[GTO]

Mod Note: Guys, enough with the discussion on the last row's safety. We will have those posts moved to a new thread. Anymore out here will be straightaway deleted.

@ BHPians: Please report such posts via https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/annou...t-quality.html (Report Posts : Contribute in Maintaining Team-BHP's post quality)

Thanks for the support & understanding

[shortbread]

One after the other, the Safari threads have been on fire!

Shows how evocative the name tag is in the Indian automotive circles. The Safari is perhaps one of India's most iconic automotive brands second only to the Bullet.

Opinions and their counter have been flowing thick and fast from people sitting on both sides of the fence. In some ways this launch has been a much needed kick to invigorate the Indian automotive enthusiast after a difficult 2020.

And all this even before the prices have been announced!

Only time will tell if the latest iteration will find success in the market or not, but happy to see this energy back in Team bhp again.

[apachelongbow]

For all those doubting the off-road capability of the Safari, this video may provide a fair assessment of its capabilities.

https://youtu.be/VYRE8eoLyJc

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Aditya

2021 Tata Safari Review

What a fantastic review. Thanks for sharing this. Rating it 5 stars as usual. I have liked the car since concept & I love it with the Safari name. If there's one car that can hold this name for next few years to come - its this one. Given there is no other large car coming up from Tata for foreseeable future - this one sure is a worthy bearer of the Safari badge. Add an AWD in near future and its golden!

Originally Posted by Aditya

Seatbacks can be folded down almost flat by pulling on the straps:

I'm a bit curious about this one. I have not seen personally of course. But I'd suspect its the black handles that would be used to flip the back down. The straps would be usable to simply pull the seat-back upright again. Rather simple & convenient design.

There seem to be a lot of small thoughtful things in this car that will go a long way in making the car ownership a pleasant one on a daily basis. Seems to get most basics right. Its rather stupid to omit desirable items like wireless charging pad in this car. I agree that a very tiny % of consumers own wire-less charging enabled phones. But its a USP in most cars today. Cooled seats & wireless charging are desirable in the scheme of things because - they are available in a car like the Sonet - that costs HALF the price. It influences the customer in the showroom remarkably. Even when its actually not going to make a big difference in a daily usage pattern.

Tata really - please update these service intervals. Its very inconvenient to take the car for service to do NOTHING.

[VKumar]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

fair assessment

The fair assessment says that there is nothing special being done in this video. For that matter, any ESP and TCS equipped FWD with a decent GC can do what all is done in this video. Most of the times, especially in the slush and all, the momentum did the job.

In the axle twister, until you make one driving wheel rise in the air, with very less momentum - even an Alto will pass through. That said, only one point was there, where it felt like the Safari did something more than any other soft roader unequipped with ESP and TCS, that is here.

The SUV was indeed, slow. Hence no momentum advantage, if the wheel articulation had been lower, or the ESP was not aggressive enough, the SUV would have never come out with the ease it came out here

You can take it to Leh, Bhutan, Tawang etc, even in slight snowfall. It will go anywhere, until you dig into the sand or try to climb a slope on black ice (But most of the 4x4s with open diffs also will fail in those situations). My experience says that nice FWD with decent suspension and an aggressive ESP, when coupled with snow chains on front wheels - can take you real deep in snow, and bring back too.

It's not an issue at all with any UV equipped with ESP and having a heavy engine on the front axle. The situation turns tricky, only when the surface has poor grip and you also try to power out with a hard foot. My experience with FWD SUVs (XUV reference) says that, when situation turns tricky, simply back off and use the momentum and the TCS will assure that you complete the ramp climb - gracefully (Note, this rule does not apply on the snow)

If TCS is not there and then you get stuck on a low grip ramp with 5 on board, then this happens to you in a FWD UV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6FNy5fHyfU

The brown Ecosport here has 2 disadvantages, which Safari doesn't have:

• Lower weight on the front wheels, it's a petrol Ecoboost. Safari has the massive 2.0 diesel atop the driving wheels
• Less aggressive ESP, in Tata cars, the ESP very aggressively brakes the driving wheels, in this Ecosport, it has hardly worked

[Reinhard]

This is not the first heavy FWD car. While a rear wheel drive is always better at pushing loads up & fun to drive, FWDs are becoming omnipresent & purists like us have to accept it some day.

As a simple example - the Mahindra Marazzo (Kerb weight is 1650 odd KGs) - a pretty heavy people mover hauls a packed cabin with a small 1.5L engine & FWD. I have not seen a single example where it fails on a parking ramp. I don't think just FWD is enough to completely undo the better things that the Safari has on offer. We are fixating too much on just 1 item. I really hope TML comes with an AWD for this car within an year for the purists. Certainly not identical to a full fledged B/W 4x4 with low ratio like the previous Safari. But still would go a long way in establishing the credentials.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Axe77

In the captain chair version:

1. With the last row folded (and if needed one middle row seat pushed forward, is it easy to put our typical roadies into the rear? Without removing front wheel as such? I know the Hexa wasn’t very luggage friendly - not a patch on what the Innova can do. Curious if the Safari is any better at this.

2. Would it have enough height to fit the bike standing (vertical) with the front tyre / front fork put in between the middle row seats? (either with / without front tyre removed - both work).

Originally Posted by Aditya

This could get tight. I am not sure the bay is long enough.

This shouldn't be a problem. The roof appears sufficiently high.

Originally Posted by ebonho

I transport my cycles in my Storme regularly to and from the mechanic.

Even with the middle bench flipped forward, a bike will not -

1) Stand upright (the saddle will not clear the middle doors or tailgate without tilting the bike). I ride a 54. 180 cm tall. 33.5 inch inseam.

5) My CAAD was transported from Bangalore to Pune in the back of a Storme, by a family with tons of luggage. With both the wheels off, and the bike flipped over on to the saddle and handlebar, it fits straight across the width of the SUV along the edge of the tailgate.

Managed to dig out some relevant photos from my laptop. The Point No. 1 has a caveat ... with the front wheel attached. Without it, ingress is easier, and the bikes stand upright easily, without having to drop the saddle post.

Please take a look at these photos of my bikes (hybrids and roadie) in the back of my Storme and that of a friend.

Two bikes easily fit standing upright, side by side. In fact, with proper tethering and a rajai for padding on the center bike, a third bike too can be inserted in between these two.



This is how my roadie cam in from Bangalore, upside down, and fitting easily sideways, at the back in the third row with the jump seats up, and the middle row bench down and in use by the family.







And the wheels ...



Don't know how to attach photos to a PM so if this is too OT, maybe this can be moved from here to a relevant thread by the mods.

Cheers, Doc

[zadoom]

Originally Posted by Aditya

Silver roof rails get a stepped design to bring some love from the old Safari. Their chrome inserts make the design look too busy. Tata usually has a classy approach with these things, yet they've really gone overboard with the blingy chrome. While all variants get roof rails, only those without a sunroof get functional ones that can bear a load of 130 kilos:

In one of the other initial threads on the 2021 Safari, I remember the load capacity of roof rails being mentioned as 75 kilos. Does this mean that the sunroof variants too get functional roof rails albeit with a lower load capacity of 75 kilos or are those actually completely non functional and any kind of luggage racks cannot be put up there.

[rsanthosh]

Thanks for the brilliant review, as always. As an existing Harrier owner, I was keen to know the new additions and changes brought into the new variant. A couple of friends have been eyeing on the Safari and keep asking me about the feed back on the Harrier. So I have been recommending the vehicle without any inhibition and for them its just a choice between the new avatar and the younger sibling!

[pahwa]

Great review as always!

Despite all goodness that Tata have been able to pack in the Safari - I am skeptical about its success. Innova albeit over priced - is a clear leader in the segment for its low cost maintenance, reliability and most importantly - very high resale value. Safari is dangerously close to Innova 2.4L pricing here - even if they manage to keep it just 1.5 lacs over Harrier.

I am in markert for a 7 seater for some time and while my heart is hooked to Safari, Innova Crysta still makes much sense to my mind for its reliability, low TCO, excellent service, easy to resell.

After 4 yrs and 1 lac KM I will be able to sell off a 26 lac Toyota at 15-18 lac the but going by history, a 26 lac Tata will certainly not fetch me a penny over 8-10 lac. Almost 40% difference in price in used car market between Tata & Toyota.

[neofromcapone]

I don't think the name Safari was a last minute change.
The buzz wouldn't have been there if the car was known to have this name.

As a marketing tactic, I think it is bang on.
And I am hoping to see the Sierra too.

A Toyota holds resale value due the new models annual price increase. The Fortuner launched at ~18.50 lacs about 15 years ago.
Today it is ~34 lacs
To my mind this is not the case with most other brands and their vehicles

The Etios twins or the Yaris wouldn't have the resale value of an Innova.

Anyways, hoping the Safari brings in the numbers for TaMo

[COMMUTER]

"The Car of The Year" for sure. I wish they had sightly upsized it in the interest of trunk space though.

[pseudo_coder]

Originally Posted by pahwa

After 4 yrs and 1 lac KM I will be able to sell off a 26 lac Toyota at 15-18 lac the but going by history, a 26 lac Tata will certainly not fetch me a penny over 8-10 lac. Almost 40% difference in price in used car market between Tata & Toyota.

I think the numbers are a bit off.

For 26 lakh, you will get Safari XZA+. For Innova, top end diesel AT costs 29 lakh. Since Innova doesn't have sunroof, comparable variant is Safari XZA, which will cost 24 lakh. Now that's a difference of 5 lakh! Not to forget what Safari has many features missing in Crysta.

Also, I bet that resale value of Safari XZA+ will be more than 10 lakh after 4 years. Hexa was launched 4 years ago, at 21 lakh for the top end XTA. I am unable to find any XTA in 8 to 10 lakh range. This when the Hexa was a flop. Going by Harrier's sales, Safari will certainly do better.

Still, if one plans to sell the car after just 4 years, Innova makes more sense.

But not everyone does. Many keep their cars for 10 years. For them, the initial cost and ownership experience outweighs the resale value.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by pseudo_coder

Still, if one plans to sell the car after just 4 years, Innova makes more sense.

But not everyone does. Many keep their cars for 10 years. For them, the initial cost and ownership experience outweighs the resale value.

Who will live with a boring van for a decade? No matter how much one praises an Innova, it is yawn inducing, by a wide margin.
Besides in 10 years EV will be the norm and IC vehicles will have hear zero resale values.

[Iyencar]

Good attempt to differentiate. I may be in the market for a 7 seater soon but will probably give this a miss. If I am ever to have 7 folks in the vehicle then it means I am hitting the highway for some outstation trip. Which in turn means I am going to have more than the laughable 73 litres of luggage. I know there is a rooftop bag available, but then that defeats the point of a panoramic sunroof. Even if I were to sacrifice that option, it's not easy hoisting luggage, especially a large suitcase onto the roof or off it. To me the flaws which may make me avoid this car in order of importance are:
Bootspace>FWD>turning radius>white interiors>niggles>service>>>sales. (I personally do not care that they used the Safari name. Not like I was reserving for my firstborn and they came along and stole it.) The problem for any car maker entering this space is that the Innova simply exists flaws and all. RWD, practical boot, well tuned engine and gearbox, lovely seats (unforgivable that the bench is still not an option on the ZX) and easy to drive. The safety features it comes with are good enough. Probably what I'll go with. The extra couple of lakhs isn't much in EMI terms or even resale. Right now in my books, the Safari is worthy competition to the Harrier and not the Innova.