[wilful]

Originally Posted by thoma

Going by the recent threads, I really don't think the Japanese (may be not Toyota) any longer have bullet-proof reliability; and also that European cars (with 'solid' construction) are 'non-reliable'.

It is almost a level ground when it comes to reliability these days I feel. But the haughtiness / attitude of the European car dealers / manufacturers against service and warranty and towards the Indian consumer are what makes the scale tip in favor of the Japanese.

Given that all these service stations are manned by 'us Indians', I always wonder why it is that the attitudes of the Euro companies are by and large different to the customer. Is it because these companies encourage the notion that 'the fault is never at our end because our products can't go wrong'?

[thoma]

Originally Posted by wilful

Is it because these companies encourage the notion that 'the fault is never at our end because our products can't go wrong'?

Maybe mostly because the people who man the service station and even the manufacturing / managing facility blindly assume so.

And in depth, I guess this has more to do with customer friendliness between the East and the West; to treat the customer as king and not their product as king.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by thoma

Maybe mostly because the people who man the service station and even the manufacturing / managing facility blindly assume so.

And in depth, I guess this has more to do with customer friendliness between the East and the West; to treat the customer as king and not their product as king.

my OPINION

maruti suzuki could be thinking like this :
- customer service is part of the product itself, the car is considered a symbol of social status in india, so satisfying the ego of the customer is as important as the product itself
- indian customer is the meat of our focus, because india is our main market, hence we have to keenly consider indian roads and also non-adherence to strict service intervals (a cultural phenomenon) , so lets keep it simple but abuse-friendly

the german brands could be thinking like this :
- product is very good, we are the ones who brought the 'cutting edge' to a 3rd world market like india (and forced other brands to follow) , the indians owe their car luxury and car performance to us - so we can rightfully claim a higher price and dont need to bend over backwards to customer demands
- indian conditions are non-ideal, we should not be blamed like this, we design for global standards ; we too would like to be giving you a trouble free product, but can't help the 3rd world 'environment'

Probably the above is what makes a maruti employee lose his job, whereas a VW employee escape with a mild warning ; in case of poor feedback scores.

[Aroy]

The rate of 90K for injectors is a con. It is around 40K, so they have effectively given you a 50% discount, instead of replacing it free.

I had a long chat with a MUL service manager, who had worked with a European manufacturer. His opinion was that the Fiat Engine's injectors last the longest - around 60K and are the least expensive. VW are the most expensive and require a change at 40K km. At that time I thought he was trying to just defame the European cars, but now I am seeing the reality.

[el lobo 6061]

Originally Posted by Aroy

The rate of 90K for injectors is a con. It is around 40K, so they have effectively given you a 50% discount, instead of replacing it free.

How did you arrive at this cost of Rs 40,000?

Going by July 2014 price of injectors Rs ~21200, so replacing 4 injectors would come about Rs ~84800 and adding additional labor would take it to Rs 90,000.

Source:

Originally Posted by Aroy

I had a long chat with a MUL service manager, who had worked with a European manufacturer. His opinion was that the Fiat Engine's injectors last the longest - around 60K and are the least expensive. VW are the most expensive and require a change at 40K km. At that time I thought he was trying to just defame the European cars, but now I am seeing the reality.

There are members on Team-BHP whose Vento have done more than 40,000 kms with no need of injector replacement. 40,000 Kms is a hogwash by MUL service manager.

I have seen a trend wherein people giving advice about Germans in specific VAG with no experience whatsoever which in turn leads to bad name for the company.

[srishiva]

I own a Vento and not sure if the SA (Palace Cross) was wrong, he had mentioned 40K as the cost of injectors.

[vivekkr_99]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

I have seen a trend wherein people giving advice about Germans in specific VAG with no experience whatsoever which in turn leads to bad name for the company.

If the European cars are really bullet proof, then we will not be even discussing these sort of things. There are dissatisfied customers - may be mainly due to arrogant attitude and lack of support from service centers - so instead of blaming others and the "trend"- why not ask the manufacturers and the dealerships to correct their attitude and not treat Indian customers badly?

-Vivek

[Gokrish]

Originally Posted by vivekkr_99

If the European cars are really bullet proof, then we will not be even discussing these sort of things. There are dissatisfied customers - may be mainly due to arrogant attitude and lack of support from service centers - so instead of blaming others and the "trend"- why not ask the manufacturers and the dealerships to correct their attitude and not treat Indian customers badly?

-Vivek

ASS centres have a periodical service checklist issued by VAG and we may check the same for replacement of various parts!

[Padcot Prakash]

Originally Posted by Gokrish

ASS centres have a periodical service checklist issued by VAG and we may check the same for replacement of various parts!

all these years i have been a maruti loyalist on majority of cars we have owned. I was happy to include a german (vw vento ) partly because of the quality of the product and the with respect to service.

however, i came in to a rude shock as early as at time period of booking - delivery of the vehicle. Careless and ruthless way of dealing with customers by the VW dealers i must say. they carry a snobbish and care-a-damn attitude. Not offering proper service to the customer seems to be their birth right.

i know if and when my car is going to face issues , i might have to face bigger issues with the dealer than the car itself.


In a country like ours where on one hand the consumer and automotive laws are not very effective and on the other the dealership mentality is also very absurd. no car manufacturer can fully satisfy a customer on all counts - be it maruti , hyundai , honda or even BMW for that matter.

We need some reforms and sweeping changes in the consumer law and also some developments ( like market scenarios and economical impacts ) to the auto industry to make customer 'along-with' after sales service more important.

It will only then we would have really purchased a car and along with it will come the real promise of after sales service in its true sense.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by el lobo 6061

How did you arrive at this cost of Rs 40,000?

Going by July 2014 price of injectors Rs ~21200, so replacing 4 injectors would come about Rs ~84800 and adding additional labor would take it to Rs 90,000.

Source:


There are members on Team-BHP whose Vento have done more than 40,000 kms with no need of injector replacement. 40,000 Kms is a hogwash by MUL service manager.

I have seen a trend wherein people giving advice about Germans in specific VAG with no experience whatsoever which in turn leads to bad name for the company.

1. The figure of 40k for a set of injectors was from WV service centre, 2 years ago.
2. As I had mentioned, the Service Manager had shifted from VW to MUL, so he should know.

Regarding the service/change interval of injectors. It is the recommended change interval, and is the average life. Depending on your driving style, driving conditions and fuel quality, an injector may wear out (yes the injector hole can enlarge due to corrosion) in 20K km or may last well over 1L km. This is the reason some manufacturers have started using ceramic tips for the fuel injectors. These last "lifetime". I have noticed that the European car manufacturers schedule replacement on a conservative side, similar to aircraft manufacturers. A part is to be replaced if it can fail, that is it.

[StarScream]

My misfuelling experience with a Vento TSI:
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3559527

[thoma]

How does the non-ABS TDi fare on hard braking under speeds? I was doing some 20kmph south of the maximum a Vento can do and didn't feel anywhere confident. The car seems to fly and felt that the slightest correction on the wheels could land me on the paddy fields beside. And more importantly, it took a considerable distance to stop; unlike the stopping from 100-0 where we can experience good bite. I braked well in advance spotting a slow moving bike, however the bite was not great from the high speed initially (though I didn't want to lock the wheel, I wanted to check where I could stop; yet the car kept moving considerably well) and I almost slowed, alas past the biker.

[shan_ned]

Originally Posted by venkyhere

my OPINION

maruti suzuki could be thinking like this :
- customer service is part of the product itself, the car is considered a symbol of social status in india, so satisfying the ego of the customer is as important as the product itself
- indian customer is the meat of our focus, because india is our main market, hence we have to keenly consider indian roads and also non-adherence to strict service intervals (a cultural phenomenon) , so lets keep it simple but abuse-friendly

the german brands could be thinking like this :
- product is very good, we are the ones who brought the 'cutting edge' to a 3rd world market like india (and forced other brands to follow) , the indians owe their car luxury and car performance to us - so we can rightfully claim a higher price and dont need to bend over backwards to customer demands
- indian conditions are non-ideal, we should not be blamed like this, we design for global standards ; we too would like to be giving you a trouble free product, but can't help the 3rd world 'environment'

Probably the above is what makes a maruti employee lose his job, whereas a VW employee escape with a mild warning ; in case of poor feedback scores.

My 7 year old Maruti Swift had no issues till now. It has bullet-proof reliability. I have a complete peace of mind with the car. I am wondering how German car makers are proud of their products. I do agree they have the latest technologies going into their products, but at the end of day, a car owner will prefer to have a peace of mind.

For the past couple of years, I have been reading lots of complaints on the reliability part and the after sales support from VW. I am sorry to say they have lost a customer in me. I only wish VW takes enough effort to bring back the confidence. Is VW at least acknowledging the problem on the ground?

[StarScream]

Originally Posted by shan_ned

For the past couple of years, I have been reading lots of complaints on the reliability part and the after sales support from VW. I am sorry to say they have lost a customer in me. I only wish VW takes enough effort to bring back the confidence. Is VW at least acknowledging the problem on the ground?

They seem to be trying. After every service visit one gets multiple calls from the dealer asking for an "extremely satisfied" rating because "very satisfied" is not good enough. A bit like Hyundai!

[coolboy007]

Fellow Vento owners, i need your advice on this doubt i have.
Its winter time here in North India and my Vento has started making the odd "kad kad" metallic tractor type noise on cold starts like last year, after 3-4 kms it vanishes and its only there on cold starts.

Now i know there is an ecu update for this issue and my friend got the same done on his Rapid recently but my dilemma is that i used to drive his car before and after driving post ecu update, it feels as it the power has been reduced, the already linear power delivery has been made more linear and i dont like this characteristic. His Rapid is smoother, engine revvs more freely but there is very mild surge post 2000 rpm.

I enjoy the kick/shove after 1900 rpm and would be disappointed if that is subdued after the ecu update? If any one got it done recently, can you tell me if the hassle is worth it? I had requested for an update in July during second service but their servers were down, going for an update would be wasting a full day knowing how VW ASC's are.

Should i bear the tractor noise or get the update done? That noise in the morning makes me paranoid that injectors are being harmed after seeing so many injector failures.