[souravc]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

this is crazy. there is nothing such as micro management to make the car or tune the car to eat up oil.
the tolerances on the napear piston ring if perfect in design and manufacturing retains oil just perfectly.

Amit, most of us top up 4.XX litres of the oil and refill when the level is below minimum or the warning light glows - I agree that topping up 0.5 lts every 1500 km is not praqtical , I am sure even VW does not expect us to do it.
My experience with the TDi engine has been as follows :-
1. Engine oil needed a top up around 5-6K mark ( I forget the exact ) on the odo . This was with the first run of the car.
2. Post that I changed to fully synthetic Mobil1 i.e. Mobil1 from 6K and by last measure I should reach 15K safely without a top-up

Skoda and VW TDi cars are reported to 'drink' more oil in the initial run-in period - I can't comment on the truth behind this statement as its beyond my technical expertise but its been discussed on many forums

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by bala80

As far as I know, this is true for every VW, Skoda and (may be) audi cars. Even with them, this phenomenon is more observed only during the initial 15k kms with the TDI engines.

Have seen this being reported for a civic in the forum and nothing much otherwise. One possible reason is the service interval for the other cars are either 5k/10k Km's and this doesnt really matter.

If I recollect the new fiat's (Linea/Punto) have a 15k interval, would be interesting to check if there has been any reports of MJD's consuming oil?

so that means for first 15000 kms i have to keep checking oil level continuously and keep topping it up myself instead of waiting for service interval.


i own a linea too. the MJD engines are very very advanced engines and master piece of engineering. its leagues ahead of this TDI engine.
i have a habit of checking engine oil every now and then. there is no drop at all, not even 50 ml i can bet.

same for my other petrol and diesel cars as well. oil level doesnt drop.

today i had gone for the PDI but couldnt do it as at the last moment the salesman told me that the car has not arrived.

earlier he told me that car is already allocated to me. when i asked where is that car he bluffed away that the car was not proper, parts were damaged a bit and all.

[windsurfer]

I had to top up about 750ml at 8.5k KM in my Vento TDi. So, I am not sure if this 0.5L for 1500 applies to all. Can others please share their experience?

[Karthik1100]

When it comes to refinement, even a TATA Indica TDI sounds better than a VW Tdi!

Here is an interesting video about the TDI engines. Enjoy! Watch the clip at 7:32 mins. Its just superb!

Top Gear Scirocco Diesel Commercial Pt.2 - YouTube

[asitkde]

Originally Posted by bala80

As far as I know, this is true for every VW, Skoda and (may be) audi cars. Even with them, this phenomenon is more observed only during the initial 15k kms with the TDI engines.

Have seen this being reported for a civic in the forum and nothing much otherwise. One possible reason is the service interval for the other cars are either 5k/10k Km's and this doesnt really matter.

Hi bala80,
When you talk about VW, Skoda and perhaps also Audi, does that include the VW Vento petrol as well? I want to know if the Vento petrol also show some tendency of losing engine oil.

I have owned so far 11 cars in my life (all petrol though). Apart from an Opel Ascona that I owned during my stay in Germany (1988-92), none of the other cars ever showed any significant loss of engine oil level at any stage of my ownership. That Ascona I bought used, and was apparently leaking some oil (to be undestood as a fault). That car was seriously underpowered for German autobahns, but otherwise okay.

[noopster]

Originally Posted by asitkde

Hi bala80,
When you talk about VW, Skoda and perhaps also Audi, does that include the VW Vento petrol as well? I want to know if the Vento petrol also show some tendency of losing engine oil.

Nope. My petrol AT has gone 13,997 km as of this morning without requiring any oil top-ups. The Skoda TSI engine is a thirsty beast though- check Sam's ownership thread.

[evilshantanu]

Guys!
There is no point comparing the engines, both the engines fit its league and satisfy the purpose well. I am not a great fan of MJD engines when compared to the TDI engines, similarly somebody might not be a fan of TDI engines, compared to the other likes, I think that is relative.

My Vento has clocked 22,000 KM as of today, I had to go for an engine oil top up at 7000 KM (500 ml approx) and after the first service the engine oil levels didnt drop considerably, after the oil was changed at 14,667 KM (first service) no top up is done till date. I guess this is enough proof that TDI engines are not thirsty :-)

As far as the refinement of the engine is concerned, IMHO for the nth time, I dont think that the level of noise is a measure of refinement of the engine. If that would have been, then the Laura engines would have been un-refined :-) and we all know that the Laura TDI engines are proven to be performing ones. MJD or TATA TDI engine's noise levels must have been low, but that doesnt mean that one engine is more refined than the other. Before introdusing in the market, these engines go through years of R&D and refinement, so lets not de-mean the hard work of all those engineers by being so ignorant and calling these engines names :-) Please read about the VW TDI engines, their noise levels is on the higher side, worldwide as compared to other similar engines. I personally like the engine growl!

[nik_kapur]

Originally Posted by evilshantanu

Guys!
There is no point comparing the engines, both the engines fit its league and satisfy the purpose well. I am not a great fan of MJD engines when compared to the TDI engines, similarly somebody might not be a fan of TDI engines, compared to the other likes, I think that is relative.

My Vento has clocked 22,000 KM as of today, I had to go for an engine oil top up at 7000 KM (500 ml approx) and after the first service the engine oil levels didnt drop considerably, after the oil was changed at 14,667 KM (first service) no top up is done till date. I guess this is enough proof that TDI engines are not thirsty :-)

As far as the refinement of the engine is concerned, IMHO for the nth time, I dont think that the level of noise is a measure of refinement of the engine. If that would have been, then the Laura engines would have been un-refined :-) and we all know that the Laura TDI engines are proven to be performing ones. MJD or TATA TDI engine's noise levels must have been low, but that doesnt mean that one engine is more refined than the other. Before introdusing in the market, these engines go through years of R&D and refinement, so lets not de-mean the hard work of all those engineers by being so ignorant and calling these engines names :-) Please read about the VW TDI engines, their noise levels is on the higher side, worldwide as compared to other similar engines. I personally like the engine growl!

We have a Vento in the family now and i love to drive it. Love the torque and the overall power but i have to say its noisier than old Indicas and the engine noise is far from acceptable for a modern day diesel engine. The first thing people talk about when they are referring to Modern Day diesels is that they are so much like petrols when it comes to noise levels and one of the key reasons why people are ready to buy them besides the economy of it. The Diesels back in the day were noisy and often people couldnt imagine buying one, it was always meant for taxis.

[bala80]

- Bad news on the alloys. No point going for the OEM ones as replacement, can look at aftermarket options @Amit - 0% depreciation policy covers the alloys I'm told.
- Backlight assembly - 3k sounds reasonable to me. I'm sure honda city should be also around this mark, if not higher. I vaguely remember paying similar (or more) amount to get the cluster replaced in my 2002 ford ikon.
- What is the issue with the a/c vents and why would they not be covered under warranty? Unless it is a physical damage or something, I dont see a reason for it to be not covered under warranty?
- Other service charges look reasonable too. @Amit - They cannot force alignment and balancing to be carried out from their workshop. No way.

Originally Posted by souravc

• Inquired about the alloys - there does not seem to have been any price reduction ( so price remains 17K plus taxes per ) - Bala, pls note
• In case of a crack in the backlight casing , the entire assembly has to be changed which costs 3K !
• The AC vents in the front cost a bomb . The vents on the left and the right cost apprx 2.5K each and the two in the middle cost 3K each ! These are not covered under any warranty and they have been a problem in a few cars ( including mine, which I discovered yesterday )
• The quote for service without engine oil change and wheel alignment and balancing ( got it done a couple of days back ) is 3.5 K
• Engine oil change would have added around 5K to the bill
• Wheel alignment and balancing adds around 1K

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by souravc

For Vento present owners got to report a few things which maybe helpful ( or most part shocking) :-

• Inquired about the alloys - there does not seem to have been any price reduction ( so price remains 17K plus taxes per )
• The AC vents in the front cost a bomb . The vents on the left and the right cost apprx 2.5K each and the two in the middle cost 3K each ! In case of a crack in the backlight casing , the entire assembly has to be changed which costs 3K !
• These are not covered under any warranty and they have been a problem in a few cars ( including mine, which I discovered yesterday )
• The quote for service without engine oil change and wheel alignment and balancing ( got it done a couple of days back ) is 3.5 K

Sourav, so your total bill at Nerul workshop is just Rs. 3500. Can you put up a scanned copy of your first paid service bill.
I was thinking it would be good that the cost of alloy has reduced but it isn't that's bad. What problem did you discover in your ac vent, curious to know??
How was the total experience? How much time did they take for the servicing? Did you stay back and got the servicing done in front of you? Does the workshop return the old parts that they change, so as to ascertain that they are not fooling around?

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

ok coming back to very important points you jolted down:

1. Costly alloy wheels : whats the warranty clause for it, do i shelve out 17k if there is a crack or some defect that arises?

2. AC vents cost: this is the costliest i have ever heard on indian cars. what was the defect? and if it was problem in many cars why isnt it covered in warranty. please let me know so that i will check 10 times during pdi.

3. 3.5k for servicing without oil change and alignment?
what do they do in this? just clean the airfilter and wash the car? since there are no free services can i get servicing done from outside? whats the warranty clause here again?

4. do they cribble for warranty if i get the wheel balancing done from outside?

5. which brand engine oil do they use and what specs? i hope its fully synthetic oil when they are charging 5k

Here are my thoughts.
1. 0% depreciation policy covers the alloys, as said by Bala. What about comprehensive policy?
2. I am also curious to know what defect has arisen.
3. A scanned copy of bill will give us a clear insight about the cost of parts and labor.
4. No I don't think so.
5. Engine oil is Castrol Magnatec Professional B4 5W-40, which is semi-synthetic costing Rs. 998/lt.

[amit_mechengg]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

Here are my thoughts.
1. 0% depreciation policy covers the alloys, as said by Bala. What about comprehensive policy?
2. I am also curious to know what defect has arisen.
3. A scanned copy of bill will give us a clear insight about the cost of parts and labor.
4. No I don't think so.
5. Engine oil is Castrol Magnatec Professional B4 5W-40, which is semi-synthetic costing Rs. 998/lt.

0% dep policy is if it cracks in accident i.e insurance covered. if its defective, say a blow hole or fatigue failure then what?

one can then buy a MOBIL1 fully synthetic oil in similar price? do they allow it?

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

0% dep policy is if it cracks in accident i.e insurance covered. if its defective, say a blow hole or fatigue failure then what?

one can then buy a MOBIL1 fully synthetic oil in similar price? do they allow it?

If the alloy cracks because of some accident and you have 0% depreciation policy than it is covered by the insurance company. If there's a manufacturing fault, than no idea as none of the bhpians ever experienced it.
One can go with Mobil 1 but it would be costly compared to Castrol. I dont think VW would have a problem with change of oil to fully synthetic as it meets the VW 505.00 specification. As long it is there, there shouldn't be any warranty void issues.

[souravc]

Responses are given alongside , overall the service costs do not seem too high but a few of the component costs are over the top

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

1. Costly alloy wheels : whats the warranty clause for it, do i shelve out 17k if there is a crack or some defect that arises?
These refer to folks who are buying TL and wanted to upgrade to 15 inch alloys . Warranty covers alloys

2. AC vents cost: this is the costliest i have ever heard on indian cars. what was the defect? and if it was problem in many cars why isnt it covered in warranty. please let me know so that i will check 10 times during pdi.
Please do check but I doubt whether it would be helpful - for mine , the vertical stalks inside the vent ( which moves with the help of the direction changer) broke after 7 - 8 months and I can swear that there was no abuse

3. 3.5k for servicing without oil change and alignment?
what do they do in this? just clean the airfilter and wash the car? since there are no free services can i get servicing done from outside? whats the warranty clause here again?
Oil and Air filter change, AC filter change, wash, perfumed wiper cleaner , etc. First service is equivalent to the third service that we normally have in other cars . You can do it from outside but you should get it done from guys who can update the ECU else warranty issues will be there . Since Skodas have been around for a while, any workshop who can service Skodas can service VWs too .
I changed tyres the last weekend where alignment and balancing was done .
4. do they cribble for warranty if i get the wheel balancing done from outside?
No

5. which brand engine oil do they use and what specs? i hope its fully synthetic oil when they are charging 5k - VW recommends Castrol Magnatec Professional 5W - 40 which is semi synthetic and I believe the workshop overcharges . I use Mobil1, 0W-40 which is fully synthetic and meets or exceeds norms

Originally Posted by bala80

- Bad news on the alloys. No point going for the OEM ones as replacement, can look at aftermarket options @Amit - 0% depreciation policy covers the alloys I'm told. Bala, can you check at your workshop , these SAs are fairly clueless for all that you know . Between miharbe and myself we had to teach them that auto lock facility exists in Vento
- Backlight assembly - 3k sounds reasonable to me. I'm sure honda city should be also around this mark, if not higher. I vaguely remember paying similar (or more) amount to get the cluster replaced in my 2002 ford ikon.
And I was dreaming of just changing the outer case

- What is the issue with the a/c vents and why would they not be covered under warranty? Unless it is a physical damage or something, I dont see a reason for it to be not covered under warranty?

The inside stalk is broken , its a physical damage - I think the material is brittle and substandard or maybe just my plain bad luck . The vent that I use the least got broken , the SA was helpful enough to assure that he would try to repair it and not change it as he agrees that its outrageously costly
- Other service charges look reasonable too. I agree but 1000 for wheel alignment and balancing is on the higher side , don't you think so?

@ Rohaan - Mobil1 Vs Castrol Magnatec - When I buy Mobil 1 0W/40 it costs me apprx Rs 1100/lt while Castrol is Rs 950-975 / lt ( VW workshop quotes the same) The workshop refused to change the oil even if I bought them the Mobil 1 so in the worst case scenario it may void the warranty. There is one more factor - I think the ECU needs to be updated with the oil change details during first service. If its the case, then my details on ECU would show that oil has not been changed . I am not too sure on this , will know when I get my car tomorrow ( I gave it late so getting it tomorrow )

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by souravc

@ Rohaan - Mobil1 Vs Castrol Magnatec - When I buy Mobil 1 0W/40 it costs me approx Rs 1100/lt while Castrol is Rs 950-975 / lt ( VW workshop quotes the same) The workshop refused to change the oil even if I bought them the Mobil 1 so in the worst case scenario it may void the warranty. There is one more factor - I think the ECU needs to be updated with the oil change details during first service. If its the case, then my details on ECU would show that oil has not been changed . I am not too sure on this , will know when I get my car tomorrow ( I gave it late so getting it tomorrow )

Thanks for the information Sourav. If Mobil 1 is costing Rs. 1100 which is just Rs. 150 more than Castrol, than I'm definitely shifting to Mobil 1 for sure. My first service is due for April 2012. If the service guys give the so called excuse that they cannot change the engine oil to Mobil 1(which I will be providing) than will take them to task. How can they refuse when the engine oil meets or exceeds their requirement.
Another thing, when there is a change of oil, the workshop guys even change a nut in the oil sump, which is used to drain the oil and costs Rs. 78. Did you get it changed?

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by noopster

Nope. My petrol AT has gone 13,997 km as of this morning without requiring any oil top-ups. The Skoda TSI engine is a thirsty beast though- check Sam's ownership thread.

Thats right. I guess the said issue is only with VW turbocharged engines.