[doxinboy]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

If you are spending close to 9L of your hard earned money, why are you not insisting on having ABS+Airbags in any car you buy ? These should be the first items on your wishlist - god forbid if you end up in any unfortunate accident, these will save your and your families life.

Completely agree. This is exactly the way I thought before opting for HL. My priority was safety of me and my family. If I am spending a million bucks on a car that I intend to keep for at least 5 years, I want to make sure it will be safe down the line. It doesn't matter if you are a sedate driver, just having these safety gears in the car may one day be a life saver.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by souravc

Strictly my opinion which is likely to be heavily flawed

With your kind of driving you would be better off with the highline petrol, I would hate to ignore the benefits of alloys, airbags and ABS - touchscreen , HU, reverse parking be damned , safety comes first and foremost. the petrol engine is a good engine and the car is no slouch even though it misses the TDi turbo burst . Though come to think of it , since you are going to mostly do city driving you would barely use 50% of the torque band for most of the time.

Very true. The Vento HL will come with all safety features which is missing in the TL. It's about time VW should have offered a Comfortline variant as well, or offered the TL with an optional ABS + Airbags pack.

Thanks for clarifying about the petrol engine's performance as well, Sourav. Yes, my driving will be mostly limited to city usage with occasional highway bursts, so the petrol will serve me better.

The problem is the ever-increasing petrol rates. It's a no brainer that by the end of next year we might be paying in 3-figures for a liter of petrol, and that is the only worrying factor here.

Originally Posted by souravc

If you are madly in love with the fab TDi engine ( which seems from your post ) , then you should get yourself the trendline - BHP-ian Mikon would be able to help you advice on the TL . He has done 19K on it .

Maintenance of TDi - Ventos have their first service ( paid) after 15,000 km or 1 year whichever is earlier and advises 1 year service interval . You may need an engine oil top-up mid year , otherwise there is nothing special required . I also made the transition from the petrol only to a TDi , pretty happy with the experience .

TDi engines would be noisy and clutch would be hard to start off with

I was blown away the moment I sat in one of my friend's Vento TDi. The pull when the rpm crossed 2K swept me off my feet! "Whoa, this car has some serious torque!" was the first thought that blazed through my mind. It handled the Keskal ghat twister roads with such consummate ease that it would put some more famed petrol cars to shame!

Needless to say, I have become a big fan of the TDi ever since.

Great to hear that the diesel doesn't demand any extra care or maintenance other than the occasional engine oil top-ups. Sounds like the TDi is a breeze to maintain as well, engine noise and a harder clutch can be handled, but the TL is too basic (except the 2-3 frills of the Breeze package).

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

If you are spending close to 9L of your hard earned money, why are you not insisting on having ABS+Airbags in any car you buy ? These should be the first items on your wishlist - god forbid if you end up in any unfortunate accident, these will save your and your families life.

VW has been a cheapo in cutting down both of these in TL variant, dont even look at it. If you really want a diesel, look at other options in this price range which give you ABS/Airbags or buy the Petrol HL.

Exactly. Thanks, ethanhunt123!

I don't like any other options (Dzire, Etios, etc. from a segment lower). My heart is pretty much set on the Vento (ruling out City now that Honda is facing problems). If only petrol rates would be cheaper, or at least stay where it is @ 70/ltr. It's still affordable right now.

Originally Posted by doxinboy

Completely agree. This is exactly the way I thought before opting for HL. My priority was safety of me and my family. If I am spending a million bucks on a car that I intend to keep for at least 5 years, I want to make sure it will be safe down the line. It doesn't matter if you are a sedate driver, just having these safety gears in the car may one day be a life saver.

Thanks doxinboy as well!

Yes, we cannot be selfish (except maybe when we are single!). My first child is expected in January 2012, and my folks are growing older, so I have to seriously consider the safety aspect as well. Seems like the petrol HL is the way to go, petrol prices be damned.

Looks like I have to put my dream of owning a TDi on the back burner, at least for the next few years.

Thanks guys, for your very valuable inputs. Much appreciated.

[Notyetgrey]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

This is way too high and it looks to me as if the dealer is trying to cheat you. The Pdi/handling/logistics charges range from 3-5k at the max. Do check out with another dealer itself in hyderabad. In delhi I don't remember correctly but these charges were around 4k for the Vento.

Well, the argument with the SP and his manager didn't go anywhere. He says that the 15K is for PDI/Handling/Logistics. He also told me that all the dealers in AP charge 15 for this. Isn't this price fixing? He also told me that several people have complained about this before, but they would not reduce a penny on this. What was interesting is that he says that VW is aware of this and they are ok with this. I don't seem to have any other course of action other than writing to VW.

Anyway, my car delivery is in a couple of days and the last few days was spent in taking care of the finances. Can't wait!

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by Notyetgrey

Well, the argument with the SP and his manager didn't go anywhere. He says that the 15K is for PDI/Handling/Logistics. He also told me that all the dealers in AP charge 15 for this. Isn't this price fixing? He also told me that several people have complained about this before, but they would not reduce a penny on this. What was interesting is that he says that VW is aware of this and they are ok with this. I don't seem to have any other course of action other than writing to VW.

Anyway, my car delivery is in a couple of days and the last few days was spent in taking care of the finances. Can't wait!

Do write in to VW although I doubt they will do something since they haven't been very active on the interactive front. But still do send a query to them. This is insanely high . The dealer will say anything so don't believe that VW knows and doesn't do anything. but since your delivery date is 2 days from now, not much you can do. Have you personally checked with other dealers in AP about this charge?

[souravc]

@ Notyetgrey

As Mohit says , do make it a point to write to the VW company ( customer.care@volkswagen.co.in) , also address it to kundenbetreuung@volkswagen.de and write with all your booking details , etc - please highlight your interaction . Keep the mail short and sweet , you should see remedial action.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Looks like I have to put my dream of owning a TDi on the back burner, at least for the next few years.

If you are not fully convinced don't compromise especially when you are within striking distance - a few months of wait may help you bridge the gap and help you realise your TDi dream as well as own a drive with safety features ( It seems like you already own a car so postponement would not be catastrophic for you ) Come to think of it, waiting for a few months is not a bad bargain as compared to waiting for a few years
Apologies, if you feel that I have overstepped the brief on advice but I could not help it - had to blurt it out , have been dwelling on this since the morning ! I maintain that the petrol is a fantastic car and is more suited to your driving requirement but it seems that you are plonking your money on the petrol HL as a compromise
Cheers and all the best

[doxinboy]

Mates! My TDI has crossed 5k mark. I'm due for an upcoming 600 km trip. When I opened the bonnet I saw the oil has dipped a few mm below the minimum level. Is it cool to take her for a spin or should I refill. I plan to do it after this weekend trip, I hope Vento gurus can help me on this issue.

[oxyzen]

Originally Posted by doxinboy

Mates! My TDI has crossed 5k mark. I'm due for an upcoming 600 km trip. When I opened the bonnet I saw the oil has dipped a few mm below the minimum level. Is it cool to take her for a spin or should I refill. I plan to do it after this weekend trip, I hope Vento gurus can help me on this issue.

It is better to top up. Anyways you need to do it after few days right? so why not now?

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by doxinboy

Mates! My TDI has crossed 5k mark. I'm due for an upcoming 600 km trip. When I opened the bonnet I saw the oil has dipped a few mm below the minimum level. Is it cool to take her for a spin or should I refill. I plan to do it after this weekend trip, I hope Vento gurus can help me on this issue.

I would suggest you to refill it for the better of your engine. After crossing 5000 mark your car needs 1.75 lt of engine oil. Vento drinks 0.5 lt every 1500 kms according to the manual. You wouldn't want a quite a hot engine during a weekend trip.

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

I am already stretching my initial budget by at least 1.5L, but I feel I can manage it.

The Highline TDi is way beyond my budget.

What I would want some advice on, is this - is it advisable to go for the Trendline Diesel or the Highline Petrol? My running will be about 500-600 kms per month.

With petrol prices twanging up virtually every 3 months (expect to rise by another 2/- in the coming week or so), it will be no time before it touches 100/ltr. Diesel, however, might not see such a steep rise in the coming times, and needless to say, the Vento TDi is pretty much a new benchmark (performance-wise) in it's segment, and offers pretty solid FE figures as well.

Both are priced almost similarly, and the TL Diesel Vento (Breeze) has reverse parking sensors extra, and a touchscreen HU + GPS. But the Diesel will be a TL, and the Petrol HL is pretty much equipped with all features bar a few, such as reverse parking sensors, touchscreen HU and steering mounted controls (among others).

If I go for the TDi, do I need to do anything different than how I would maintain a petrol car? I have zero experience in diesel engines, except for knowing one fact that they are noisy as heck.

Just my advice nothing against anyone or any car brand.
With your running diesel suits you well. With ever increasing petrol cost you would regret your decision later or after petrol crosses Rs. 100 mark and diesel stays at Rs. 50(with some increase).
I too drive Vento TDi HL and the torque is amazing. I would suggest you to go with Vento TDi TL, with ever increasing petrol cost(Rs 2 increase upcoming) and the drive factor you get from the TDi, no car can match it below 11 lac mark.
Vento comes very good brakes and they bite really quick, have experienced it. My car is shod with JK and they don't disappoint me any day be it grip, handling, wet handling. Have driven the car at 160 kmph on Palm Beach Rd. and it sticks to the road.
If someone says I want a car because of safety feature than he is not a good driver and doesn't respect the car itself. Even if I drive a TL Vento I know I wont need the ABS or the airbags because I trust my judgement and dont push the car if there is no space for it. Vento has only 2 airbags what good are those for rear passengers and new born children shouldn't be sitting in the front because of the front airbags. Regarding ABS, the Vento's brakes are too good you wouldn't be disappointed.
For me the petrol Vento is a real compromise, and yes its a real slouch, I know many petrol Vento owners are going to flame me.
First we(me + parents) were interested in a petrol car, had almost zeroed on City VMT, and even TD the petrol Vento, it was out of the question after test drive, for every overtaking you need to downshift which is not the case with Vento TDi.
SA asked why not TD a TDi and just one test drive we sold onto the TDi engine. What pull, just amazing.
Regarding the maintenance factor, it not the same as the previous diesel engines. Just one service at 15000 kms/ 1 year that's it. And only refill of engine oil which is 0.5 lt every 1500 kms.
Buy a VW Vento TDi TL and you wont regret your decision any day and would love the push back in the seat every time you push the throttle, which I think you wont get in the petrol Vento.
Hoping you change your decision to TDi TL.
Just my 2cents.

[ethanhunt123]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

If someone says I want a car because of safety feature than he is not a good driver and doesn't respect the car itself. Even if I drive a TL Vento I know I wont need the ABS or the airbags because I trust my judgement and dont push the car if there is no space for it. Vento has only 2 airbags what good are those for rear passengers and new born children shouldn't be sitting in the front because of the front airbags. Regarding ABS, the Vento's brakes are too good you wouldn't be disappointed.
For me the petrol Vento is a real compromise, and yes its a real slouch, I know many petrol Vento owners are going to flame me.
First we(me + parents) were interested in a petrol car, had almost zeroed on City VMT, and even TD the petrol Vento, it was out of the question after test drive, for every overtaking you need to downshift which is not the case with Vento TDi.
SA asked why not TD a TDi and just one test drive we sold onto the TDi engine. What pull, just amazing.
Regarding the maintenance factor, it not the same as the previous diesel engines. Just one service at 15000 kms/ 1 year that's it. And only refill of engine oil which is 0.5 lt every 1500 kms.
Buy a VW Vento TDi TL and you wont regret your decision any day and would love the push back in the seat every time you push the throttle, which I think you wont get in the petrol Vento.
Hoping you change your decision to TDi TL.
Just my 2cents.

Are you serious ? Just because someone values and wants safety features in their car, they are not good drivers ?

I am sure you are a good driver, but just check out what happened to one of our fellow BHP-ians here. The vehicle was being driven at 80kmph on a highway, and still it met with such a serious accident. Imagine when you are driving at 160 on the road you are talking about and some kid jumps in front of your car. And your car does not have ABS/Airbags ?

[Notyetgrey]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Do write in to VW although I doubt they will do something since they haven't been very active on the interactive front. But still do send a query to them. This is insanely high . The dealer will say anything so don't believe that VW knows and doesn't do anything. but since your delivery date is 2 days from now, not much you can do. Have you personally checked with other dealers in AP about this charge?

Thanks! Well, an hour after I posted, got a call from the Sales Manager. He said that the "management" decided that they are going to give me a discount on the charges (even after the discount, it's still higher than likes of Honda, Maruti). Still a moral victory! I don't know why the change of heart though. While i'd like to think it was my "well reasoned" arguments with him yesterday, I have a feeling that it might have to do with my tweet to VW India and the quote that I posted in the FB wall of VW India. Unfortunately, I've paid the entire sum owed. I might get a refund for this discount in a week or so (per the SM).

Originally Posted by souravc

As Mohit says , do make it a point to write to the VW company ( customer.care@volkswagen.co.in) , also address it to kundenbetreuung@volkswagen.de and write with all your booking details , etc - please highlight your interaction . Keep the mail short and sweet , you should see remedial action.

Thanks Souravc. Other than the very high incidental charges, I'm actually very happy with the whole buying process till now. I am thrilled to bits that I am getting my car within 2 weeks of booking (got to do with the fact that I chose the Silver color, I think). Once the sales person knew that he can't push the expensive insurance, unwanted accessories and when I called him out on his semi-truths, my interactions with them has been good. Proves the value of being prepared and well-researched. I spent a whole weekend reading/re-reading all the Vento related threads. Gained a tremendous amount of insight into the car and the insights into the buying process. Threads/replies from you, Noopster, Bala80, Keyur, GTO, Prabhuferrai and several others helped me tremendously. Thanks again. Will post my rationale for buying the Vento and my buying experience once I get my car this weekend (fingers crossed!)

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by ethanhunt123

Are you serious ? Just because someone values and wants safety features in their car, they are not good drivers ?

I am sure you are a good driver, but just check out what happened to one of our fellow BHP-ians here. The vehicle was being driven at 80kmph on a highway, and still it met with such a serious accident. Imagine when you are driving at 160 on the road you are talking about and some kid jumps in front of your car. And your car does not have ABS/Airbags ?

Well that's very bad for the fellow bhpian. Regarding your question if a kid jumps in front of my Vento at 160kmph, its better to brake if there is distance and if not you need to change the lane at most. But car doing just 80 kmph getting toppled up, is very bad. SUV like Innova have a bad center of gravity. Driving a Vento and changing a lane at 80 Kmph wouldn't result in a car toppling.
I'm in the market for changing dads Tata Indica DLS '03 with 130k on the odo. Had either choice of going with Polo TDi HL with ABS/Airbags but went with Ford Fiesta Classic TDCi Lxi which has no safety features. Driving in Mumbai city can be done without all those safety feature. But the fun you get in a drivers car like Fiesta is best.
Just my 2 cents again.

[Mustang.101]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Well that's very bad for the fellow bhpian. Regarding your question if a kid jumps in front of my Vento at 160kmph, its better to brake if there is distance and if not you need to change the lane at most. But car doing just 80 kmph getting toppled up, is very bad. SUV like Innova have a bad center of gravity. Driving a Vento and changing a lane at 80 Kmph wouldn't result in a car toppling.
I'm in the market for changing dads Tata Indica DLS '03 with 130k on the odo. Had either choice of going with Polo TDi HL with ABS/Airbags but went with Ford Fiesta Classic TDCi Lxi which has no safety features. Driving in Mumbai city can be done without all those safety feature. But the fun you get in a drivers car like Fiesta is best.
Just my 2 cents again.

You are little misguided on a few points.

1. If you are in a non abs car and you brake hard and try to change lanes by steering at the same time, the car will not switch lanes, this is because the brakes lock up and front tyres stop rolling and you just slide in the straight direction.

2. The innova is not a SUV, it is a MUV.

3. Height is not the lone reason for a car flipping over. It depends on suspension set up also. For eg. It is much more difficult to flip a bmw x5 in comparison to any of the entry level sedans in india even though the x5 has a much higher COG and is a SUV.

[souravc]

Sorry buddy disagree wholeheartedly with you on the following

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

With your running diesel suits you well.

With 600 km of running and assuming that petrol mileage is 10 km/lt while diesel mileage is 12 km/lt one would need 60 lt of petrol or 50 lt of diesel. 60 lts of petrol @ Rs100 /lt cost = Rs 6000 while 50 lts of diesel @ Rs50/lt cost Rs 2500 - which is a difference of Rs 3500 per month ( Rs 42000 per annum . Whats the diff in price between TDi HL and Petrol HL ? Further not even the most optimistic of diesel lovers can see diesel price at half that of petrol !

If someone says I want a car because of safety feature than he is not a good driver and doesn't respect the car itself. - thats a shocking statement to say the least !

Even if I drive a TL Vento I know I wont need the ABS or the airbags because I trust my judgement and dont push the car if there is no space for it. - Isn't it an oxymoron ? One would buy the TDi to push the car and then not push it because it does not have safety features

Regarding ABS, the Vento's brakes are too good you wouldn't be disappointed. - However good the brakes maybe it cannot mimmic the function of a ABS . A brake stops while ABS prevents skidding by maintaining traction with the surface

For me the petrol Vento is a real compromise, and yes its a real slouch - Absolutely disagree , the petrol Vento has typical petrol engine characteristics , low end torque of the diesel may score over it but the high rev is very much there and its as good as any car in the segment. TDi will run out of breath at 5500 rpm while the petrol can carry on for a 1000 rpm more. The point is that in a city traffic how much would you be able use it

And only refill of engine oil which is 0.5 lt every 1500 kms. - Top-up when the light glows , thats it ! If 0.5 lt every 1500 km kinda micro management was required , it would have been reason enough to strike this car off my list .

Safety cannot and should not be a trade-off at any cost , I hope VW withdraws their TL versions and launch a comfortline with ABS, alloys and airbags as standard.

[bala80]

Hold on. Just read in the skoda rapid thread that even the middle variant comes with ABS and driver airbag. Me thinks, price of this will be very close to vento petrol HL.

Its almost the same car inside out, you get the TDI in the same tune as the vento.

Win-win???

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Looks like I have to put my dream of owning a TDi on the back burner, at least for the next few years.

[RavenAvi]

Originally Posted by souravc

If you are not fully convinced don't compromise especially when you are within striking distance - a few months of wait may help you bridge the gap and help you realise your TDi dream as well as own a drive with safety features ( It seems like you already own a car so postponement would not be catastrophic for you ) Come to think of it, waiting for a few months is not a bad bargain as compared to waiting for a few years
Apologies, if you feel that I have overstepped the brief on advice but I could not help it - had to blurt it out , have been dwelling on this since the morning ! I maintain that the petrol is a fantastic car and is more suited to your driving requirement but it seems that you are plonking your money on the petrol HL as a compromise
Cheers and all the best

That is another option as well, sourav. Wait and save enough to get the HL, but like you said most of my running will be inside the city so yes, petrol makes more sense. The problem is the cost of petrol, but like you explained in another post above, even at 100/ltr petrol seems good enough for a city commuter like me.

The TDi is a hoot to drive plus diesel is so much cheaper these days, those are the only 2 reasons why I am contemplating the TDi. Of course, a TL without the basic safety features would be a huge compromise, specially for a torquey car which loves to be revved.

No apologies necessary. Your advice and your inputs in the Vento threads have been invaluable for me. I cannot thank you enough, my friend.

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Just my advice nothing against anyone or any car brand.
With your running diesel suits you well. With ever increasing petrol cost you would regret your decision later or after petrol crosses Rs. 100 mark and diesel stays at Rs. 50(with some increase).
I too drive Vento TDi HL and the torque is amazing. I would suggest you to go with Vento TDi TL, with ever increasing petrol cost(Rs 2 increase upcoming) and the drive factor you get from the TDi, no car can match it below 11 lac mark.
Vento comes very good brakes and they bite really quick, have experienced it. My car is shod with JK and they don't disappoint me any day be it grip, handling, wet handling. Have driven the car at 160 kmph on Palm Beach Rd. and it sticks to the road.
If someone says I want a car because of safety feature than he is not a good driver and doesn't respect the car itself. Even if I drive a TL Vento I know I wont need the ABS or the airbags because I trust my judgement and dont push the car if there is no space for it. Vento has only 2 airbags what good are those for rear passengers and new born children shouldn't be sitting in the front because of the front airbags. Regarding ABS, the Vento's brakes are too good you wouldn't be disappointed.
For me the petrol Vento is a real compromise, and yes its a real slouch, I know many petrol Vento owners are going to flame me.
First we(me + parents) were interested in a petrol car, had almost zeroed on City VMT, and even TD the petrol Vento, it was out of the question after test drive, for every overtaking you need to downshift which is not the case with Vento TDi.
SA asked why not TD a TDi and just one test drive we sold onto the TDi engine. What pull, just amazing.
Regarding the maintenance factor, it not the same as the previous diesel engines. Just one service at 15000 kms/ 1 year that's it. And only refill of engine oil which is 0.5 lt every 1500 kms.
Buy a VW Vento TDi TL and you wont regret your decision any day and would love the push back in the seat every time you push the throttle, which I think you wont get in the petrol Vento.
Hoping you change your decision to TDi TL.
Just my 2cents.

I haven't been in a petrol Vento yet (just had a few rides in my friend's TDi), but I am pretty sure it's more than a competent city commuter. The TDi, however, blows it out of the water and how!

Completely agree with your views on the performance of the TDi. But like GTO said in the review - the TL is simply too basic. Safety features are a must in any car these days, even in the city! You never know when some idiot comes charging through a corner/side road and makes you feel sorry. Specially these days when I see school kids (heck even college kids) vroom on their racing bikes at speeds past 70kph+ on crowded, congested roads!

If only they had a Comfortline on offer at about 50K more, and VW would have had me sold.

Originally Posted by souravc

Sorry buddy disagree wholeheartedly with you on the following


Safety cannot and should not be a trade-off at any cost , I hope VW withdraws their TL versions and launch a comfortline with ABS, alloys and airbags as standard.

Completely agree with sourav here.

Yes the TLs are very, very basic. They need to bring in a Comfortline or a TL with optional safety kit pretty soon, now that the Skoda Rapid is coming in with a pretty loaded middle variant.

Originally Posted by bala80

Hold on. Just read in the skoda rapid thread that even the middle variant comes with ABS and driver airbag. Me thinks, price of this will be very close to vento petrol HL.

Its almost the same car inside out, you get the TDI in the same tune as the vento.

Win-win???

Given the choice, I would go with the Vento over the Rapid anyday. Skoda's A.S.S. around these parts is pretty pathetic, and I have found Fabia and Laura owners slam their heads in frustration over the shoddy treatment they and their cars get.

It is a great option to have, bala, but I will stick to the Vento. Hopefully after the Rapid's launch, VW will bring in a Comfortline variant for the Vento as well in Jan-Feb 2012. I will be waiting.

Thanks again, guys!