[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Parth46

C'mon Killjoy - don't be a killjoy mate! If the numbers show Lorenzo is God, Stoner is the almighty, and Marquez is so untouchable that it needn't even be mentioned, who are we to question that! Wikipedia hath spoken, 9 titles, and awesome racing be damned!

In my mind's eye, I see one curly blond haired pasta and meatball munching racing God on one side.

And facing him in battle over 20 years I see an arrayed phalanx of different generations of warrior men.

And he keeps swatting them away. At 330 kmph.

The irony of this is probably lost on some people.

Those who ACTUALLY ride know how your pace drops with age. So you have a guy in his late 30s beating guys barely into their 20s. Stop for a moment to imagine what he would do to them were he 15 years younger ..... Moto GP would probably be like F1.

So arrayed against the God is not just an army of Men, but Father Time. And we all know how easy it is to beat him.

[ebonho]

Lovely interview with Rossi by MCN where he talks about Stoner, the young crop, and how they differ from the old guys he started racing with, about Marc and how he's more like him than Stoner, Jorge, Pedrosa, about Simoncelli, his private life, his dad, about growing old, his insecurities and ambitions, about Ducati, about getting married and having kids, about wanting to race till 40, winning another championship.

Just don't understand why the volume is so bad, or is it just my computer. Anyways, its too good to miss, so wanted to share it here. The human side of racing, and of a God.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDSYSjpL22E

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lu2sF3Lv074

Part 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHqkHwySU5s

Riveting stuff.

[JayKis]

Sadly a 9 time champ has an extremely long way to go for being a 15 time champ. He would need to win every race for 3 years without fail as well. He would have to win 7 championships on the trot. Not happening in the wildest dreams of any one. He could never be the greatest to walk on God's green earth.

GOD is the one who has control over everything but if GOD cannot beat lesser GODs, how good of a GOD is he?

So the fact is Rossi cant match Agostini in terms of the "GOD" factor. But then does he have to is the question? He has twice the number of fans (claimed) and in order to keep their bragging rights, he has to! That is the conundrum.

Fanboys helps fill up discussion forums. Create chatter.
They bring 9 knives to every race. Doesnt matter.

Every race is a standalone race and no one cares about the baggage that the racers bring on the race day. When the lights go out it doesnt matter if you are a 15-time, 9-time, 2-time or no-time. But you better be on a factory ride and the right tyres.

So who is the GOD? The rider or the factories or the tyres?

[mayankk]

The marquez/barros/toner/lozenge butter knives fell, so now let's go back aaaaaaaallll the way to agostini..
Must have been good, and acknowledged, just like the genius of bradman. But tendulkar is still tops, cos he's been seen.


If only someone had thrown doohan, I'd have been in two minds. But not for monkeys who ride into the sand when jostled.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by mayankk

The marquez/barros/lozenge butter knives fell, so now let's go back aaaaaaaallll the way to agostini..
If only someone had thrown doohan, I'd have been in two minds. But not for monkeys who ride into the sand when jostled.

Classic! A better riposte evades me (for the moment).

Clutching at straws comes to mind. Not so much by drowning men as men who're frankly out of their depth. Up the creek without a paddle.

Push the discussion further along and we'll probably be escorted back all the way to the Wright brothers ......

Back on topic, incidentally when given the option of traveling back in time, Rossi's first wish (probably top of mind recall "regret") was to go back to the meat of the 500 era and deuce it out with the greats of that time.

His second was to go back to the 60s and 70s because life was "simpler and more fun" then. (read what you want into it .... )

Such is the man. Nay, God.

[JayKis]

So the past aint no glory? Aint it to be all hunky dory?
Nah, unless you aint Rossi. None so if you are an Aussie.

The Past: Last 10 years of Motogp. 2002-2012. (All credits to Cycle World)
http://www.cycleworld.com/2012/11/01...acing-history/

"MotoGP began with great fanfare and high expectations. Because of the magical words “four-stroke,” many believed a flood of Formula One-like money would pour into the series, big teams would materialize from thin air and all would be sweetness and light.
Fortunately, the rapid decrease in lap times distracted people from what would otherwise have been disillusion. Four-strokes, with their ability to deliver modulated power from first throttle movement, allowed riders to begin acceleration much sooner than they had been able with the more brutal two-stroke 500s. Lap records fell and have been falling ever since.
Honda, whose 2002 RC211V prototype had been nearly unrideable in early testing, fought back to dominate the field with smooth, controllable power. Yamaha and Suzuki battled self-imposed demons as they struggled with ambitious clutch/throttle/shift systems. Engine braking was a new problem, causing many crashes as dragging back wheels slid, lost direction and began to oscillate violently side-to-side.
Ducati shocked the hierarchy by arriving in the series with high power and top speed in 2003, putting both of its bikes on the front row at Jerez, getting a second at Mugello and winning at the fourth event in Barcelona.


Valentino Rossi, feeling undervalued at hardware-centered Honda (our bikes win races, not our riders), went to Yamaha for 2004. Honda replied to Ducati’s power with more of its own, making the RC-Vs harder on tires and harder to ride, thereby helping Rossi to a third MotoGP title.
Forks in the road are often unseen. Dorna, concerned over the cost of tires, sought to limit them to 18 fronts and 24 rears per rider, per event, but Michelin temporized. Dorna pushed, and the agreement became 14 fronts/17 rears to be chosen on the Thursdays before events.
To soften the new class’s rush to power, fuel allowance was cut from 24 liters to 22 for 2005. Ride-by-wire systems were coming in, and electronics were proliferating under the dual needs of 1) softening the natural harshness of the powered-up engines now necessary to be competitive; and 2) monitoring and controlling fuel use. By the fifth race, Mugello, it had been decided to cut engine displacement for 2007 to 800cc. As so often with so many past racing classes, the cry was “Too fast! Too Powerful!” How could we know that in just a few years, that pendulum would swing the other way, back to 1000cc.


Another important development of 2005 was Ducati’s switch to Bridgestone tires. Bridgestone had previously funded a 500cc test team to prepare its entry to MotoGP, and Ducati made the commitment. Bridgestone, its factories far from Europe, had to aim its technology at developing tires with a wider performance range. Michelin went the other way, raising performance by narrowing operating range. This would be a crucial accident of history.


The following year brought more disturbances from tire development. At the end of 2005, Honda was out of traction—its bikes spun instead of going forward. Michelin replied with an even bigger, lower-pressure, softer-carcass rear that laid down an unprecedented footprint. Honda initially found chatter with this tire but overcame it. Yamaha’s early tests on the tire went well, but suddenly there was chatter that did not respond to its strongest countermeasures. At the first GP, Jerez, there were no Michelins on the front row. Bridgestone performance was not yet uniform; they performed best on high-grip tracks.


New riders were arriving: Dani Pedrosa, Casey Stoner and Chris Vermeulen. The smoothed power delivery of the latest engines was, it was believed, making it almost too easy for ex-250cc GP men to get up to speed on the 990s. No one really wanted to say it, but pundits were nostalgic for the 500s’ constant sliding, spinning and crashing. Electronics worked both ways: At the French round, Rossi’s electronics shut down his Yamaha’s engine.
With Rossi’s early season slowed by chatter, and with fast Ducati men Loris Capirossi and Sete Gibernau injured in a collision, it was Nicky Hayden on a Honda who found himself able to lead the points and win the 2006 title.

That same season also revealed threats to the size of the MotoGP grid. Kenny Roberts’ V-Five refused to make the planned power, eventually sending the team to KTM and Honda for alternate engines. The underlying fact? MotoGP was just too rich for minor players. Aprilia had fielded the “Cube”—basically three cylinders of an F-1 engine. Though it was very fast, it could not get around the circuits. Again, the same story: Good ideas are plentiful. Not so plentiful are the heavy resources needed to make them work.
Another trend toward higher power dragged the no-exotic-technologies gentleman’s agreement into the mud of reality. Aprilia began with pneumatic valves, Suzuki adopted them, and clearly, anyone seeking competitive power would eventually have them. But that would not be easy for either Honda or Yamaha.


In 2007, the new 800s had less power but the same weight. And with sharp recent increases in tire side-grip from both Michelin and Bridgestone, corner speeds were up. With the reduced displacement came a smaller, 21-liter fuel allowance. If you wanted to make a fast lap time, you had to ride for corner speed with highest accuracy. Wheelspin, beloved by spectators, had been eliminated by the 21-liter rule. This made passing much more difficult, as there was only one fast line and no possibility of making up for mistakes with handfuls of throttle. Was the 21-liter rule a misguided example of “green washing” from Dorna? No, it was proposed by the MSMA (Motorcycle Sports Manufacturers’ Association), which many people believe is mainly Honda.
Casey Stoner, who had spent 2006 losing the front end on a LCR Honda, found his new Ducati ride workable. Lots of things were said about him—mostly that Ducati’s new Ferrari-inspired electronics allowed him to “just snap open the grip and let the system handle it.” His Bridgestone tires had also matured, and Ducati’s engine-smoothing systems offered a new menu of controllability. Later, Stoner would say, “You have to ride each bike as it has to be ridden.” Partly, this was a dig at classical riders who worked over their bikes to suit their own styles. Partly, it was a bald statement of fact. If a bike pushes the front, you have to kick the back loose, Kenny Roberts-style, to make it steer. Stoner made this look easy and rode away from the opposition.

“Emergent properties” is a term used by evolutionists to describe novel results of an evolutionary line—results unpredictable from original conditions. Bridgestone’s concentration on wide range and Michelin’s upon narrow now essentially separated riders of each into distinct groups. When the Michelins worked, they performed incredibly well, leaving the Bridgestone riders behind. When Michelin missed the mark (resoundingly at Laguna Seca and Misano), they were useless. The result was no longer competition but rather taking turns.
Valentino Rossi now wanted/needed to be on Bridgestones, and Dorna, respecting his importance to ticket sales, told the tire maker, “Provide tires to Rossi or face the possibility that we will adopt Michelin as a spec tire in MotoGP.” Such wrangling is survival-related and has nothing to do with abstractions, such as fairness. Business is business.

By Assen, Rossi was noticing another tire development: Tires no longer “went off” after 15 laps of hard racing, making the last 10 laps a virtuoso’s contest of staying upright on greasy rubber. Riders could now race almost to the finish line.
By Brno, Yamaha’s pneumatic-valve engine was nearly ready to do something about its power deficit. With metal valve springs now being required to rev to 18,000, the 12mm valve lift desirable for best flow had to be reduced to 9mm, which slowed acceleration. At Misano, Yamaha’s pneumatic engine disappointed by failing. At Motegi, Dorna’s Carmelo Ezpeleta formally proposed a single-tire rule. Why? As things were, tires were interfering with competition, not improving it. Stoner was 2007 champion on a Ducati.

In 2008, people expected Stoner to repeat, and at Qatar, he duly won by 5.5 seconds. Then, a new throttle system interfered at Jerez, and an on-board camera processor came loose and clattered about his dashboard at Estoril. With fixes, he then won at Donington, Assen and Sachnsenring but was dramatically defeated by Rossi at Laguna. Yamaha had fought back energetically in electronics, making its bike notably smooth and stable. Stoner fell while leading at Brno and Misano but came back to win two of the last three races. Honda seemed to be satisfied to alternate between having handling without power and power without handling, giving a feeling of corporate disorganization.
At Brno, Honda held three meetings to pressure Michelin for a schedule of remedies. When nothing definite emerged, Pedrosa was soon on Bridgestones. Honda did not take this action lightly, having been Michelin “partners” since 1982.
Another wild element entered the mix as Ducati engineer Filipo Preziosi revealed the carbon-fiber combined airbox/forward chassis that the company planned to run in 2009. Integrating functions and eliminating the former multi-tube steel “trellis” chassis tremendously increased stiffness and reduced weight.

Just before season’s end, Dorna made the single-tire rule law. Ezpeleta then demonstrated his famous conceptual flexibility. In 2003, he had stated that MotoGP must remain a series distinguished by factory prototypes. But now, in 2008, he announced that a spec-engine class could also be called “prototypes.” The future Moto2, the planned replacement of 250 GP, would consist of identical sealed production-based engines powering “prototype chassis.” All skilled politicians know the value of a snappy new name in selling the second-rate.
Hoped-for sponsors melted away in 2008’s world recession. BMW decided to enter World Superbike, as it was already getting adequate value from involvement of its cars in MotoGP. KTM decided to leave 250 GP. Kenny Roberts remained only as a “Cheshire cat grin” of a few expensive swingarms. All these developments weighed upon Ezpeleta, whose job was to “make the farm pay.” Serious business.
Rossi was champion again in 2008, Yamaha having given him much-improved tools.

At the 2009 season opener in Qatar, the new spec-engined Moto2 class was announced. After some back-and-forth among Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha, and Honda emerged by the third race as the no-charge provider of 600cc-based engines making “at least 150 hp.” Power was backpedaled more than once, ending up at about 125 hp, considerably south of World Supersport (140 hp).
Some proposals went nowhere. Ezpeleta had the logically sensible but operationally clumsy idea that if riders were limited to one bike each, twice as many machines would exist by which to repopulate the grid. At the German GP, he floated the idea of “CRTs”—Moto2-like, second-level MotoGP bikes to be powered by production-based engines put into “prototype chassis.” He was persistently seeking ways to reverse grid shrinkage even if it might mean two races in one: a fast race of prototypes, followed by a slow race of CRTs.
Saving money might save teams, so the usual four one-hour practices were to be cut to three 45-minute sessions. As a means of working up to limited engine availability, MotoGP riders would get only five engines each from Brno onward. Testing was also cut. Various new technologies available in the showroom were made illegal, including electronic suspension units, dual-clutch transmissions and variable valve timing.
From the outside, this looked arbitrary. From the inside, each measure was seen as essential to team and series survival. At Laguna, there were only 12 finishers—not a reassuring message to sponsors.
Jorge Lorenzo’s remarkable successes angered Rossi, who felt he had developed the YZR-M1 for his own use, yet now, “I am doing it for my worst enemy.”

With tires as large as they had become, two new issues appeared. First, having so much surface area, the tires cooled rapidly if not pushed hard by the rider—perhaps enough to lose significant grip. Crashes were attributed to this. Second, the first laps were crucial: A rider like Stoner could push hard, not fall and gain a substantial advantage from getting his tires hot early. Others couldn’t get their tires hot no matter what they did (and some of these riders left MotoGP for World Superbike because of it).
In 2009, Rossi won six races and the title, Lorenzo and Stoner four each and Pedrosa two. At Valencia, the season’s end, Ducati team manager Livio Suppo announced his move to Honda. Speculation was that his “fund-raising” skills were Honda’s motivation, but later chat suggested his move was preparation for bringing over Stoner.

More frights: In 2010, three races had only 15 starters. Dorna pressured manufacturers to lease more bikes and at lower prices. This failed when teams couldn’t afford what manufacturers said they had to charge.
At Mugello, Rossi broke his leg, giving the series a taste of what a future without him might be like. The crash was attributed to the left side of his tire having cooled. At Laguna, it was said that 20,000 extra spectators bought tickets only when they learned that Rossi would after all be present. This is the business of racing.
Stoner crashed several times because of lack of front-end feel in his carbon-chassis Ducati. Carbon had been a logical step, as Stoner had commented that “You can’t hit the same place on the track two laps running” with the old steel trellis chassis. This was despite its desirable lateral flexibility, leading to “Ducati wallow,” a kind of slow in-corner oscillation. Of it, Colin Edwards said in 2002, “Yeah, they wallow. But they dig in and turn.” The precision required by the new tires and the tremendous forces they generated required greater stiffness. Yet that very stiffness robbed the rider of essential feel, the warning that the grip limit is near.
Lorenzo made hay, meanwhile, winning nine races and the title. Pedrosa’s Honda looked almost graceful by the Indianapolis round, a new development team under Shuhei Nakamoto finally getting increased engine power under real control. Honda had emerged from disorganization.
Stoner’s move to Honda made 2011 just as impressive as his ’07 season had been. Here was a consistent tool he could rely on as he applied his skilled improvisational riding. No one could equal him.
Rossi, now on Ducati, went nowhere, as neither he nor teammate Hayden could find a way to overcome understeer and lack of front-end feel. Ducati dithered, unwilling to test the possible negative sales effect of racing a bike that did not have its traditional 90-degree cylinder angle. Yet a more compact engine seemed part of what was needed.
At Valencia, Ezpeleta revealed in an interview on Spanish TV that there will be a control ECU in 2012, a rev limit in 2013 and that, if necessary, he will give the CRT teams three extra liters of fuel beyond the 24 they now have. In addition, Dorna will cease the practice of subsidizing the bike lease payments of satellite teams.
Because the management contract between Dorna and the MSMA has come to an end (largely because of Dorna’s disgust at MSMA’s unwillingness to come up with means of keeping existing teams in MotoGP or of attracting new ones), Ezpeleta now intends to manage racing on his own. He says he plans in two years that grids will be 100 percent CRT bikes—no more super-expensive prototypes.
Japanese racing managers learned of these new developments at Valencia only through Spanish journalists who had heard the TV interview. The result was polite dismay (“We hope this is not so…”).
The problem for Dorna now will be to somehow avoid giving the impression that its planned CRT future for MotoGP will be “old clunker Superbike engines stuck into Moto2 frames.” If Grand Prix racing is to continue to attract top sponsors and major spectator interest, it must somehow preserve its former cachet of exclusivity. Otherwise, it will decline into being just another production-based series.
Shall we call it Petit Prix?

[Urban_Nomad]

I love Rossi interviews. He seems like a genuine guy and does not skirt questions or tries to be diplomatic. I really like that. Here's another one thats fun to watch:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sGRXnbQPh4

Too bad Marquez will defeat him to become the world champion again (hides for cover)

Originally Posted by killjoy

For all your scientific analysis, Rossi has a fan following that is twice the size of anyone else riding currently or the past. Leave the statistics aside man, Rossi is a player and he has the gift.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnndd some more statistics. Bravo sire!!

Aaa

[ebonho]

What is noteworthy about most of these guys is that they are really good motocross riders as well. And do a lot of that off season.

Much like most top cyclists like Lance Armstrong are very good mountain bikers and do a lot of that in their off-seasons.

Rossi has spent a career proving its the rider and not the bike.

Obviously that does not go down well with the industry and sponsors. Hence walls of text like above are common on paid sites that survive off the same.

In the end, its the rider that rides the bike to the crown. And there is one rider out there with a lot of crowns.

[Parth46]

Originally Posted by mayankk

The marquez/barros/toner/lozenge butter knives fell, so now let's go back aaaaaaaallll the way to agostini..
Must have been good, and acknowledged, just like the genius of bradman. But tendulkar is still tops, cos he's been seen.


If only someone had thrown doohan, I'd have been in two minds. But not for monkeys who ride into the sand when jostled.

You sir, have won the internet for today.

Seriously, what's with the barrage of text man? Who reads this stuff and do we really NEED all of this to pull down someone revered by millions?

I really think it's getting ridiculous now and there are people copying, pasting stuff for the heck of it. At least the rest of us are taking the time and making the effort to share our own thoughts, fears and beliefs, not ctrl-C, ctrl-V from some website that conducts these deep-dives.

Phew!

So I guess the crux of the matter is that the entire universe has conspired to make Rossi win so much and be loved so much, the guy really had no talent and no business being in MotoGP.

It's a combination of electronics, luck, other riders, factories, capirossi, barros, Jeremy Burgess, stoner, lorenzo,marquez, agostini, rain, sun, circuits, Dorna, Obama and Modi who've all HATCHED a grand plan to christen him the CHOSEN ONE! I mean seriously, give me a break dude! and take one yourself. Chill.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by ebonho

What is noteworthy about most of these guys is that they are really good motocross riders as well. And do a lot of that off season

Excellent!!!!

Only a veteran rider with a good few years of experience could have brought this up. I cannot agree with you more doc

I think riding off road (even though mild like gravel / fire roads) makes you an immensely better street rider; and I am trying to do just that

Here's another video I love. Nicky Hayden on a Su-Mo; drifting AND dragging knee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDbWSkTwJdk

Not to throw another rider in this volatile mix, but whatever the hell happened to Hayden? He obviously is talented, won when he was competing against some very gifted and gritty opponents, has had good machinery under him; but today pretty much brings up the rear as far as rankings go

What gives?

PS - 2:21 in the video ...... goosebumps on goosebumps

[Parth46]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I love Rossi interviews. He seems like a genuine guy and does not skirt questions or tries to be diplomatic. I really like that. Here's another one thats fun to watch:

Much of the appeal of genuinely great sports mega stars lies in their overall personality and off-field behavior.

(Biaggi was cold and snooty, Stoner was aloof, Lorenzo is frankly emotionless and I don't have any STATS about the personality of folks like Agostini honestly)

Across sporting disciplines you'll find blokes who are loved for their warm personality, fun loving nature and down-to-earth charm, without any airs.

Guys who prove you don't need to show yourself off as a badass to finish first. Guys who prove nice guys don't always finish last.

Sachin Tendulkar, Rahul Dravid, Pete Sampras, Roger Federer, Michael Schumacher and many many more.

It's all a part of them being one of us, even when they're in the stratosphere when it comes to sporting talent and accomplishments. Would you really prefer hanging out with that person or just an emotionless, soul-less automaton, no matter how great?

They need feet of clay, to be a part of this earth, since they seem to walk so high above us.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Excellent!!!!

Only a veteran rider with a good few years of experience could have brought this up. I cannot agree with you more doc

I think riding off road (even though mild like gravel / fire roads) makes you an immensely better street rider; and I am trying to do just that

Nice video. Though if you love supermoto (who doesn't?) check out the pro team KTM ones. Crazy.

A little OT, but I was privileged to see live on TV one of THE craziest bits of pro cycling ever. Lance and another guy (a spanish rider I think) were racing down a mountain. These guys hit 60-70 kmph (maybe a bit more) downhill. On slick tyres that are 21 mm wide. Knee out a lot like Moto GP.

This guy was in front, Lance drafting right behind. I think the guy had a blowout, highsided spectacularly, and went down violently. He fractured his hip or pelvis or femur (can't recall now) and was out of the Tour. Lance right behind him had nowhere to go, and to avoid him, went off the side of the mountain, downhill off the road, on a road bike! The control was God-like, as he did not fall, raced down the hill and back on to the road on the loop directly below. Talk about goosebumps. I was one big goose bump that day.

That's what I mean about being a fan and having someone as a sporting hero. It matter not a whit to me his doping etc. Have had umpteen debates with my dad on it. A flawed God maybe, but a God all the same. That does not change.

[JayKis]

Some snippets from horse racing to overlay on motor racing.

A terrible jockey can hurt a good horse’s chances, but a good jockey can’t do a whole lot to help a nag hit the board.

How important is a Jockey for the race? Horse-racing enthusiasts like to say that the jockey accounts for 10 percent of a horse's performance on any given day. While that's hardly scientific, it gets to the nut of a jockey's role: He can't do much with a lousy horse, but he can help a great horse win. The best jockeys know an animal's strengths and weaknesses. Some horses prefer to hang back and break at the last minute, while others, known as speed horses, like to be out front the whole time. Some horses are comfortable running in close quarters and can pass along the rail on the left, while others need more space and pass on the right. A jockey takes these factors into account and adjusts his strategy accordingly.

Does this sound familiar? How important is a rider on a motogp bike? Can a good rider win on a bad bike? Can a bad rider win on a good bike?

Some more questions to Ponder?

Can an Alexis Esparagaro on a Suzuki beat a Marq Marquez on a Honda?
Can an Alexis Esparagaro on a Suzuki with Soft tyres beat a Marq Marquez on a Honda on Hard tyres?


In the meantime at the circuit de catalunya, practise starts tomorrow.

Stats say there are four motogp guys with crowns (Valentino with 6, Lorenzo with 2, Marquez with 2, Hayden with 1)
Stats also say Lorenzo has beaten Rossi 4 times in 7 races in Catalunya.
Stat also says that in 2014 at Catalunya, Rossi beat Lorenzo and won 2nd behind Marquez. Lorenzo finished 4th.
Stat also says that Rossi has never beaten Marquez in Catalunya.

[mayankk]

Stats say all of them put together haven't won as many championships as Vale!

[MonsterPatrol]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The difference between Rossi fans and Other fans is that I have seldom (actually to be honest, NEVER) seen a die hard Other fan who continues to be an Other fan (substitute Biaggi, Gibernaue, Capirosi, Stoner, Pedrosa, Lorenzo, Marquez, Hayden, Other Moto GP rider of Choice here) and ONLY an Other fan.

More often than not, (actually, always), what is truer is that they are anti-Rossi opportunist fans. Who will latch on to the flavor of the day who's having a good run against Rossi. Stoner retired? Bleh big deal. Lorenzo is GOD.

Never? Have you been watching the races at all? If you did you wouldn't have missed the official fan clubs of all three - Lorenzo,Marquez and Pedrosa present at almost all the races. I've been a part of JL99 official fan club since 2008. There's a procedure involved to become one and its a commitment for a lifetime. Although the fan club is mainly based in Spain, it has its own tiny clubs in different countries across the world (holding races) and these fans somehow manage the resources and lockout the entire grandstands or atleast rows of it to show their dedication towards their hero. Heck even the Espagaro brothers have a huge fan following and it grows as we speak.As far as my experience goes,none of these fans have ever quit supporting their rider. For example, my wife who has been a part of Dani Pedrosa fan club since 2007 has never thought even once about changing her support. I've seen her in tears when marc took dani out in Aragon in 2013 on his birthday.When Dani was out recently with arm pump issue and there were rumours floating around that he might not return as he was thanking his team n sponsors, she didn't eat well for a week.Supporting a rider who's had misfortune all his life,has been criticized all his life and by all standards the most underrated rider is much much tougher than backing a 9 time world champion. So next time you question the faith and dedication of other fans, think again.

Your assumptions about us being anti Rossi is absolutely wrong.We as official JL99 fans wish Rossi everytime he wins a race (with a letter to VR46 club) as he is Jorge's teammate. We do not belittle or give ugly titles to our hero's rivals. We find it shameful and unsportive. May be thats the difference. I agree Rossi's fan following is much bigger than Jorge,Marc or pedrosa's but in no way it is stronger in dedication and in belief. Flavour of the day I believe! Pfft..