[kpzen]

Did a back to back TD of Sail vcdi / i20 crdi / Figo Tdci.
Here's my observation:

Looks & Design:
i20 = Sail > Figo

Interiors :
i20>Sail>Figo

Space - Interior
Sail>i20>Figo

Space - Boot
Figo>i20>Sail

Driveability
City
Figo>Sail>i20
Highway
i20 >> Figo = Sail

Ergonomics
Sail> i20 > Figo

Ride Quality
Sail> i20 > Figo

Highway manners

Figo > Sail = i20

VFM

Figo = Sail > i20

[tharian]

Went and checked out the SAIL at Kropex Chevy on Hosur road and got the price list which was released when I was there.

The test drive was a top end diesel car which I drove. Liked the ride which was very similar to a Figo, The turbo did not kick hard as in the Swift(pre face lifted). The dash was a bit high for my liking and the seat low, like in the Polo. The gear lever was nice and stubby .

What I noticed was that the diesel engine clatter was next to absent. I was more interested in the Petrol version since I have a Figo petrol. When I was there, they were loading a petrol display car into the show room floor on a ramp. So, I could notice the sound, and power and the underbody at the same.
The petrol engine seemed very refined and silent, just like most of the other petrol hatches. 86PS is in the league of Swift and that is good for this car.
Just like most of the thoughts on the forum, the front is a world away from the sides and rear. What blew me away was the space behind. It was something else for a hatch and to beat that , the underseat storage space, courtesy the fuel tank which is placed under the front seats.

The underbody is quite different since the fuel tank is not in the usual place. The exhaust system ends up at the edge of the underbody which is right beneath the drivers door sill. It has a small resonator/muffler there(just like the Mahindra jeeps) and then agains bends to the muffler which is behind the rear axle.

The red is the most suitable for this car as the white looked more like water color.

Yes, compared to the Figo, pricing is high but is kinda justified accrding to me in the space and power departments.

Pricing info attached

[suhaas307]

So let me get this straight. The Sail LT ABS which costs 6.62 (ex-showroom) in Delhi actually costs 6.8 (ex-showroom) in Bangalore. Everywhere else, the Sail may seem like it's right on the edge of being overpriced.

I was thoroughly kicked when I heard that the price for the top-end would be 6.6 (ex-showroom) but now with a bloated OTR price, especially in Bangalore, I don't see why people would 'trust' a Chevrolet product instead of a Maruti product that costs 20k more and sells in 5 digit numbers every month.

It still remains a VFM product when you consider cars like the Etios Liva GD. But even then, the Liva has the backing of the T badge. The Sail does not have that sort of backing. I will still say that the 20k over the Liva is justified simply because its a better appointed product (better looking < subjective > inside / out, lower NVH levels and more equipment) . The only thing working for the Liva is the T badge as far as I'm concerned. Same goes for the Swift and the Maruti badge.

I think this is a missed opportunity by GM, as far as pricing is concerned. And if I check the black box, I think I'll be able to tell why: GM had its crosshairs aimed at the Swift when they ideally should have aimed it at the Figo and Liva.

What they've done is offer a good product and price it in such a way that it undercuts the Swift by 20k or so in the hope that they would lure some customers away from Maruti showrooms. They intended to price it slightly lower than the Swift but in between everything else. It's marginally more expensive than the Liva even though it is equipped much better.

It's still a good buy, the Sail U-VA. But it could have been so much SO MUCH better if it had been priced 30-40k cheaper. Now that I've got my head straight. I hope you folks understand, my vision was initially clouded as I was expecting this sort of pricing (6.5 lakhs ex-showroom top-end)

This product has, or rather had the potential to rock the hatch segment. But with this sort of pricing, I think it will only nudge it, perhaps merely poke it from time to time. If Chevrolet does not correct it, the U-VA might run the risk of being reduced to an 'also-ran'. Hope that does not happen.

[sups]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Did a back to back TD of Sail vcdi / i20 crdi / Figo Tdci. Here's my observation:

Great observations kpzen. I wish you would have a back to back drive of Liva as well and posted your comments. Other than the interior, its quite a competent product.

[Yeldo]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I don't see why people would 'trust' a Chevrolet product instead of a Maruti product that costs 20k more and sells in 5 digit numbers every month.

What they've done is offer a good product and price it in such a way that it undercuts the Swift by 20k or so in the hope that they would lure some customers away from Maruti showrooms.

It's still a good buy, the Sail U-VA. But it could have been so much SO MUCH better if it had been priced 30-40k cheaper.

This product has, or rather had the potential to rock the hatch segment. But with this sort of pricing, I think it will only nudge it, perhaps merely poke it from time to time. If Chevrolet does not correct it, the U-VA might run the risk of being reduced to an 'also-ran'.

You have exactly put the facts down in black & white. At prices that are almost on par with the Ritz and slightly below the Swift, Chevrolet has missed the bus again, IMO.

Wonder why the Diesel Beat, inspite of its segment- first and frugal Diesel motor, good service/ warranty package and youthful looks, is middle- of - the road when it comes to sales figures?

Two Chevy products ruined by nonsensical pricing: not low enough to entice volume sales, not high enough to skim some money from lower sales that go with higher pricing.

After all, Rs. 25,000 might not sound B-I-G, but it is 5% of a 5 lac car!

[tj123]

In my opinion GM wanted to tap in the market by placing the Sail UVA in between the Swift , Liva & Figo. People looking for value will definitely go for the Figo because Sail UVA is 6.8 lacs ex show rooms in Bangalore and is around 80K over on the Ford Figo. On the road difference will be close to a lac, not sure how many will pay that extra for a plain Jane car. On the upper side of the competition Swift is quite modern and sporty and has quite a fan following which is difficult to penetrate.

I think GM should have kept a significant pricing advantage to lure both Swift & Figo's customers , its a clear miss by GM.

[Vdrive]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Looks & Design:
i20 = Sail > Figo

Interiors :
i20>Sail>Figo

Space - Interior
Sail>i20>Figo

Space - Boot
Figo>i20>Sail

Driveability
City
Figo>Sail>i20
Highway
i20 >> Figo = Sail

Ergonomics
Sail> i20 > Figo

Ride Quality
Sail> i20 > Figo

Highway manners

Figo > Sail = i20

VFM

Figo = Sail > i20

Swift and Punto seem to be left out. Summing up the reviews of all hatchbacks, Petrol and diesel, the Punto 90 hp appears to be the clear winner in almost all departments except pricing and drag race. ( May be diesels like i20, Swift, Ritz etc. got a chance in these ).

Tcdi LS at 5.92 lacs should claim the major share of sales volume. A detailed test drive report of Sail UVA is awaited.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by Vdrive

Summing up the reviews of all hatchbacks, Petrol and diesel, the Punto 90 hp appears to be the clear winner in almost all departments except pricing and drag race. ( May be diesels like i20, Swift, Ritz etc. got a chance in these ).

Tcdi LS at 5.92 lacs should claim the major share of sales volume. A detailed test drive report of Sail UVA is awaited.

The Punto is a great car, but I think it loses out on several aspects:

• It just isn't spacious enough given the competition now. Cars like the Liva, the Sail and even the Figo are actually much more spacious than the Punto.

• Cars like the Figo and Sail sore over the Punto in terms of drivability in the city. The Figo has decent bottom-end and the Sail's engine is tuned better than most MJD applications.

• The biggest problem with the Punto is the after-sales-service and this shows in the numbers it clocks every month. It's just not there among the 'selling' hatchbacks.

• So unless you LOVE the Punto for its appeal, it's hard to understand why anyone would buy it over some of the other cars here as it just isn't the 'complete-package'

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

It still remains a VFM product when you consider cars like the Etios Liva GD. But even then, the Liva has the backing of the T badge. The Sail does not have that sort of backing. I will still say that the 20k over the Liva is justified simply because its a better appointed product (better looking < subjective > inside / out, lower NVH levels and more equipment) . The only thing working for the Liva is the T badge as far as I'm concerned. Same goes for the Swift and the Maruti badge.

I think this is a missed opportunity by GM, as far as pricing is concerned. And if I check the black box, I think I'll be able to tell why: GM had its crosshairs aimed at the Swift when they ideally should have aimed it at the Figo and Liva.

What they've done is offer a good product and price it in such a way that it undercuts the Swift by 20k or so in the hope that they would lure some customers away from Maruti showrooms. They intended to price it slightly lower than the Swift but in between everything else. It's marginally more expensive than the Liva even though it is equipped much better.

It's still a good buy, the Sail U-VA. But it could have been so much SO MUCH better if it had been priced 30-40k cheaper. Now that I've got my head straight. I hope you folks understand, my vision was initially clouded as I was expecting this sort of pricing (6.5 lakhs ex-showroom top-end)

SAIL might still have an edge vis-a-vis Liva because Chevvy has the habit of offering discounts to customers who like to haggle on price (everyone does these days). I have a feeling that Chevvy has a jacked up ex-showroom price to offer some headroom to the dealers. Chevvy comes down easily by around Rs 30,000/- when you say that you are planning to buy some other car. That was my experience. Similar experience I had with Ford.

Toyota, on the other hand, refuses to reduce even one penny from their ex-showroom pricing in diesel models of Etios/Liva and claim that the dealers are actually working on wafer-thin margins. They don't even give away mud flaps for free unless some scheme is going on.

If you consider this discount possibility from Chevvy, the top end model of Sail will sell at around the same price of a Liva, if not lesser. And a feature-loaded Sail becomes a better deal than the frugal Liva any day, unless, of course someone is falling for the T-badge!

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The Punto is a great car, but I think it loses out on several aspects:

• It just isn't spacious enough given the competition now. Cars like the Liva, the Sail and even the Figo are actually much more spacious than the Punto.

• Cars like the Figo and Sail sore over the Punto in terms of drivability in the city. The Figo has decent bottom-end and the Sail's engine is tuned better than most MJD applications.

• The biggest problem with the Punto is the after-sales-service and this shows in the numbers it clocks every month. It's just not there among the 'selling' hatchbacks.
  

While Punto isn't exactly spacious but isn't cramped either. Its somewhere inbetween and ofcourse you get good boot space.
In terms of city ride Punto90 maynot be very responsive but highway performance is better I guess.
Keeping the service and sale aside, I think Punto is among the better all rounders. It scores in terms of build,dynamics, equipment and looks over Figo or UVA.

[anu21v]

Mod Note : Please use the EDIT or MULTI-QUOTE buttons instead of typing one post after another on the SAME THREAD! To know how to multi-quote, click here.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

The Punto is a great car, but I think it loses out on several aspects:

• It just isn't spacious enough given the competition now. Cars like the Liva, the Sail and even the Figo are actually much more spacious than the Punto.

• Cars like the Figo and Sail sore over the Punto in terms of drivability in the city. The Figo has decent bottom-end and the Sail's engine is tuned better than most MJD applications.

• The biggest problem with the Punto is the after-sales-service and this shows in the numbers it clocks every month. It's just not there among the 'selling' hatchbacks.

• So unless you LOVE the Punto for its appeal, it's hard to understand why anyone would buy it over some of the other cars here as it just isn't the 'complete-package'

Most likely Sail is going to replace Punto/Indica as the main alternative to the swift. Afterall there is a good demand for this 1.3 MJD engine fitted cars and someone who doesn't want to buy Swift and Ritz are left with the choice of picking service-Less Punto or sub-par-quality Indica. I think Sail is going to emerge as the main alternative with superior quality than Indica and Much Better dedicated service network of Cheve than Fiat's.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

Toyota, on the other hand, refuses to reduce even one penny from their ex-showroom pricing in diesel models of Etios/Liva and claim that the dealers are actually working on wafer-thin margins.

Its a myth as far as i know, I had once seen the Margin of a toyota dealer and was shocked to see double digit percentage margin on Innova. Don't think any other company offers so much dealer margin and many of them, including maruti/ford/tata, earn mebbe less than 3% margin range. Toyota dealers undoubtedly earn the most which also reflects in their superior showrooms and service quality.

Originally Posted by Turbokick

While Punto isn't exactly spacious but isn't cramped either. Its somewhere inbetween and ofcourse you get good boot space.
In terms of city ride Punto90 maynot be very responsive but highway performance is better I guess.
Keeping the service and sale aside, I think Punto is among the better all rounders. It scores in terms of build,dynamics, equipment and looks over Figo or UVA.

Completely agree, Punto is not low on space, In fact high sloping window sills give a feeling of security and premium-ness to inside even though interiors are very much dull. Punto's beauty and ride quality is unquestionable even though sluggish engine doesn't seem to exploit the dynamics of the car. Swift in that respect is a better calibrated engine than Polo (IMO). Nevertheless Punto's main problem is the Fiat Guys themselves. Even If they had to offer the car in less than 3 lakh i dont know who will take the risk with punto. Cheve's in-fact is a known service quality, Not too bad but not the top notch either, but still on the better side than average. Fiat management is solely responsible for the Punto Disaster. If i remember correctly Punto was launched at 3.99 Lakh pricing today's pricing is well above 4.9 Lakh just for the starting model. Punto is seriously high cost car considering one can buy i20 in that pricing.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

I was thoroughly kicked when I heard that the price for the top-end would be 6.6 (ex-showroom) but now with a bloated OTR price, especially in Bangalore, I don't see why people would 'trust' a Chevrolet product instead of a Maruti product that costs 20k more and sells in 5 digit numbers every month.

It still remains a VFM product when you consider cars like the Etios Liva GD. But even then, the Liva has the backing of the T badge. The Sail does not have that sort of backing. I will still say that the 20k over the Liva is justified simply because its a better appointed product (better looking < subjective > inside / out, lower NVH levels and more equipment) . The only thing working for the Liva is the T badge as far as I'm concerned. Same goes for the Swift and the Maruti badge.

I think this is a missed opportunity by GM, as far as pricing is concerned. And if I check the black box, I think I'll be able to tell why: GM had its crosshairs aimed at the Swift when they ideally should have aimed it at the Figo and Liva.

I just checked the today's newspaper and realized few things. They have mentioned something called 353 advantage, which basically translates into.
a) 3 year Cheve promise (Swift - NA) (Rs 13-15 thousand)
b) 5 year /150K Engine and Transmission warranty (Swift 2 years) (Rs 10 Thousand)
c) 3 year Warranty. (Swift 2 years) (Rs 5 thousand)

Apart from this they have offered "Flex-Flat" 60:40 split seat in all models which to my mind doesn't come as standard in swift. If only Chevy had taken all these out from the initial launch and made it roughly same level as Swift, they could have easily knocked down pricing by additional 40-45 thousand rupees and which is what their strategy should have been. I am sure we customers wouldn't mind missing out on these goodies as long as price was lower by 30+ thousand from swift.

[sups]

Originally Posted by anu21v

I just checked the today's newspaper and realized few things. They have mentioned something called 353 advantage, which basically translates into.
a) 3 year Cheve promise (Swift - NA) (Rs 13-15 thousand)

I dont think that 3 yrs chevy promise is included in the onroad price. It can be purchased separately at an additional cost.

As I mentioned earlier, overpriced liva GD (with ABS, no Airbag) now looks vfm. Including the 20K ongoing discount, it comes now in Pune at an onroad price of 6.7L. SAIL LS-ABS will be almost 65K more, but ofcourse with more features. I am OK with Liva's interiors, but the suspension noise and NVH issue in Liva is very irritating.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by sups

I dont think that 3 yrs chevy promise is included in the onroad price. It can be purchased separately at an additional cost.

As I mentioned earlier, overpriced liva GD (with ABS, no Airbag) now looks vfm. Including the 20K ongoing discount, it comes now in Pune at an onroad price of 6.7L. SAIL LS-ABS will be almost 65K more, but ofcourse with more features. I am OK with Liva's interiors, but the suspension noise and NVH issue in Liva is very irritating.

I rechecked the Newspaper (HT in Noida) for any hidden terms and conditions. It simply says Chevrolet Promise included with no reference to any additional cost in the advertisement.

Had I not been in the market of Sedan, Sail would have made perfect sense for me even with these pricing with these features included. My experience with Cheve has been that its very very low on maintenance, probably higher than only Tata. In 3.5+ (~40K Km) years of my UVA i have not spent more than 20K for service, maintenance etc all put together and had just one breakdown due to flooding, which was Serviced free of cost by cheve service guys under warranty without showing a fuss or asking questions

[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by sups

As I mentioned earlier, overpriced liva GD (with ABS, no Airbag) now looks vfm. Including the 20K ongoing discount, it comes now in Pune at an onroad price of 6.7L. SAIL LS-ABS will be almost 65K more, but ofcourse with more features. I am OK with Liva's interiors, but the suspension noise and NVH issue in Liva is very irritating.

Possibly you are right. You add about Rs 35K in the Liva GD and it gets almost as good as SAIL LS-ABS. Even then it comes cheaper by about Rs 30K.

But yes, you have to live with the NVH in Liva. But there is no suspension noise in the car. Only when you hit a pot-hole there is a THUD sound of something hitting something.

[sups]

Originally Posted by anu21v

I rechecked the Newspaper (HT in Noida) for any hidden terms and conditions. It simply says Chevrolet Promise included with no reference to any additional cost in the advertisement.

Had I not been in the market of Sedan, Sail would have made perfect sense for me even with these pricing with these features included. My experience with Cheve has been that its very very low on maintenance

Thanks for pointing that out, I will check it on Monday with the dealers. If Chevy promise is included in it, then it will be lot better. And Chevy should highlight it separately in that case. It can save a lot on maintenance.

You experience on low service cost gives me more confidence to go with chevy. I think some negotiation with Chevy and a back to back testdrive of sail and liva is all that is left out at this stage for me. Testdrive diesel sail is still not available in Pune still, quite surprising though. I see the Bangalore chevy dealers more active than those in Pune.

Originally Posted by subratasenn

But there is no suspension noise in the car. Only when you hit a pot-hole there is a THUD sound of something hitting something

Yes, I was talking about the thud noise while hitting a pothole, after all there are no shortage of potholes in our roads .