 90's (yes, even before they were being broadcasted in India). Initially it was more of F1 but slowly Motogp became my first passion and now I don't watch F1 any more.

I've always supported Yamaha and even during the most difficult times for my favourite team, I've never skipped watching the races. My love for the sport is defenitely bigger than for the team.

For the first time ever, I don't feel like watching the next race. Yes, I support Lorenzo and yes, he may become the world champion at Valencia. But after yesterday's incident, I don't have the enthusiasm anymore.

Why? Firstly, the dirty racing I saw yesterday from Marquez.. he definitely had an agenda to scuttle Rossi's chances of WC. Despite the glances and gestures by Rossi, it continued. It is too low for a double WC to swoop to. Secondly, he was not penalized due to the fact that he was playing within the rules. If rules allow this kind of sabotage, then the rule book definitely needs to be rewritten.

As much as I support Lorenzo, I would have preferred a straight fight between him and Rossi. Being a Rossi supporter few years ago, it pains me to see him in such a helpless situation. Sure, what he did is not right, but the circumstances which led to that were not right too.

At this juncture, I take back my comments that Marc was not supporting Lorenzo in PI. At that time, I really believed that Rossi was being overboard with his allegations. This is a very dark time for the sport I love.

[wolfy]

So the gloves are off!!
No wait! The Masks are off.
Marq wonder boy marquez! Smiling like the innocent teenager waiting for his first kiss, was "surprised" with Rossi's allegations that he is slowing Rossi down. "No no, i respect Vale!" Sure you do! The "fans of the sport" could clearly see you struggling to "win" the Sepang race! Letting lorenzo through to get to Rossi and then keep Rossi engaged while Lorenzo flies away doing what he does best, when he is unchallenged ofcourse!

No, i do not expect the rest of the grid to sit it out when Rossi "takes" "his" championship! But please, race like Pedrosa (what a champ!) and win! Race like Iannone, and win! Don't screw around with someone who is fighting for the championship (his 10th! at the fag end of his career(?) ).

Now why would innocent Marq do such a thing? Coz the 2 time champion obviously would have to win 7 more championships to be the better than Rossi! Ha! Maybe he would win 20 championships! But sorry, Marq will never be the people's champ!

Lorenzo on the other hand! What a sport eh? howling and hooting outside race direction! "demanding" his challenger be given a harsher penalty! Must be really satisfying to "win" that championship this way! Lord Farkwad.

PS: Glad Rossi still shows the Finger to the so called "challengers". This is far from over! MotoGp just became IPL.

Cheers!
"Fan of the sport"
"Blind Rossi Fanboy"

[Sheel]

Some thoughts by a gent, Jason Lewis. Don't have the source of this article, was found on Facebook.

Makes sense.

I've resisted jumping into the fray for some time trying to resist the knee jerk reaction, as I watched the race live. I knew that I was going to need lots of additional information to make an informed opinion. Finally lots of good slow mo and technical explanation are now available from all involved parties. I'm going to ignore idiotic and abusive responses - for now.

A few key points here to discuss (as impartial as possible

My problem is race direction is terribly unclear and appears to contradict itself.

1 Marquez denies trying to slow Rossi down on purpose, however race direction does not agree and believes he did exactly that. This confirms Rossi's statements at the Thursday pre event press conference. However, this IS NOT against the rules. They concluded that BOTH riders are at fault, per Mike Webb. They penalise one, despite "both" being "at fault."

2 Rossi performs a wide block pass (which is allowed) then waits for Marquez to get off the line, which he never does. Marquez initially pauses, stands the bike up - Rossi confirms this with a glance and waits - Marquez does not yield to the block - Rossi checks his own line briefly and then back to Marquez again - again Marquez does not yield to the block. Rossi finally abandons the block and continues into the turn - almost simultaneously Marquez creates contact by throttling into Rossi's bike making contact with the left leg. Briefly after, Marquez crashes. There are multiple slow motion video available to substantiate this fact.

3 Race direction says there is no conclusive video evidence to support either riders claim of intention, pertaining to the "kick" despite the fact that substantial slow mo video is readily available across the internet showing Marquez creating contact and Rossi shaking off the contact; both events with eyes forward (not looking at Marquez.) This is significant because it shows intent/no intent. And it shows who actually created contact. It also shows Rossi shook of the contact by opening his hip, and slightly appearing to push. At this exact moment, Marquez front tire washes out and not at the initial moment of contact. Rossi could not have known he was pushing against Marquez's handlebar, because he was not looking at neither Marquez nor his handlebar. Race direction simply gets this wrong because they penalise the rider for irresponsible riding (creating contact and forcing another rider wide - the latter, which is NOT against the rules) and not for the "kick." They got the wrong rider for contact and block passing is actually not illegal. Whether or not pushing blindly against contact with an appendage (arm, elbow, leg) is illegal, needs to be clarified and if so, needs to be penalised.

4 Marquez was not penalised despite creating the contact and BOTH riders deemed to be at fault.

5 And finally, Lorenzo made an ILLEGAL pass under yellow and needs to be penalised.

Conclusion:

1 Unpopular as it may sound, either penalty points for Rossi should stand, with equal penalty for Marquez (3 points to the race licence and start from the back of the grid) or the whole event reevaluated under the actual factual evidence - Marquez creating contact- and interpretation to the rule pertaining to a blind push/kick reaction to contact - and a reissue of more/less points to each rider.

2 Lorenzo penalised 1 grid position for passing under a yellow flag.

[mayankk]

What do they say about the best defense and a good offense?



However, the chamionship has more or less been gift wrapped. The stenciller is waiting with L,O,R,E,N,Z letters in his hands. The appeal has been denied.

http://www.cyclenews.com/710/40601/R...i-Penalty.aspx

[b16h22]

I seriously doubt the intentions of certain 'motoGP fans' in this thread. I'm not a blind 46 supporter. I love dani, used to like jorge, and i used to admire the shear talent and charisma of MM. But am i blind to what happened yesterday? no. It was pure manipulation of world championship by Marc. Anyone with a little bit of common sense can see what he did there in sepang and playing the victim card afterwards. The whole GP world has the same opinion. Even the race direction agreed that he was purposefully slowing down but it was within the rules.

I don't agree with Rossi's move pushing MM wide but if you have at least watched the race you can easily understand the motive behind. They were simply not going to make the upcoming laps. MM had nothing to lose and he was going take down VR with him. Troy Bayliss agrees with me. This is not sportsmanship or even hard racing. And if someone still believes VR kicked marc, he needs better specs.

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Sheel

1 Marquez denies trying to slow Rossi down on purpose, however race direction does not agree and believes he did exactly that.
=============
2 Lorenzo penalised 1 grid position for passing under a yellow flag.

I came to type out a post and this one just summarizes beautifully! i was searching for the "term" yesterday when a friend who is into tracks mentioned "block pass". Block pass is absolutely legal, i have seen it many times in the last 2 decades or so, used in all type of track races, in this case Rossi's execution was not perfect. Maybe he wanted to get an eye contact and give a piece of his mind

I don't know how many of you watched the post race video, it clearly shows how shallow Jorge Lorenzo is when it comes to this matter. He was showering Rossi with all sorts of character abuses. When he was asked about the yellow flag, he retorts how does it matter? and if it matter to you, congratulations to you. To the reporter.

I lost all respect to JL after that.

He maybe competing with team mate for championship but you don't take such cheap shots, especially when he claims he has just seen one clip of the event.

I feel this decision is totally biased, it should have been equal amount of punishment to both Rossi and Marq AND a big one to Jorge also! Then it would be fair!

Marq if he is going to continue with such tantrums is gonna mess the sport up. Hope he got some sense knocked into his over enthused brains.

Like someone said, there are certain un-written etiquette's on a track.. which includes, not coming in the way of championship fights, esp if you don't have anything at stake towards it!

[Parth46]

Now that the dust is settling, glad that folks are more willing to move on from yesterday's knee-jerk reaction and treat this as what it is - a travesty to the sport we all love, even though in different ways.

Our gods might be different, but we all are lovers of the thrills and chills that racing at the highest level gives us, bar none.


This is just a blatant, gross and obvious manipulation from that wonder kid, that arrogant, pampered, entitled, so-called future GOAT - Marc Marquez.

Valentino Rossi has not gone crazy at the ripe old age of 36! He's not one to go off his rocker and make baseless allegations against all and sundry.

This is a fiercely fought title race, but heck, this is not the first or the only title race Rossi has been in. He's been there, done that. He's won more championships than the majority of the grid combined!

Somebody really needs to smack one to MM right below the ear before he takes the sport down with him in all his innocent tomfoolery.

Agree with wolfy's every word - don't care if he ends up with 50 world titles, he'll never be the people's champ.

The "team-mate's" behavior is even more baffling.

This is not the title that Jorge Lorenzo won.
This is the title that was stolen from Valentino Rossi.
This is the title that Marc Marquez won for Jorge Lorenzo.

This title is forever tainted now, and more power to Lorenzo if this is the title he wants.

[Sheel]

I too fail to understand as to why has Lorenzo been so vocal about all this? See how Dani has presented himself?

Lorenzo is fast, is clinical but his choice of words don't make him a champion of masses.

And let us not speculate on the future, let it run its own course.

[killjoy]

I didnt want to post earlier until Monday morning when everyone gets busy with work and cools down

I have said somewhere before in this very same thread, for me, the best riders, in order, are - Mick Doohan, Valentino Rossi and Marc Marquez.

I watched the race 2 times completely and the incident at least 50 times so far. I have two views on the matter -

1. Before the incident when MM and VR are fighting, there are two times when VR has a moment and both times his legs come off the peg. MM is not close at the time but because of the incident MM makes up the gap and comes close to Rossi. Both the times, Rossi gives a look to MM and in fact the second time, he also gestures to him. If someone has the recording of the race, please watch it. At this point, I think Rossi has mistakenly assumed that MM is causing him issues.

2. At the incident - Rossi wants Marc to loose time and get away from him and take a wide line hoping that MM will go into the dusty section and then Rossi can accelerate away. Unfortunately, MM is a younger Rossi who is just hot headed and is intent on fighting with Rossi. He tries to go into the line even with Rossi's bike in the middle and bangs into him, not once but twice. With any other rider, this would have probably scared the other rider but Rossi being who he is, is not fazed and does not move. This causes the kid to fall off and learn a very valuable lesson who who not to f#$% with.

I am still wondering if I should admire the sheer talent of MM after Rossi retires or let this incident keep me away from him, time will tell.....

Go Rossi.......