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Old 19th September 2021, 01:27   #601
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

The initial capacity of Ola factory is 1 million units annually which can be increased to 10 million units over a period of time if demand is there.

That means 83333 units will have to be sold every month to achieve 100% utilisation of the initial capacity.

Current sales numbers of e scooters don't point to such rosy picture but again more choices at affordable rates with charging infrastructure in place can revolutionize Indian 2 wheeler space in a matter of few years.
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Old 19th September 2021, 01:34   #602
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by hemanth.anand View Post
You need not do much. In fact the subsidy won't be given to you but directly to the Manufacturer. The ex showroom price of 129999 already includes the FAMEII subsidy of 59550 for the S1Pro. Before vehicle delivery (theoretically speaking, after registering), you'll have to fill up a subsidy form with an Aadhar number and sign it. The manufacturer will use this form and get the subsidy amount from the Government.
I didn't quite understand. If the manufacturer shall get the subsidy directly from govt. then why is the customer being asked to pay the full price of Rs.1,29,999/-? Should it not be Rs.70,449/- then?
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Old 19th September 2021, 02:53   #603
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

Certainly impressive numbers from a marketing stand point. A new entrant with no track record of vehicle manufacturing is getting such an impressive response itself is commendable marketing success.

One of my close friend booked it. When I asked him about the lack of expertise the manufacturer has, he replied “anyone can make a scooter, not a rocket science”. Importance of track record and expertise may be debatable, but I got my answer. There is a surge in demand for electric two wheelers in our market especially with 200+ km range. It is just a matter of charging stations infrastructure to catch up.

I’m also feeling an itch. I would probably wait for the Chetak to upgrade its range.

Last edited by Thermodynamics : 19th September 2021 at 02:55.
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Old 19th September 2021, 08:04   #604
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

The sale can amount to 1000 Cr or 10000 Cr, you can have the world's largest factory, your PR team will put you up in daily news to keep the "excitement" in market intact.

But, does all of these matter to me? Nooooo..

All of this doesn't mean anything if the customer is not satisfied. Looking at the operating model of Ola Cabs, customer support is not their priority.

This Scooter is not priced aggressively, it's close to its competition. Looking at the design and the front panel, it screams cheap.

Electric vehicles are the future but the development of it is going in multiple direction rather than a straight path..
Time for all the manufacturers to collaborate and develop a tech that is competent as ICE.

As on today and in the near future, there is NONE, at least not in India.
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Old 19th September 2021, 09:37   #605
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by Thermodynamics View Post
he replied “anyone can make a scooter, not a rocket science”.
I disagree. Expertise is very much necessary, it is a road vehicle and not just a table or chair. But we know they have lifted an already developed and roadworthy product fom a European startup which was languishing for funds. In Europe any vehicle does not become road worthy so easily. Will he buy a car developed by Ola?

If it was an in house product developed exclusively by Ola, I would not touch it even with a barge pole. At least not for the first year.
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Old 19th September 2021, 09:46   #606
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by tiagoatrix View Post
This Scooter is not priced aggressively, it's close to its competition. Looking at the design and the front panel, it screams cheap.
Sorry, but how is Rs 99999 for the base variant "close to competition" ? The specifications are equivalent to Ather 450X which is Rs 145000. This is straight 2/3rds the price of Ather scooter. Also, there's no point talking about quality without actually looking at the scooter. No one has even seen a production model of the scooter, not even media.
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Old 19th September 2021, 09:46   #607
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by srini1785 View Post
The age of fountain pens is coming to a close. Welcome to Reynolds type use and throw era.
It has already come to a close quite a while back!

I kept the Splendor for so long because the model is still one of the top two selling two wheelers, along with Activa. Spares and service are not issues. Else I would have replaced it long back. I had four other bikes before Splendor and kept none of them for more than four years. Somehow the Splendor struck a chord!
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Old 19th September 2021, 09:48   #608
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999


I am proud owner of a Ather 450X and to use a crude analogy with mobiles, it is like the iPhone of e-scooters - it is designed that beautifully! I have a series 1 and Ather has put translucent panel as well so it looks uber cool as well.

Coming to my decision about the purchase itself: I came to know about the company from a team mate who was Tarun Mehta's batchmate at IIT Madras. So I booked the scooter in Jan 2020, fully confident about the product given the comfort from my team mate as well as the fact that Ather was very open about the engineering challenges that go into making the scooter. Also, I have a soft corner for start-ups anyway, having being a failed entrepreneur myself. I also have another principle: I will not buy a product from any company that has excelled during the license quota raj when an alternative is available: That ruled out Bajaj and TVS for me.

Then I test drove the two wheeler and was blown away by the fun factor well as practicality of it. Small things like the motor would not start unless the side stand is removed (or stop if it is deployed) tells me that the engineers really have thought through the bike. To back it up, they had an earlier model (S340) which they tried (albeit in limited geographies) to perfect the design. They even tried going into a space which many Indian companies don't usually venture into: Materials!! The translucent panel is a work of art, arrived at through painstaking experiments at Ather. The company has engineering at its core and that is reflected in the two wheeler that I own, which is absolutely wonderful. As an aside, I came to know of another interesting future feature from the mechanic who was changing the panels: They have deliberately left space for a larger battery upgrade for the future . In 450X, Ather has:
  1. Done a ground up design of the platform, a beautiful all Aluminium frame, quite advanced in design
  2. Designed the entire Battery Management System - this not only includes the software but also the thermal design of the battery pack
  3. Understands the complete dynamics of the vehicle - ground up mechanical design!!!
  4. Built a complete software ecosystem around the bike for not only the present product but also future upgrades
  5. Slowly stepping up on the production ecosystem as well as support ecosystem including Ather Grid.
Why am I sharing this? I just want our forum members to know to what extent an engineering company needs to go to create a world class product. I am afraid but I but I do not see the same with Ola (which is essentially a software driven brokerage company) or Bajaj ( A quintessential example of success in license quota Raj). I hope they build the same amount of rigour in their product. Chetak was a disaster despite years of experience in churning out two wheelers. I really wish Ola gets right with Etergo acquisition. The bane of many Indian companies has been lack of rigour in engineering research, especially core technologies. I see a refreshing change with Ather on that front!
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Old 19th September 2021, 11:19   #609
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

^^ I agree. Ather is very serious and painstaking about their product. If I don't like the Ola scooter in the flesh, I plan to go the Ather way myself. The only other product I might consider is TVS i-cube, but the hub motor puts me off. No Bajaj for me, thank you.

Last edited by Aditya : 19th September 2021 at 22:03. Reason: Typos
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Old 19th September 2021, 12:47   #610
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by Gansan View Post
^^ I agree. Ather is very serious and painstaking about their product. If I don't like the Ola scooter in the flesh, I plan to go ther Ather way myslf. The only other product I might consider is TVS i-cube, but the hub motor puts me off. No Bajaj for me, thank you.
Hub motors do have some advantages. They are much more silent then say a Ather. Hub motor also will have superior regen power.
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Old 19th September 2021, 14:54   #611
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

Interesting strategy by Ola to offer a product, a road going vehicle no less, without even a glimpse of what it looks like in the flesh and what it can do!

I am wondering for the average consumer, who may not be part of a forum like team bhp for example, and therefore has to rely on media hype and the company's own claims of runaway bookings, what is the source of such confidence in booking a yet to be seen product? Or are e scooters in the league of smart phones with not much risk of unpleasant surprises cropping up?

Are there any examples of smartphone/gadget launches which did flash sales without even revealing the products features and characteristics?
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Old 19th September 2021, 17:21   #612
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by saumitra_joshi View Post



Coming to my decision about the purchase itself: I came to know about the company from a team mate who was Tarun Mehta's batchmate at IIT Madras. So I booked the scooter in Jan 2020, fully confident about the product given the comfort from my team mate as well as the fact that Ather was very open about the engineering challenges that go into making the scooter. Also, I have a soft corner for start-ups anyway, having being a failed entrepreneur myself. I also have another principle: I will not buy a product from any company that has excelled during the license quota raj when an alternative is available: That ruled out Bajaj and TVS for me.

Then I test drove the two wheeler and was blown away by the fun factor well as practicality of it. Small things like the motor would not start unless the side stand is removed (or stop if it is deployed) tells me that the engineers really have thought through the bike. To back it up, they had an earlier model (S340) which they tried (albeit in limited geographies) to perfect the design. They even tried going into a space which many Indian companies don't usually venture into: Materials!! The translucent panel is a work of art, arrived at through painstaking experiments at Ather. The company has engineering at its core and that is reflected in the two wheeler that I own, which is absolutely wonderful.

Why am I sharing this? I just want our forum members to know to what extent an engineering company needs to go to create a world class product. I am afraid but I but I do not see the same with Ola (which is essentially a software driven brokerage company) or Bajaj ( A quintessential example of success in license quota Raj). I hope they build the same amount of rigour in their product. Chetak was a disaster despite years of experience in churning out two wheelers. I really wish Ola gets right with Etergo acquisition. The bane of many Indian companies has been lack of rigour in engineering research, especially core technologies. I see a refreshing change with Ather on that front!
First of all you own an Ather so bias is naturally understood. But to discount the other product when you haven't even seen it in person, to claim that other company doesn't have engineering prowess to develop a product like the one you own is uncalled for. You don't know what went behind the scenes to develop the Ola scooter, its not as simple as buying Etergo chassis/tech and slapping your own software on top and we are good to go. If that was the case Etergo would be selling its own scooters and wouldn't be standing on the verge of bankruptcy.
You don't know what levels of engineering it took to domesticate the product for Indian conditions, so lets not generalize things.

Secondly, the small details like motor won't start when side stand is deployed is not an engineering marvel by any means, its been already available in many products sold by Hero, Yamaha, TVS and Honda for a while now, in fact they even use it as an engine kill switch.

Thirdly, when you say they experimented with "materials", they didn't develop any new exotic material that automotive industry has never seen, its just a high grade plastic that they have used as design aesthetic. That's not me saying, that is what they say on their website.
"The translucent panels are made of high automotive grade plastic, and have undergone standard testing, making them highly reliable."


In terms of calling Bajaj a success because of license raj is not reasonable at all. The company isn't selling you a two stroke Chetak today under some special guidelines or preferential treatment from the government where it is exempted from any new pollution norms, the company has evolved on its own terms and succeeded not only in India but in international markets as well.
Bajaj Caliber, Platina, Pulsar, CT-100 are some of the products that brought revolution in Indian market. Rajiv Bajaj brought a change during that time going against his father's will and taking a risk by taking the company in new direction, towards motorcycles. He was also faced by resistance that time and people questioned him for his decisions, many claimed India will never be such a big bike market but looking at the market today we all know who was right.

Yes, they failed with the Chetak 4 stroke (Not with Electric Chetak), but the Apple iPhone 5c was also a disaster. It's not possible to have success in all the products you release, some may work some may not but that doesn't make you a less of a company.
It's ok to have a bias towards things you own or love, but becoming a fanboy and discrediting other products is not the right thing to do.

Last edited by officer416 : 19th September 2021 at 17:41.
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Old 19th September 2021, 20:07   #613
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by officer416 View Post
First of all you own an Ather so bias is naturally understood. But to discount the other product when you haven't even seen it in person, to claim that other company doesn't have engineering prowess to develop a product like the one you own is uncalled for. You don't know what went behind the scenes to develop the Ola scooter, its not as simple as buying Etergo chassis/tech and slapping your own software on top and we are good to go. If that was the case Etergo would be selling its own scooters and wouldn't be standing on the verge of bankruptcy.
You don't know what levels of engineering it took to domesticate the product for Indian conditions, so lets not generalize things.
I have simply called out that a similar level of detailed engineering that has not been done by OLA itself. They have purchased Etergo and one would assume Etergo has done it. Bhavish Agarwal has himself stated that it requires quite a lot of engineering effort to make things work in Indian condition and they are doing that right now. Ather has done it for multiple years. This has nothing to do with my bias towards Ather. It is a simple engineering fact: Making things work in Indian conditions requires a lot of efforts. Ather has done it. Ola is expected to be *doing* parts of it, the other being done part being done by the company that it purchased. Remember, there is "know how" and "know why". Only time will tell if Ola is able to get both. I am not generalizing anything, I am simply calling out the fact that Ather has done it for years before they launched 450X. I am sorry if it was seen in any other way.

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Originally Posted by officer416 View Post
Secondly, the small details like motor won't start when side stand is deployed is not an engineering marvel by any means, its been already available in many products sold by Hero, Yamaha, TVS and Honda for a while now, in fact they even use it as an engine kill switch.
This was just *one* example to show the attention to detail. Ather was the *first* to provide Park assist, the *first* to provide navigation (integrated with Google Maps), *first* to provide features like "Follow me home lights". The point is here is a start up which is paying serious attention to detail. This requires bringing together a lot of different elements of engineering together: Design, ease of use, manufacturing technology, software ecosystem and so forth. And most importantly, it takes time and rigour to build such capabilities. Ola has purchased a company and is completely relying on this company to have done that; Ola as an organisation currently *does not* have those capabilities and is likely working on building those. Based on my own experience, these things takes years. I am happy for the Indian customers if they are able to demonstrate those capabilities right from the first sale. However, I will remain skeptical until then. Also, Ather technical forum makes their engineering thought process quite transparent. Would be happy to see Bajaj do such things but have they done it so far??? Do visit the Ather technical forum to see for yourself the level of details being discussed - nobody else is doing it and it has nothing to do with me being a fanboy or owner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by officer416 View Post
Thirdly, when you say they experimented with "materials", they didn't develop any new exotic material that automotive industry has never seen, its just a high grade plastic that they have used as design aesthetic. That's not me saying, that is what they say on their website.
"The translucent panels are made of high automotive grade plastic, and have undergone standard testing, making them highly reliable."
Fair enough that it is not exotic material but as a start up, they had the vision, patience and the engineering rigour to build it. The point is that here is a company that is willing to go beyond the usual limits to create a completely different product!
Quote:
In terms of calling Bajaj a success because of license raj is not reasonable at all. The company isn't selling you a two stroke Chetak today under some special guidelines or preferential treatment from the government where it is exempted from any new pollution norms, the company has evolved on its own terms and succeeded not only in India but in international markets as well.
Bajaj Caliber, Platina, Pulsar, CT-100 are some of the products that brought revolution in Indian market. Rajiv Bajaj brought a change during that time going against his father's will and taking a risk by taking the company in new direction, towards motorcycles. He was also faced by resistance that time and people questioned him for his decisions, many claimed India will never be such a big bike market but looking at the market today we all know who was right.

Yes, they failed with the Chetak 4 stroke (Not with Electric Chetak), but the Apple iPhone 5c was also a disaster. It's not possible to have success in all the products you release, some may work some may not but that doesn't make you a less of a company.
It's ok to have a bias towards things you own or love, but becoming a fanboy and discrediting other products is not the right thing to do.
The *production* Chetak electric had problems like not starting under high tension wires ... there is a reason why it has not sold as many as some of its competitors. I *have* driven the Chetak electric and is ok at best - no where close to an Ather 450X in terms of driving experience or features. Bajaj benefited immensely from the license quota Raj: there was simply no competition and I am old enough to remember a wait time of two years for a Bajaj Chetak. So sorry but Bajaj did make *tons* of money based on lack of competition and choice to the consumers. It is no surprise that a Bajaj Auto is not very different today from what it was in 1980s. Pulsar was an honourable exception where Bajaj did try to do something different - yet, as an example, the technology behind the Piston in the IC Engine came from Kawasaki. Rajeev Bajaj's decision on moving away from scooter market is legendary from the point of view of lost revenue for Bajaj - Honda Activa completely captured the marker and is seen as a huge missed opportunity.

Here's an interesting reading: Ather has about 55 patents: You can search for patents by Ather Energy Pvt Ltd here: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/...ncedSearch.jsf. They deal with things like BMS, battery casing, chargers, even the locking system et al - while there is *only* one from Bajaj related to this topic ("electrics") and is on their definition of an electric vehicle with respect to a three wheeled auto. Nothing on BMS, or the software ecosystem!! Happy to learn if Bajaj is doing some in house research on this. As an aside, Etergo has three patents and one of them is on BMS which OLA will get (again via Etergo and hopefully not without any contractual constraints on "know why"

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Old 19th September 2021, 21:03   #614
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

OLA and Ather scooters represent two very different approaches to market penetration and make for a good case study.

The Ather scooter is a product of passion and it shows in the small touches like the exposed chassis, transparent front panel etc. It is a product from a team that started from scratch and probably had to discover and reinvent a lot of things on the way. But in doing so they got infected with the "Not invented here" syndrome. They have tried to do everything in-house and by themselves, this slowed them down a lot and I am afraid this is going to cost them. A lot. IMO, Ather just cannot manufacture at the same scale and speed as OLA due to 1. how the product is designed to be manufactured and 2. they don't have as big an assembly line.

The OLA scooter, on the other hand, is a product of good business acumen (and lots of venture capital). Instead of wasting time and effort in developing a scooter from the ground up, they just bought out a company that had already developed a good scooter. The Etergo team already put in the passion and hard work to develop a decent scooter designed to be manufactured quickly and cheaply -- notice the large molded body panels, which translate into fewer parts and faster assembly; also the fact that Etergo was designed to be an app scooter hence needed to be cheap to produce. All OLA needed to do was make sure the product can be mass produced efficiently at scale. And they have focused on just that. If OLA succeeds in getting their factory up and running as intended, they might just capture the scooter market due to sheer scale and speed. Traditional scooter manufacturers should be panicking, it might already be too late.
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Old 19th September 2021, 22:23   #615
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Default Re: Ola's made-in-India Electric scooter, now launched at Rs. 99,999

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Originally Posted by shaheenazk View Post
I didn't quite understand. If the manufacturer shall get the subsidy directly from govt. then why is the customer being asked to pay the full price of Rs.1,29,999/-? Should it not be Rs.70,449/- then?
The customer is paying only 129999 instead of paying 189549.
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