[jessie007]

Might be a bit off topic, but since the discussion involves comparing the Sail U-VA to Swift, Liva, Vista, etc, I think the following thread would be useful.

I’ve compared features of major hatchbacks within a certain price range, in this thread.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...khs-range.html

The comparison includes the following cars / variants:

Model: Variant (P/D)

Fabia: Ambition +
Figo: Titanium
G. Punto: Dynamic
i20: Sportz / Magna(O)
Liva: V / GD (SP)
Micra: XV / XV Premium
Polo: Comfortline
Sail U-VA: LT - ABS
Swift: Zxi / Zdi
Indica Vista: GVX / ZX
Jazz: Base

[anu21v]

Just saw this commercial of the car. Couldn't make out much but Liked the jingle tune. Catchy. Searched over youtube to find another surprising thing. They have got something called Chevroletube-' Chevrolet India Channel' on you tube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWMNi...4&feature=plcp

There was another similar Ad of Pernod-Rica which featured New Fiesta...very similar execution but different messages.

[Abhi_abarth]

Got to see the car in flesh yesterday at Kun-United, Kothaguda X Roads. We visited the Hyundai showroom on the opposite road to finalize i20 for my friend. We thought of checking the Sail U-VA too. There was one white LT-ABS version (top end I think) parked outside decorated with a ribbon. We sat inside to check the cabin space and equipment quality. Very impressive, GM has done a good job here. The leg room was huge and seats comfortable too. The staff were kind enough to allow us a test drive though it was closing time then.

My take : A perfect value for money car if you can live without those bells and whistles which the competition provides (read i20 Magna (O) and Swift vdi etc). The pricing is mouth watering. In Hyd the swift vdi costs 7.8 OTR, i20 Magna (O) 7.8 and you won't get a music system on the swift either. The Sail U-VA fully loaded car costs 7.8 OTR. (alloy wheels, ABS, air-bags etc).

[sups]

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

My take : A perfect value for money car if you can live without those bells and whistles which the competition provides (read i20 Magna (O) and Swift vdi etc).

How was the ride, engine, NVH etc vis a vis i20 that your friend was about to buy? Some more details would help.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by anu21v

Just saw this commercial of the car. Couldn't make out much but Liked the jingle tune. Catchy. Searched over Youtube to find another surprising thing. They have got something called Chevroletube-' Chevrolet India Channel' on you tube.

http://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=KWMNi...4&feature=plcp


There was another similar Ad of Pernod-Rica which featured New Fiesta...very similar execution but different messages.

Nice ad, but makes the car look even more boring than it actually is. They should have only asked the brighter coloured cars for the ad.

IMO - the design is already atleast a generation or two old - which completly spoils the desirability factor. Might consider it as a last option if the automatic version is out soon with a competent gearbox.

Originally Posted by Abhi_abarth

My take : A perfect value for money car if you can live without those bells and whistles which the competition provides (read i20 Magna (O) and Swift vdi etc). The pricing is mouth watering. In Hyd the swift vdi costs 7.8 OTR, i20 Magna (O) 7.8 and you won't get a music system on the swift either. The Sail U-VA fully loaded car costs 7.8 OTR. (alloy wheels, ABS, air-bags etc).

Swift VDI costs 7.19. Correcting the price. Dzire costs 7.9. The showroom pricing catalogues show it as 7.25 something. One needs to calculate the life tax at 12%. the catalogues will have something around 15% and you need to deduct the handling charges.

If i am not wrong. Swift VDI comes with Music system and Electrically outside rear view mirrors and Power windows.

I agree that Swift is expensive but down the line you would reap the same benifits. It might be either resale value or service/spares availability.

Just predicting: What would happen if the sail UVA goes the old UVA way and be the market dud? It would cost a bomb to maintain such vehicle. However it would atelast be 2 years down the line.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

If i am not wrong. Swift VDI comes with Music system and Electrically outside rear view mirrors and Power windows.

I agree that Swift is expensive but down the line you would reap the same benifits. It might be either resale value or service/spares availability.

But the Swift VDI does not come with Airbags and ABS - the additions of which - negates the price-difference somewhat.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Just predicting: What would happen if the sail UVA goes the old UVA way and be the market dud? It would cost a bomb to maintain such vehicle. However it would atelast be 2 years down the line.

The Sail is being heavily localized so I don't think it's going to be too expensive to maintain in the long run, even if it does become a dud in the market. You might just have to wait a little longer for the availability of parts but even that should be a few cases.

As I see it, the appeal-loaded Swift makes a compelling case for itself if the car is not going to be driven by a big families. Younger / smaller families would be more than happy with a Swift as the lack of rear leg-room / small boot will not affect them much. The after-sales-service is a huge bonus. It's a great car for a working professional in his 30s.

But a slightly larger / older family that's looking to step-up from their one car, (for example a Wagon-R), the Sail makes great sense.

[sups]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Just predicting: What would happen if the sail UVA goes the old UVA way and be the market dud? It would cost a bomb to maintain such vehicle. However it would atelast be 2 years down the line.

One of the main reason why old UVA was a market dud was because of lack of diesel engine. So, it is not very likely this time, hopefully. Even our leader Swift has most of the sales in diesel variant only.

@suhaas: What is the % localization of parts for SAIL, any idea?

Originally Posted by sups

One of the main reason why old UVA was a market dud was because of lack of diesel engine. So, it is not very likely this time, hopefully. Even our leader Swift has most of the sales in diesel variant only.

@suhaas: What is the % localization of parts for SAIL, any idea?

It doesnt matter whether you have petrol or diesel. You need to have lots of goodwill to sell your cars. See Punto's, Linea's, optra's, Cruze etc. They all have Diesel power, but the volumes are still less.

Originally Posted by suhaas307

But the Swift VDI does not come with Airbags and ABS - the additions of which - negates the price-difference somewhat.

The Sail is being heavily localized so I don't think it's going to be too expensive to maintain in the long run, even if it does become a dud in the market. You might just have to wait a little longer for the availability of parts but even that should be a few cases.

But a slightly larger / older family that's looking to step-up from their one car, (for example a Wagon-R), the Sail makes great sense.

A swift is a swift. It sells 15K per month. Agreed that Swift doesnt have Airbags in VDI model but, it has something else. A good interior with the best service and goodwill. So its asking a premium. I have seen UVA's are sold for 1.4L Still Swift 2006 petrol cars command a premium of 2.75L.

Earlier, Swift had only petrol option. Even those days, swift used to command premium and some waiting period. i hope you remember.

Localizatioin is not the key for cheaper spares. Its the volume. If it hardly sells, why does any vendor prefer to stock its spares.

I am not against any model. It was a comment made by a prospective customer. Thats it. it is a VFM product but cannot say how the market perceives such products.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by sups

@suhaas: What is the % localization of parts for SAIL, any idea?

We were not provided with the exact figure, but we were told that there is a fair amount of localization of parts for the Sail.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

It doesnt matter whether you have petrol or diesel. You need to have lots of goodwill to sell your cars. See Punto's, Linea's, optra's, Cruze etc. They all have Diesel power, but the volumes are still less.

There are very few companies that can get away with selling only petrol engines. One is Hyundai. Their i10 logs fantastic numbers in the sales charts even today. Even the i20 petrol sells quite decently. Maruti is another company. The top sellers are generally petrols and they are Marutis! No prizes for guessing.

The other company is Honda. The City is still the preferred sedan for those looking for a petrol car in the C+ segment. The numbers speak for themselves. The Brio is also selling decently.

Let's not even bring Fiat into the equation. The after-sales-service is a huge let-down, but they've got cars that could potentially take the market by storm!

The Optra magnum was at the wrong place at the wrong time. it came at a time when the petrol / diesel divide wasn't as massive as it is now. The Cruze sells decently and even pipped the other cars in the segment. But when the prices were jacked up, sales dropped.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

A swift is a swift. It sells 15K per month. Agreed that Swift doesnt have Airbags in VDI model but, it has something else. A good interior with the best service and goodwill. So its asking a premium. I have seen UVA's are sold for 1.4L Still Swift 2006 petrol cars command a premium of 2.75L.

Good interior? Well, it only looks good. Quality wise, it's still not brilliant. In fact, it's not much better than some Tatas out there. It's only missing those panel gaps you find on the Vista every now and then. In terms of finish, it's still not par. The windows are of very thin material so NVH levels are just about par. The knobs are fiddly and the stalks are questionable, especially for the premium it commands. I'd say the Sail is put together well, perhaps slightly better than the Swift. You do see some rough edges in the U-VA, but you've got to look hard and comb the interior more than your average-Joe would.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Earlier, Swift had only petrol option. Even those days, swift used to command premium and some waiting period. i hope you remember.

The Swift was and still is a revelation of sorts. It's our 21st Century Maruti 800 if you will. The diesel was a decent seller till a few years back, but it shot up considerably once the Dzire was launched and petrol prices sky-rocketed.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Localizatioin is not the key for cheaper spares. Its the volume. If it hardly sells, why does any vendor prefer to stock its spares.

Are you sure?

Localization automatically translates to cheaper costs because umm, they're localized. If a model that is being built in India requires spares, it will probably not be very expensive because the spares are also built here. For a SKD or an import, it could be more because the part will have to be sourced within the country for availability / stock or it will have to be imported I suppose. It also depends on the part specifically.

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Chevrolet has no service [compared to maruti]

Chevrolet offers warranty coverage is for 3 years / 100,000 kms. The drive-train is covered for 5 years / 150,000 kms! At additional cost, Chevrolet Promise' is offered for 3 years / 45,000 kms.

By the virtue of a wide service network and strong presence for nearly three decades, Maruti service is the Swift's trump-card. Not to mention cheaper spares. But Chevrolet has improved over the years and I personally know several Chevy owners who are extremely pleased with their Cruzes / Beats etc.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Sail UVA is new product, so add R&D cost in car. In swift, the R&D cost is less. so its a profit for manufacturer.

The U-VA was launched in China in 2010 and has consistently clocked numbers in excess of 30k units every month. The Chinese and Indian Sails aren't too different from each other. Whatever massive R&D costs are there, has been already incurred by GM.

That said, the U-VA had to undergo quite a bit of testing and homologation in India before it was launched. But I don't think it would be much different from other cars out there.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Spares availability. No problem for swift. For UVA, god knows.

This is again because of the incredibly wide service network that Maruti can boast of.

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

Regarding the spares cost. Even if there is 100 % localization of Kizashi, do you think you will get spares of kizashi as easily as you get for a swift? If your answer to this question is yes, then i cant explain. Just joking.

The Kizashi is a CBU. Plus, it was priced in the 20 lakh bracket. I don't think it would be fair to compare the prices / availability of spare-parts of a car in the 20 lakh segment and a car in the 5-8 lakh segment.

Also if it was not just assembled but built here, parts would be certainly available more easily than if it were to be imported. That's a given.

[sups]

Its an interesting discussion. I think it has boiled down to the point of Chevy service issues /spare part cost in India and how much it would affect the future of an otherwise competent vehicle SAIL sale in India. Only chevy owners in tbhp can actually answer that point. I have so far owned a Santro & Getz, and would be buying a SAIL/Liva/... diesel vehicle in next couple of weeks. A pole may give some reflection in this fact, where actual chevy owners can rate their experience.

[mi2n]

Originally Posted by gemi_kk

The reasons for my deduction are as follows.
Chevrolet has no service [compared to maruti]
Sail UVA is new product, so add R&D cost in car. In swift, the R&D cost is less. so its a profit for manufacturer.
Spares availability. No problem for swift. For UVA, god knows.

Regarding the spares cost. Even if there is 100 % localization of Kizashi, do you think you will get spares of kizashi as easily as you get for a swift? If your answer to this question is yes, then i cant explain. Just joking.

The volumes are important. Under any circumstances. This makes the car a good package in the long run.

Firstly, I do agree totally with you that volumes translate to easier /cheaper spares. However, this is a school of thought that dates back to the OPEL,DAEWOO,FORD(early) days, when most of the spares,parts and components used to be sourced from abroad. However, as suhaas307 has rightly mentioned, localization does make things better. Moreover, availability of spares should not be a primary deciding factor for a car that has launched a week back. Rest assured, even if it is a market dud, you will get spares easily for the next 5-6 years atleast if not a decade. That should put to rest any concerns a prospective owner has regarding availability of spares.

Your other three points, however, does seem half baked.
1. Chevy has enough service centers to cater to the number of chevy vehicles on road. They are, atleast, as competent as any maruti/hyundai a.s.s. GM spares are also reasonably priced. My experience with Hyundai and Chevy a.s.s. has been quite similar barring the fact that chevy a.s.s. is a bit more transparent. However, with M.A.S.S. you would often end up feeling like a retail customer in a wholesale market.
2. The SAIL is no new car, GMI has not seemingly done too much with the original(not really) SAIC SAIL except for maybe plonking in the Multijet. So, your R&D cost theory is somewhat flawed. This is why, most of us expected a bit leaner pricing in the first place.
3. The comparison of Swift with Kizashi is completely out of context. If Kizashi was localized then it would not have been such a dud in the first place. The UVA is a hatchback and not a 20 lac sedan, even if it is a dud, it will still sell 500-1000 units a month and knowing Chevy, the U-VA is here to stay for the next 5 years even in the worst case scenario.

I do not like the SAIL U-VA, I would like the SAIL sedan only if it comes with the outgoing AVEO sedan's interiors. I like cars that show character(visually). I also do not like manufacturers treating the Indian market differently when it comes to their product portfolio. We deserve the latest generation global products, albeit stripped down for obvious reasons. That would still be way better than getting old, discontinued models being dumped upon us. Really expected Chevy to launch the Sonic instead of this re-repackaged OPEL of the 1990's.

[ajay9252]

Will Sail define the moment for GM ? I have been reading a lot of good reviews on this car, especially its design. However, i still believe GM has given us yet outdated design - too boxy. And the interiors seem no match for the Swift top end too.
I assume that the diesel engines have given GM The required volume boost. There are several folks in my network who have recently purchased Beat Diesel.
The real question, per my opinion, remains whether GM will be able to service the cars in the same manner as, say, Maruti or Hyundai.

[sups]

Finally, after last few days effort, I could get my hands on white SAIL LT diesel for about 3 km as passenger at the back and another 3 km as a driver. I drive a Getz petrol now and I will finalize between SAIL LS ABS diesel or a Liva GD (with ABS, but no airbags) within next one to two weeks. I wanted to have a back to back test drive of the Liva as well, but that was not possible as it was almost dark. So, I will put my impressions based on my test drive experience six months back.

1. Crank the multijet in SAIL, and it comes to live with a mild purr. Impressive job done by Chevy. At standstill, no vibration in gear lever, but a very very mild vibration in steering. In comparison, Liva makes more sound during startup, but gear lever and steering is totally vibration free.

2. The doors in SAIL are thicker than Liva. When the doors are closed with a little more force than usual, there is a "clanky" sound. It gave me an impression that build is better than Liva for sure, but not by a big margin.

3. Illuminated front console with the speedometer is a pleasure to see. Liva's console is a pure eyesore, in comparison. Omission of a tacho in liva is a crime.

4. Now the steering. Its all the way Liva, so meaty and smooth. SAIL steering is also good, but I found Liva's better.

5. City driving is a breeze both in SAIL and Liva with Liva more comfortable to drive at lower rpms. The turbolag in SAIL is very tolerable, and once the rpm build up, it has some serious power. NVH level is very well controlled in SAIL and much better than that of Liva at moderate speeds. I did some sharp overtaking with lots of confidence. Breaks are very very sure footed. Liva is marginally better in brakes though, but its no deal breaker.

6. Liva has better visibility from the drivers seat due to raised dash of sail.

7. Back seat leg room is more spacious than Liva, may be slightly less than Etios. Also, Liva back seats are thin compared to my liking. Extra padding is very much needed in Liva. SAIL back seats are not as thin, but good thick seat cover would be very welcome change.

8. Ride quality at back, which is my major requirement, is good in sail, definitely better than my existing Getz in terms of body roll and bounciness. It did not crash through the moderately big size holes as in a Liva. And I felt that it filtered the sudden bumps better than Liva. But, I need to drive a Liva again to recheck this. I want a car with a palio-like ride but with good *** (no fiat, skoda, volkswagen). May be I am asking too much.

Cutting short, I liked SAIL, but still confused if I should go ahead with a Liva or SAIL. Liva GD is 60-65K less (onroad) as compared to SAIL LS-ABS at 7.31L on road. Not even a mud flap is free in SAIL and now has a waiting time of 1.5 months. Should I go for a Liva with a very good *** or a SAIL with mediocre *** is something to be decided.

Chevy promise cost is not yet announced, but will be about 22K extra.