[rock75]

If they price the sedan higher by around 50 k( like swift) the petrol sail sedan will start at around Rs 5 lac and diesel at Rs 6.35 lacs, I'm sure it will cut Swift dzire's sales as it will have a bigger boot and more interior space, with no waiting period.

[sups]

Well, I could not resist the temptetation of seeing the car in flesh. So, packed up early today from office and reached one of the chevrolet showrooms in Pune at 5.45pm. On my way to the showroom in my Getz, I was wondering how crowded the place might be as today is the launch day. To my utter surprise, I did not see a single person/prospective buyer standing in front of a spanking red LS-ABS petrol model. Not sure if that is the answer to the below question of suhaas.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The golden question remains though. "Will people walk away from Maruti and Toyota showrooms to sample a competent Chevy product?"

Lets come back to my initial impressions. "Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder", and I was frankly infatuated by the front looks of the car... its handsome, masculine and beautiful. As per my eyes, none of the hatchbacks in India looks so "big" from the front with the Cruze like looks and SX4-ish head lights. The side profile is acceptable and more is desired at the back.

I was accompanied by a humble sales man who had no idea about the car and kept on telling "We are not yet trained to demonstrate the car". He told me that price is not yet announced for Pune and will be like 7.3L OTR for the top end diesel. So, I had to tell him that delhi ex-showroom price is 6.6L, and he never spoke after that.

I asked my driver to make himself comfortable at the front seat. And then I slipped into the back seat just behind him. "Whoooa", what a leg space! It seemed something between liva and etios leg space. But the back seat under-thigh area is small for people with long legs. A thick seat cover with cushion will be a very good addition.

Now its my turn to the driver seat. The sound of closing the front door is much much "assuring" than in a Liva. The overall visibility is very good, but the raised dash board does obstruct some view. Rear view camera would be a good addition in the accessory list. The interior quality is quite acceptable and has the promise to last.

If I find the ride is as good as given in our tbhp official report, then I might book the LS-ABS diesel version with a heavy heart, as the LT will touch about 7.9L OTR in Pune. I can justify this price if the vehicle would have a service backup of Maruti/Toyota. The car is overpriced just because it comes from a chevy stable, and not for other reasons probably.

I am actually very impressed with the Toyota service in Pune. If SAIL does not work out, then it will be a Liva GD (with ABS, but no airbag) for me. Toyota has offerred me a onroad price of about 6.7L (including the 20K festive discount) for Liva GD . I can spend another 40K to get alloys, ICE and seat covers. Question is: Will I lose a lot in Liva in terms of ride quiality at the back compared to SAIL? Need to do a back to back test drive.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by tictactoe

Low end pastics, high performance and great on economy - This car has all the makings of a taxi car. I had the same view when I saw the Logan. Not sure what segment GM is looking at taking on. Definitely this car wont give Swift a run for its money. Possibly Indica?

Well, I am not too sure about this "low end plastic" talk we often get to see on various threads. How does one know from the look of the dash and the AC vents that the plastic is low grade? A polished plastic, which might look better to the naked eye is not necessarily high grade plastic!
For example, I find nothing wrong with the plastic quality of Etios or Logan and don't think they are inferior to that of Swift. Only, the plastic of Etios and Logan have matte finish and swift plastic is smooth (well, almost ). I don't know whether plastic quality is judged by polish or not. Didn't get the chance to check on Sail though!

Well, this GM car is definitely not trying to give Indica a run for its money, at least that does not seem to be the intent from the pricing of the car. But, yes, a good, reliable car may be, which Indica initially wanted to be and failed?

Remember, the hype associated with Indica when it was launched? It could have changed the history of Indian automobiles if the car delivered what it was supposed to, right? That space still exists and is likely to stay for some more time. Maybe, some people are just trying to fill in that space? I can't quite blame them if they do.

For example, every time I drive my Liva, I feel that it is somewhat like what Indica should have been. A reliably built Indica. Good space inside, no fuss, no frills, good GC, low maintenance. Maybe, Sail is trying that in its own way?
There are definitely takers for this segment.

Forget the Swift -- it will sell because of the Maruti badge despite lesser inside space and more price (and the same engine as Sail). Swift always had good mouth publicity (the name Swift is around for quite some time now) and it was the first "big" car of Maruti against Indica. But same is not true of Ritz, which is not as coveted in brand perception as the Swift, despite its lower pricing. What happens to Ritz is to be seen.

Sail needs to be marketed well, and I firmly believe it stands a chance. And if it enters taxi space, that would be great for the car. Taxi fleet owners always need low-cost, low-maintenance, reliable cars. To be honest, most of individual customers look for the same too, because that is common sense.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by sups

To my utter surprise, I did not see a single person/prospective buyer standing in front of a spanking red LS-ABS petrol model.

Even I was surprised. Apart from moi, there was only one other person at the showroom inquiring about the car. A couple walked in right past the Sail and went towards the Beat diesel.

Originally Posted by sups

Lets come back to my initial impressions. "Beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder", and I was frankly infatuated by the front looks of the car... its handsome, masculine and beautiful.

I've got to agree with you on this. The front end is actually very appealing. The side is boring and bland while the rear just makes it look like a '90s hatchback.

Originally Posted by sups

I asked my driver to make himself comfortable at the front seat. And then I slipped into the back seat just behind him. "Whoooa", what a leg space! It seemed something between liva and etios leg space. But the back seat under-thigh area is small for people with long legs. A thick seat cover with cushion will be a very good addition.

Yes, the space is very good. Under-thigh support is something one can't easily quantify. It's important to remember than no car in the segment offers good under-thigh support at the back. just like the Sail, the Etios has a flat bench and so does the Jazz. I've also learnt from mod Vid6639 that contours in the seats only allow you to perceive that the seats are of the supportive sort. The creases and contours actually give you the sensation of being plonked on an uneven surface more than anything else!

Originally Posted by sups

Now its my turn to the driver seat. The sound of closing the front door is much much "assuring" than in a Liva. The overall visibility is very good, but the raised dash board does obstruct some view. Rear view camera would be a good addition in the accessory list. The interior quality is quite acceptable and has the promise to last.

The seats up front are also raised a little, if you noticed. So it actually negates the raised dashboard. Height-adjustable seats would have been welcome though!

Originally Posted by sups

If I find the ride is as good as given in our tbhp official report, then I might book the LS-ABS diesel version with a heavy heart

Yes, the ride is good. Very good.

Originally Posted by sups

as the LT will touch about 7.9L OTR in Pune. The car is overpriced just because it comes from a chevy stable, and not for other reasons probably.

7.9 OTR Pune? That's very very expensive! I doubt it would be 7.9! I was thinking it would be around 7.7 OTR Bangalore, but if it's close to 8 lakhs, it's not going to help it at all. That's not too far off the top-end Swift's price-tag.

Originally Posted by sups

Question is: Will I lose a lot in Liva in terms of ride quiality at the back compared to SAIL? Need to do a back to back test drive.

In terms of ride-quality, the Liva and Sail are very similar. It's hard to separate them. But if you include NVH, the Sail has the edge. The Liva sounds like a truck when you accelerate, there is so much clatter it's not even funny. The Sail on the other hand is very silent, probably more silent than the other MJD applications.

The Liva will be able to seat 3 at the back but the Sail's back seat looks like it would struggle to accommodate 3 people for long drives.

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by sups

I am actually very impressed with the Toyota service in Pune. If SAIL does not work out, then it will be a Liva GD (with ABS, but no airbag) for me. Toyota has offerred me a onroad price of about 6.7L (including the 20K festive discount) for Liva GD . I can spend another 40K to get alloys, ICE and seat covers. Question is: Will I lose a lot in Liva in terms of ride quiality at the back compared to SAIL? Need to do a back to back test drive.

Just go ahead with the TDs. Would love to get your comparison. I bought my Liva GD when Sail was not around, otherwise I would have done exactly what you intend to do. I got my Liva GD and spent 36K for alloys, seat covers and ICE and I am not regretting so far (3000 kms in two months). Toyota service is really good, that's my Kolkata experience. Very impressive. It's cheap too!

Ride quality at the back is superb in Liva. Can't compare though with SAIL. But accommodating three people is not a problem at all. And plenty of leg space which is needed for a long drive.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

In terms of ride-quality, the Live and Sail are very similar. It's hard to separate them. But if you include NVH, the Sail has the edge. The Liva sounds like a truck when you accelerate, there is so much clatter it's not even funny. The Sail on the other hand is very silent, probably more silent than the other MJD applications.

The Liva will be able to seat 3 at the back but the Sail's back seat looks like it would struggle to accommodate 3 people for long drives.

Yes, Liva NVH is something. Not a truck or a tractor though, that's an exaggeration. .

There's a happy kitten-like "purr" audible if you are idling or revving the engine. The sound gets uglier if you are one gear lower than what is needed. Not much is audible though from the back seat. I have also noticed that the engine noise kind of comes down past 2000 km, but yes, it's not a very silent engine. The NVH is lower than Tata cars and comparable to a Logan.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by subratasenn

J
Yes, Liva NVH is something. Not a truck or a tractor though, that's an exaggeration. .

Of course it is exaggeration.

It's surprising because the petrol engine in the Liva is very very silent even though the car isn't plastered with noise-deadening material. Just goes to show how refined petrol engines can be these days.

And yes, you're right. The Liva will be able to accommodate 3 at the back but in the Sail, it will be tight.

[srh]

Originally Posted by GTO

This has been discussed several times earlier on review threads. Please note that the comparison sheet cannot be made infinitely w-i-d-e. It's already got 7 cars in it!

To add to your list, even the Nissan Micra, Honda Jazz (petrol), Renault Pulse, Maruti Ritz and Premier Rio (basically a hatchback) haven't been included. Of these, the Micra & Ritz are a lot more relevant to the Indian market than the Fabia & Punto, by the way.

We will include only the ones we feel are direct competitors and have reasonable success in the market place. Yes, when limited by space, we'll let the market (i.e. sales numbers) decide.

If you have any more suggestions, please continue on the "Suggestions for Team-BHP Thread" thread.

Thanks

GTO...just a suggestion. These additional cars could just be listed out without the pros/ cons list. And how about a rating mechanism on maybe a scale of 5 or 10?

[theMAG]

This car is a looker. Contrasting race stripes running on its flank will compliment its looks. This should be a good alternative to the Swift.

[jessie007]

Sail U-VA's brochure has been uploaded on the website (am attaching it as well). Also the brochure for the new Spark is now available for download. Aveo's brochure has been removed, but surprisingly Aveo U-VA's brochure is still there!

http://www.chevrolet.co.in/tools/che...brochures.html

[sups]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

In terms of ride-quality, the Liva and Sail are very similar. It's hard to separate them. But if you include NVH, the Sail has the edge. The Liva sounds like a truck when you accelerate, there is so much clatter it's not even funny. The Sail on the other hand is very silent, probably more silent than the other MJD applications.

I am little confused here. You mentioned in the review that straight line stability of SAIL is almost near to that of a punto. However, when I drove Liva almost 7 months back, the stability on a straight slightly undulating road was not outstanding, but acceptable. What's your take on this? Its amazing to see how Toyota has made a such a stable car with such a light weight.

Also, though Liva and Etios are built on the same platform, I liked the road manners and gear shift of etios more than that of a Liva.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by rock75

If they price the sedan higher by around 50 k( like swift) the petrol sail sedan will start at around Rs 5 lac and diesel at Rs 6.35 lacs, I'm sure it will cut Swift dzire's sales as it will have a bigger boot and more interior space, with no waiting period.

One basic difference between the swift-dzire and sail-Notch would be the Length. I am guessing Sail Notch would be atleast 4.3 M in length which makes it not only a far bigger car than dzire but also levies that crucial 12%+ additional taxes on account of excise and others. Don't think 50K thousand difference is good enough. Most crucially though the Sail Notch Seems a proper builtup sedan and looks way better than Dzire, Etios and logan. If the Sail-Sedan is launched before the next march, carries the same fit/finish/driving/ride capabilities as the sail UVA then I am definitely buying this sedan. Having driven my current UVA for 3.5+ years, and occasionally driven a lot of other cars, I am very sure that Sail-Sedan will meet my requirement than any other car in the segment. Verna and Cruze are clear choice for me when it comes to sedan segment but don't think I can stretch my budget beyond Sail segment.

I am off to test-drive the sail UVA to get the first hand drive feel.

[satishchugh]

IMHO, GM got a little carried away and priced it 30-40K more than they should have. Right now it's bang there with Swift. They could have started with introductory prices at 40K less than current and then if they got a fab response, they could have increased it.

Anyday, I feel it's better to price your product low and then don't offer any discount (or only minimal) rather than to price high and then offer lot of discount.

I am a Chevy owner, so know their sales and service a lil bit. Have they ever targeted selling 10K Beats and 7-8K Sparks (all possible with right strategy)??? I feel they are not aggressive in sales process, Maruti sales people (at least in NCR) won't sleep till they sell you one of their product.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by sups

I am little confused here. You mentioned in the review that straight line stability of SAIL is almost near to that of a punto. However, when I drove Liva almost 7 months back, the stability on a straight slightly undulating road was not outstanding, but acceptable. What's your take on this? Its amazing to see how Toyota has made a such a stable car with such a light weight.

Also, though Liva and Etios are built on the same platform, I liked the road manners and gear shift of etios more than that of a Liva.

Let me clear this up for you.

There is a difference between ride-quality and straight-line stability / composure. Both cars are reasonably composed but the problem with the Sail is the incredibly sharp steering. Even though it lacks feedback and feel, it's light and sharp so it's easy to change direction even at speed. This makes the car feel twitchy if you don't have a steady and firm grip on the wheel. So when you don't have a firm hand on the wheel and you go over undulations, the car may feel a little unsettled. But that's not because of the chassis / suspension.

[rohittunga]

Just got the info from Trident Chevrolet about the Chevy Sail's price and I'm afraid they've messed it up

Price of Diesel OTR Bangalore

Base LS : Rs 7,20,000
Mid LS ABS : Rs 7,59,000
Top LT ABS : Rs 8,11,000

This makes the price of Vista VX (Mid variant with ABS and all the other goodies) of Rs 6,92,360 a very very good deal, apart from the fact that Vista currently has a 20K cash discount. I was expecting the Sail to be priced at least 30K lower than what they've finalized upon. I'm disappointed.

[sups]

Originally Posted by rohittunga

Top LT ABS : Rs 8,11,000.

This is what I have been talking about. Pune onroad price will not be below 7.9L. Very disappointing indeed.