[AulusGabinius]

Originally Posted by Axe77

I think its only the distinct flex in the footpeg that I found a bit surprising but I don't believe that's a fatal issue.

Could this be due to the springs in the footpegs?

Originally Posted by Axe77

Those who are more particular on this may even choose to swap it out for superior brands like a Metzeler Karoo or Pirelli STR or similar.

I guess any tyre that fits the KTM Adv 390 would fit here, assuming the cross-sections are similar. It comes with Metzeler Karoo Streets in the UK, I think.

Originally Posted by Axe77

For that, even on my Tiger I'd upgrade to barkbusters or similar heavy duty protectors.

Rishaad Mody at Autocar dropped it, broke the handguard and snapped the tip off the front brake lever. Scuffing on the exhaust aside, no real damage.

[parrys]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Seems like sorted ergonomics for 75th percentile. It would be a tough call to choose between this and the upcoming H450. My heart is more inclined towards the H450 purely for its better capabilities off the road, but this one is a close second. Exciting times ahead.

How many times would you go off-roading?

Which of the two would offer a better quality ownership experience?

These answer to these two questions should help you a bit...

[aviator1101]

Originally Posted by parrys

How many times would you go off-roading?

Which of the two would offer a better quality ownership experience?

These answer to these two questions should help you a bit...

Sir,
More than off roading, the major worry is for people who intend to use this bike as an adventure tourer and this number will be quite large.

The rider seat may be well padded and more in length, but the pillion seat seems a tad smaller to me. Add to that the luggage and it surely would fall short of space in the rear seat department.

The off roading, even when you travel from place A to B in our country, is incidental and unavoidable in the states claiming to have best of roads.

As regards ownership experience, Bajaj and Triumph would have made a product and priced it spot on. But lack of sales network and after sales service support in tier 2 and 3 cities would undo all the good that they have achieved if the service network is not widened ASAP. I somehow feel Triumph launched this bike in a hurry without sorting out their administrative issues. Maybe launching of too many bikes in the 350-450 cc category induced in them the fear of missing out.

Imagine entire Eastern Zone is catered for by a single dealer in Kolkata. What experience will a person narrate who has to travel 1200 kms for his annual service, leave aside fault rectification.

[atluri_rkc]

Originally Posted by aviator1101

But lack of sales network and after sales service support in tier 2 and 3 cities would undo all the good that they have achieved if the service network is not widened ASAP. I somehow feel Triumph launched this bike in a hurry without sorting out their administrative issues. Maybe launching of too many bikes in the 350-450 cc category induced in them the fear of missing out.

Imagine entire Eastern Zone is catered for by a single dealer in Kolkata. What experience will a person narrate who has to travel 1200 kms for his annual service, leave aside fault rectification.

Please see this from a different perspective - Distribution and Service partners will be interested to join a OEM when they see great & promising products. It will be difficult to onboard these and sustain if the brand doesn't have a compelling offering. I believe Rajiv Bajaj announced during launch about their plans to expand the network. For a home grown brand like Bajaj, this expansion should relatively be easy and especially since they have two great winners and strong hints of more to come from this collaboration.

Lets give it some time and I am sure there will be significant incremental changes in the network coverage on a quarterly basis.

[Axe77]

On the aspect of touch points, I think their interim stated goal is to have 100+ dealerships (assume there will be several cities which will have multiple dealerships) by about March 2024. I think that's a strong enough start to give most customers across the country some degree of confidence.

Of course, I understand its still not a patch on RE's PAN India footprint and if I was a prospective customer in a city without a dealership at all for the foreseeable future (even in an adjacent / proximate city), I would also lean towards the product which has a dealership closer home.

[nasirkaka]

How many times would you go off-roading?

Which of the two would offer a better quality ownership experience?

These answer to these two questions should help you a bit..

More than the amount of off-roading i do, i would want the bike to be capable and ready when the need arise. Present Himalayans have been a hard working mule capable of taking quite some beating.

'Better quality ownership experience' is a bit vague term dependent of varied factors. It could be product related or service related or available network related, cost related, or combination of some of them, etc. I may buy premium motorcycle from BMW which boasts of very high quality, but the dealer experience may be pathetic. The bike may run well as it is of good quality and i may be a happy customer, but if there is an issue with bike, i may have terrible time dealing with the dealer.
Or i may buy a basic bike from a local manufacturer, which is low on quality and keeps having issues and niggles but the dealer fixes them without much issue. I may be happy as long as the niggles are pro-actively taken care of. But i may not like it for the fact that there are many niggles to begin with. Throw in factors like cost, time, dealer network, spares availability, quality of service, etc and it all gets further complicated.

I have had terrible experience with RE with my ownership of classic 500, and fairly good experience with them with my ownership of Interceptor.
I have had good quality experience with BMW 310GS as a product, but bad experience with Tusker motarad. Had terrible and expensive experience with Keerthi triumph with regards to spares, timeline, etc when my Bonnie had a fall.
So quantifying better quality of ownership experience is different with luck factor playing some part as well. For eg, i bought my xpulse together with another friend a few years back, where i have had fairly good ownership experience with product and its eco-system but my friend had many issues, mainly with product and eventually sold the bike.

On a recent ride for some monsoon off-roading, one of the Himalayan which was leading, went into a big water pool where half the bike was submerged underwater. There were lots of shallow water puddles on the trail and we gauged the depth of some initial ones and continued riding, but this puddle turned out to be pretty deep. Sharing a pic of the puddle in which the bike went. There was water in air filter, and a lot of water went into engine as well, not to mention silencer was full of water too. and of course the engine died. We pushed the bike out of the deep puddle, and were away from civilization in someones estate. On our own, and with help from experienced friends, we managed to remove the oil, air filter, water from silencer, bought some basic engine oil and flushed it a 3 times. The incident happened in the evening and by morning, the bike was in decent running condition. Ofcouse we had to make a trip to nearest town to buy some engine oil and one of our friend had decent amount of tools at hand too.

Now how do we classify this experience. Should we blame Himalayan for air filter design, intake, cover, placement etc in a position where it sucked in a lot of water, or should we thank its simple design for which we were able to fix the breakdown and continue the ride. I was on my 310GS during this offroad, and if something like this had happened to my bike, i guess we would not have any choice but to tow the vehicle to nearest service station which was 250 km away.

Sorry to drift from the topic, but these product experiences help us in the decision making process for a new product.

[Raskolnikov.R]

Mod note: Back to back post, use Multi Quote [Quote +] instead. Thanks.

Sorry to drift from the topic, but these product experiences help us in the decision making process for a new product.

I believe you've answered your own question.

The Himalayan is designed to be in the use case you've described. The Scrambler isn't.

The Scrambler is going to do one thing well - mild off-roading. To ask of it what the Himalayan is capable of doing seems unwise.

Can one expect the Himalayan to ride and handle the speeds the Scrambler is capable of? I don't think so.

Indeed, most of us can't afford multiple motorcycles for different use cases. However, we can approximate and reach the one that serves our purpose best.

As a Triumph Speed 400 owner, the Scrambler was my first choice. Alas, I stand in at 5ft and 5 in, and thankfully, devoid of the Napoleonic Complex. I knew I couldn't manage the seat height inside any city. And my use case is to travel far and wide. Therefore, I let go of what I wanted and chose what most fulfilled my needs.

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Seems like sorted ergonomics for 75th percentile. It would be a tough call to choose between this and the upcoming H450. My heart is more inclined towards the H450 purely for its better capabilities off the road, but this one is a close second. Exciting times ahead.

Dear Member,

I owe you an apology for my earlier comment. Going back to the previous page, I see I've read you out of context.

My sincere apologies.

I will learn the rules of the game by-heart before I hit the submit button.

[nasirkaka]

@Raskolnikov.R

Yes, my context was the new and upcoming Himalayan 450.

I need to replace my ageing 310GS, hence a new bike dilemma.

I have always been a big fan of Scrambler genre hence the attraction towards the 400X. At the same time, the the 400X has decent power, good ergonomics and good suspension ( as per all the video reviews). So a capable motorcycle.

I guess a lot of people would be torn between the H450 and 400X. Waiting for H450 to launch next months and lets see how it fares.

[Raskolnikov.R]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

@Raskolnikov.R

Yes, my context was the new and upcoming Himalayan 450.

I need to replace my ageing 310GS, hence a new bike dilemma.

Now, ain't that the kind of dilemma to face?

@Nasirkaka, I expect the T Scrambler to do everything the GS310 is capable of. And the H450 to handle everything the GS310 couldn’t or shouldn’t.

I remember the conundrum from the time when BMW introduced the 5 series which was comfortable, and Mercedes' E Class being able to handle.

Do keep us informed on your choice.

[Carfool_Wheeler]

Any news on when Test Drives begin ?

[Funny]

Thanks for the crisp review.

I had booked the bike in July and I am now convinced that the bike would be the best do-it-all machine for me after watching almost all reviews on YT and elsewhere. The only major cons for me would be the seat height (I am about 5.7) and kerb weight. My previous ride was the Mahindra Mojo which weighed about 182kgs, hence I wanted a lighter bike for my next purchase but seems like there's no suitable option with lower kerb weight. I do not intend to go off-roading or long tours in the near term but having a bike that can handle that when needed is a good thing IMO. My major use-case is riding within city on unpaved roads with numerous potholes, speed-brakers etc without breaking a sweat which I think this bike would do pretty well. If not for the Scrambler, I would've bought home the Speed 400 by now.

Now the only thing that remains is a test-ride. On 18th I had got a call from Khivraj Triumph (my booking is with Keerthi unfortunately), the lady told me that the bikes will be available for display and test-rides by the 1st week of November. Actually I am not really in the need of a bike since I am WFH and I would ride once or twice per week at max, but the FOMO is not letting me think of anything other than the bike. The nearest dealer for me is Khivraj itself, so I might have to request for a dealer change if everything goes well with the test-ride.

Edit: None of the reviewers have shown what's under that split seat setup, I wonder why. @Axe77, did you get a chance to take a look at what's available under the seat?

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by nasirkaka

Now how do we classify this experience. Should we blame Himalayan for air filter design, intake, cover, placement etc in a position where it sucked in a lot of water, or should we thank its simple design for which we were able to fix the breakdown and continue the ride. I was on my 310GS during this offroad, and if something like this had happened to my bike, i guess we would not have any choice but to tow the vehicle to nearest service station which was 250 km away.

Sorry to drift from the topic, but these product experiences help us in the decision making process for a new product.

Wow! You guys managed to revive and restart a water intake damaged engine in an open field. That is so impressive man.

Not having an iota of that expertise, or patience, I would prefer instead to ride a bike that can go through water, exhaust submerged, without sucking in water. Or ride around or as much as possible at the edges of any unknown water bodies.

[aviator1101]

Visited Speed Triumph at Kolkata today.
Cancelled the pre-booking of Speed 400 and retained the same for Scrambler 400x.

As per the sales executive, the Scrambler is likely to arrive at the showroom by end of this month and commencement of test rides would take some more time. They had no idea about when the deliveries would start.

Hope the Scrambler in flesh and blood appears little more substantial than the Speed 400 which I felt was puny, to say the least.

[nasirkaka]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Wow! You guys managed to revive and restart a water intake damaged engine in an open field. That is so impressive man.

Not having an iota of that expertise, or patience, I would prefer instead to ride a bike that can go through water, exhaust submerged, without sucking in water. Or ride around or as much as possible at the edges of any unknown water bodies.

Stars aligned and things fell in place that day. It wasn't an open field, we had access to a shed close to where we were staying (in tents). The repair was carried out there and over night. one of the riders (also a teambhp member) had good know how of the Himalayan engine basics. the airfilter on the bike was BMC, which was easy to remove, dry and reuse. Only difficult part was finding a funnel to pour-in the oil but was managed with some paper cup. having right tools helped as well. All in all, it wasn't a very difficult task, but time taking one.

The trail was known to couple of riders on the group and they had been here some months back. Guess monsoon changes topography and fast. And its a trail used by jeeps. Just that this extra deep puddle came out of syllabus and the rider was taken by surprise, could not get the bike out with momentum, lost of footing and bike leaned enough to suck in a lot of that muddy water.

Post this incident, rest of the riders tried riding around the edge and got entangled in some tree roots and almost ended-up burning clutch, in the slippery entanglement. That is another story. This place is close to Coorg in Karnataka and was full of leeches, adding to the adventure. There was a suzuki SX250 as well in the group and did fairly well.

[kedar3223]

Considering the general consensus that the triumphs are vibey above 110 and have a significant speedo error above that, which among speed 400, scrambler 400x, new Duke 250, cb300r would be recommended as an upgrade over 60k km run 150cc. Usage being around 60km commute in sparsely dense free flowing b roads and weekend trips of around 200-400km with a mix of highways, city roads and broken trails leading up to remote destinations.

With the service interval advantage, low/mid range torque and off road ability, does 400x present itself as a superior bike over a Duke 250 with say Apollo tramplrs or mrf mogrips? Both have the same amount of suspension travel and around 1.5cm of gc difference. The Duke has better electronics and no major fundamental design issues such as placement of coolant reservoir.How strongly is a stretch to 390 recommended for this use case?