[subratasenn]

Originally Posted by sups

You experience on low service cost gives me more confidence to go with chevy. I think some negotiation with Chevy and a back to back testdrive of sail and liva is all that is left out at this stage for me. Testdrive diesel sail is still not available in Pune still, quite surprising though. I see the Bangalore chevy dealers more active than those in Pune.

Service cost is very low for Etios/Liva too, if you go for Toyota "Smile" scheme, costing Rs 1800/- per year. Takes care of oil/ oil filter change and labour. Also this scheme offers you 50% off on wheel alignment, balancing and any other labour cost. Also a free wash when you renew the scheme.

Would love to read your observations from back to back TDs of Liva and Sail. Would look forward to that.

Just for better understanding of Etios, you may go through Amalji's thread http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2883344

Think he has judged the car damn well with his 21,000+ km

[ani_meher]

I test drove the Sail today, and here are my observations, as a current beat diesel owner:

Pros:
1. 80KMPH @ about 2k rpm as against @2.8-3k rpm in beat.
2. No elbowing the passenger when changing gears
3. Higher sitting position
4. Electronically adjusted mirrors
5. Large rear seat area and boot

Cons:
1. Most irritating was the clutch position. There is NO space at the sides to tilt your foot while driving in traffic/city. The Beat has a little gap at the left of clutch, so I rest my foot there when it is not required to press the clutch. Here, you either keep foot on clutch or remove your foot from the clutch and place it near you. I can see it becoming cumbersome in city driving.
2. Second most irritant was the horn buttons. They are two thumb sized buttons on both sides of the wheel, but when you are turning, then you have to search furiously for the horn while keeping eye on the road. A big horn pad would have been nice.
2. Slight vibrations on steering wheels - but this could be because the vehicle is new, and the tire pressure may not be accurate.
3. Gear throw is short as compared to beat. I think an arm rest would suit well.
4. Less 'desirable'. Somehow won't make your neighbors envious

I was reminded of figo a lot of times while test driving Sail. While the dashboard is said to be in Dual Cockpit fashion, it is not as wild as Beat, and brown color really dumbs it down. Somehow interiors are not that bright or attractive as they could have been.

I appreciate Chevy to bring the base diesel with driver airbag, but at 6.93L on road, personally I would think twice and even wait for discounts.

[sups]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

2. Slight vibrations on steering wheels - but this could be because the vehicle is new, and the tire pressure may not be accurate

Now thats a matter of concern. A well engineered new diesel vehicle should not have any vibration in the steering wheel at idle. Did you find the vibration in the gear lever as well?

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by sups

Now thats a matter of concern. A well engineered new diesel vehicle should not have any vibration in the steering wheel at idle. Did you find the vibration in the gear lever as well?

No. I specifically checked while moving as well as while stationary, whether vibrations were there on the gear level, but there were none. But the steering wheel vibrations were very easily noticed.

[Balaji31582]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

I test drove the Sail today, and here are my observations, [b]as a current beat diesel owner:
=========
I appreciate Chevy to bring the base diesel with driver airbag, but at 6.93L on road, personally I would think twice and even wait for discounts.

hi ani_meher
Sorry for the Off topic. I too own a beat diesel. I reach 80 KMPH in 5th gear at 2000-2200 rpm. Could you please tell which gear are you referring here?

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by ani_meher

2. Slight vibrations on steering wheels - but this could be because the vehicle is new, and the tire pressure may not be accurate.
3. Gear throw is short as compared to beat. I think an arm rest would suit well.

Hi ani_meher

Your views are interesting and very similar to mine.

2. We did not experience steering-judder / vibration on our drive in the Sail. There was a certain amount of vibration that was felt but only when we were negotiating a rather large pot-hole that was capable of puncturing a car's tyre on a bad day. We also experienced it when driving over very sharp / hard stones / pebbles when we had taken it OTR for a short distance.

3. I found the gear-lever to be placed imperfectly. I'd say it was an inch or two, far back. It should have ideally been placed closer to the center-console. Rehaan found it perfectly placed though. I've also got to say that I thoroughly enjoyed working through the ratios. They were short and very sure-slotting. The only problem was the clutch. Not the clutch per-se, but the lack of space to rest your left foot, let alone the lack of a deal pedal. To make matters worse, I found the floor to be quite a distance from the pedal so using the clutch is almost a workout for your left knee, not so much on the calf-muscles thankfully

What's your take on the ride-quality by the way, curious as you haven't mentioned it. I think its one of the car's strong-suits.

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by sups

Great observations kpzen. I wish you would have a back to back drive of Liva as well and posted your comments. Other than the interior, its quite a competent product.

Thanks.
Drove the Liva today. Will put up a comparison report in detail soon.

Originally Posted by Vdrive

Swift and Punto seem to be left out. Summing up the reviews of all hatchbacks, Petrol and diesel, the Punto 90 hp appears to be the clear winner in almost all departments except pricing and drag race. ( May be diesels like i20, Swift, Ritz etc. got a chance in these ).

Tcdi LS at 5.92 lacs should claim the major share of sales volume. A detailed test drive report of Sail UVA is awaited.

Main criteria was to compare diesels (with ABS) < 7lacs category.
(i20 got in because i called up Hyundai for i20 sportz price and they offered me a TD.)
Swift Zdi at 7.5 lacs OTR is not worth it IMHO.

Punto only appears to be a clear winner. Practically it isn't, thanks to FIAT.

Originally Posted by Turbokick

While Punto isn't exactly spacious but isn't cramped either. Its somewhere in between and ofcourse you get good boot space.
In terms of city ride Punto90 maynot be very responsive but highway performance is better I guess.
Keeping the service and sale aside, I think Punto is among the better all rounders. It scores in terms of build,dynamics, equipment and looks over Figo or UVA.

For any auto or non auto product to be successful, service back up is essential.

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Ride Quality
Sail> i20 > Figo

Highway manners

Figo > Sail = i20

I am surprised by seeing Figo lower than i20 in terms of ride quality. i20's suspension is soft alright but it does feel unsettled at speed. Figo has got a stiff suspension but the overall ride quality is composed IMO. Especially at speed Figo rides flat. That's what I have observed.
Only issue with Figo over rough roads is its low GC. i20 doesn't have any such issue here.

Though its too early to comment but isn't Sail's straightline stability very good as per most reviews? Same can't be said about i20 which feels little bouncy and nervous (as per big hatches)

[ani_meher]

Originally Posted by Balaji31582

hi ani_meher
Sorry for the Off topic. I too own a beat diesel. I reach 80 KMPH in 5th gear at 2000-2200 rpm. Could you please tell which gear are you referring here?

I am referring to the 5th gear only! In my beat the 80kmph comes at about 2.8k rpm. My car is at service station, so I'll now call them regarding this.

[sups]

Originally Posted by anu21v

I rechecked the Newspaper (HT in Noida) for any hidden terms and conditions. It simply says Chevrolet Promise included with no reference to any additional cost in the advertisement.

Checked today with the Pune Chevy dealers.

LS-ABS diesel onroad: 7.31L
LT diesel onroad: 7.81L

Chevy promise is NOT included in the price as shown in the advertisement. Infact they have not yet got the pricing info for Chevy promise.

[rock75]

When they start giving discounts for petrol, i might be interested to buy one, or may be wait for sail sedan/brio sedan, however If one is on a budget , ford figo diesel might beat sail diesel in stakes.

[ani_meher]

On my last Beat diesel statement, I confirm that my car too does 80-100kmph at about 2k only. Sorry for the error in my impressions post. So one less point for Sail!

[gauravdgr8]

Almost everyone on the forum is comparing this car to everything else but the Vista. Seems people seriously doubt the capability of the vehicle. Is it just the TATA factor?

Well, I compared the features of the Sail U-VA, LS ABS variant vs the Vista, VX variant.

Absolutely everything that is offered on the Sail U-VA is also available on the Vista. However, below is the list of features missing on the Sail U-VA LS ABS vs the Vista VX:

1. Rear Wiper
2. Rear Washer and Defogger
3. Power Outlet
4. Steering mounted controls
5. Remote Keyless Entry

Now comparing the price of each of the cars in Raipur, here is what I have

Sail U-VA LS ABS : 6,33,xxx
Vista VX : 5,86,xxx

Now we know that both cars are running with the same set of tuning (more or less), wherein turbo kicks in at 1750 rpm, however on the U-VA, you get a little more torque.

Vista is a heavier car and so is the U-VA at 1124 kgs.

So the question is, whether is it ok to pay 47k more for more or less the same engine, with some lesser features, some of them being very useful for day to day use and a little bigger boot.

If yes, then people should actually shift the focus from Swift and go more towards the Sail as it is offering the ABS with a bigger boot at more or less the same price. Makes sense?

BTW, the wheelbase for the U-VA is 5 mm lesser than the Vista. So, the car seems to be equally spacious.

Note: Data taken from respective vehicle websites.

[anu21v]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

Almost everyone on the forum is comparing this car to everything else but the Vista. Seems people seriously doubt the capability of the vehicle. Is it just the TATA factor?

Well, I compared the features of the Sail U-VA, LS ABS variant vs the Vista, VX variant.

Absolutely everything that is offered on the Sail U-VA is also available on the Vista. However, below is the list of features missing on the Sail U-VA LS ABS vs the Vista VX:
...
...

Vista is a heavier car and so is the U-VA at 1124 kgs.

So the question is, whether is it ok to pay 47k more for more or less the same engine, with some lesser features, some of them being very useful for day to day use and a little bigger boot.
...
...

BTW, the wheelbase for the U-VA is 5 mm lesser than the Vista. So, the car seems to be equally spacious.

First of all, to me Wheelbase is not everything. Length-wise Indica is Smaller by almost 15 CM. Tata Vehicles on Paper Look good, but realtime performance or quality hardly scores anywhere. Granted the Spares are Cheapest of the Lost, but that cheapness of part cost is precisely the reason why car Squeaks or remains stranded on roadside more than the competition. Its not that Tata Quality is bad, its just that its not uniform Quality so one is never sure what car has been handed to him.

I have misfortune of driving an Indica Vista of a friend for quite a number of times and boy do the suspension Squeaks, Not just suspension but the entire Driver and Passenger seats squeak on everyone small pothole. On the top of it, the braking is so imprecise that you never have the confidence whether the vehicle will stop when required. Also, its just a myth that Vista is calibrated roughly same as Sail. Vista calibration is not good to me, Swift is better calibrated than Punto and Vista Both, Sail's calibration seems on the better side as per so many reviews.


Weight though can be a good comparison for Sturdiness but I wouldn't want to get into engineering complexities. A heavier 1650 KG Quanto might not be as safe as 890 Kg Liva if designed properly. (this is not to say LIVA is good on Crash norms). To me Indian manufacturers are yet to come to terms with Crash Norms, which every other manufacturer including Hyundai/Suzuki has already perfected. Hyundai/Maruti have perfected it so much that they can design two sets of i10/i20 or swift cars, one which complies with crash norms of certain countries it sell (Europe/China) and one which doesn't have to comply with any sort of crash norms, might not even meet 2-Star rating. That is kind of vehicle precisely my friend comes to India shores, Guess Indian Government need to have some sort of Crash Norms regulation as well along with BS norms.

Was just scouting for weight data in net and it looks like Indian sail if at all has gone up in the weight compared to its global counterpart for same config which gives me the feeling that 4 Star C-NCAP Rating is intact Just for that Crash-Norm compliant cage I would pay 15-20 K extra as compared to Swift and Liva, but surely thats just me.


Note: This Friend of mine is already on verge of selling away his 1.5 year old vista and planning to checkout Sail very soon.

[sups]

Originally Posted by gauravdgr8

Almost everyone on the forum is comparing this car to everything else but the Vista. Seems people seriously doubt the capability of the vehicle. Is it just the TATA factor?

Well, I compared the features of the Sail U-VA, LS ABS variant vs the Vista, VX variant.

Comparing price versus features, it is almost impossible to beat Vista and for that matter Manza as well. A few months back I test drove Liva GD and Vista quadrajet ABS model back to back. Loved the comfort offerred by Vista, the rear seat is like a sofa, very comfortable indeed. The interiors have also improved by leaps and bound compared to previous gen indicas. As soon as I got into the car, I was almost sure to buy it. But when I started driving, it was a different experience altogether. It is much more silent than a liva, but the steering feel, braking was so much better in a liva. And then the reliability. Its not that toyota/maruti cars dont break down. Buts its almost certain that with a vista/indigo, you are bound to invite niggling issues very soon. My close friend's indigo spent most of the time in service centre, than with him.

I love manza/vista so much, but I am scared to buy one.

Sorry for the off topic, the post ideally should not have been in this thread.