[FrodoOfTheShire]

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

But this type of news is somehow constantly coming up. Some of them here, here and here.

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

They sound eerily similar as well! Maybe some crawlers at work?

My thoughts exactly! The links I had shared above are all related to Nexon turning turtle. Even though thankfully the occupants were all safe, I wonder if the Nexon turns turtle easier than other cars due to its overall round-ish design and awkwardly high rear which looks to me as if the Nexon is on its haunches. Not taking away anything from Nexon's 5 star GNCAP rating, but GNCAP doesn't include rollover test in its criteria.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

You want to test if a car is safe - run it through a standardized set of tests that you then apply to every other car. That's why we have NCAP.

+1. Tiago hasn't been tested by any such agency, hence there's no scientific conclusion.

Originally Posted by honeybee

If a car met with an accident in real life and the occupants came out unscathed, it's sheer luck and if a car was tested with NCAP and came out of the tests with good ratings, then it's safe - is this what you are saying?

This is where I too am confused. NCAP tests are usually conducted within set parameters that are determined by those agencies through research into past accident patterns. These parameters are also updated regularly to be more stringent and to cover more often occuring scenarios, which is why full frontal tests were replaced with frontal offset tests which better reflects real-life scenarios.

But even with all these research, the NCAP agencies usually try to replicate scenarios which happen majority of the time, kind of like testing an average out of all past crash data. Also these tests are conducted at a certain speed, 64kph IIRC. But as an individual driver, a person can get into a crash that doesn't fall into any of the NCAP parameters, and if he/she escapes unscathed, then the car has done its job, regardless of what rating it had got from NCAP.

I remember reading in one of the threads here, where an owner of the MS Baleno escaped relatively unhurt from a major accident. The Baleno was declared total loss, but the owner chose to buy another Baleno as it had won his trust. And most BHPians usually don't have a high opinion regarding the Baleno.

Originally Posted by chncar

Yes, and Tata has consistently done better than any other Indian manufacturer on NCAP and certainly better than some international brands like Suzuki in India, so one can't begrudge them some positive publicity driven by incidents like this.

True. But those tests were done on other models. Tiago is yet to be tested. So currently its just based on extrapolation that we can say that the Tiago should be an equally safe car. But there's no scientific tests yet to certify that assumption.

[rajesh.palaria]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

I hate to be that guy but it is extremely annoying when people use one accident as proof of a car's safety credentials. You want to test if a car is safe - run it through a standardized set of tests that you then apply to every other car. That's why we have NCAP.

While it's a happy ending that this particular customer survived the accident with no injuries, that's just his good luck and nothing more.

Agree with whatever you have written above, for any family if they make out safe of a ghastly accident they would behave exactly this way.
I cannot comprehend in any way how it could hurt thanking a car manufacturer having lived another day and they attribute this to their car.

Had it been a NCAP (5 star) rated car and yet there would have been loss of lives we would be ridiculing the manufacturer with double fervor.

Should we not give due where it can be given. The owner gave.

The article caught attention and particularly when Tata as a manufacturer have been in the past a matter of criticism everywhere.

Yes thankfully they made out safely.

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

I hate to be that guy but it is extremely annoying when people use one accident as proof of a car's safety credentials. You want to test if a car is safe - run it through a standardized set of tests that you then apply to every other car. That's why we have NCAP.

While it's a happy ending that this particular customer survived the accident with no injuries, that's just his good luck and nothing more.

Absolutely agree with you. If you look at the car, the roof has caved in and the car is a write off. The occupants have miraculously survived, most probably because they were all belted up. I just can't understand which attribute of the car's design contributed to the saved lives here, apart from the seat belt and oh, great luck.

Another dangerous trend I notice across forums, is that, irrespective of what kind of accident it is and how it was caused, people jump into judging the "build quality" based on how much bent sheet metal is visible. And then starts brand based fanboy-ism and chest thumping. Nobody thinks or discusses about what caused the accident in the first place or how it could've been prevented.

While general public awareness on safety is welcome, half knowledge and the false sense of belief that a good crash rated car makes one invincible is alarming to say the least.

I guess it's time NCAP released test speeds prominently along with the crash rating of a car. A 5* rated car tested at 60kmph will still be a lump of mangled metal if there's an incident at 120 kmph.

[giri1.8]

Originally Posted by Geo_Ipe

The article looks more like a marketing write up!! What's the Tiago's engine specifications and ARAI mileage rating doing in it?

Owners crying about Tata's poor QC are in thousands(including me), yet you never see article about it online, heck some people have become Tata fanboys just to get internet validations, much like annoying kids on Youtube who comment, GTR is the best car in the world in every single car video

No doubt Tata has some good cars, but the hype for their products online is just way beyond what we actually get from the product.

There are hundreds of people crashing everyday and walking away safely, do we see any of that? Where are these Journals when something like an Ecosport crashes and occupants survive? Every single German car is probably one of the safest in its segment, yet we never see any Vento/Rapid related articles, what about cars that come with tech like ESC that helps to avoid such crashes in the first place?

[Bigzero]

https://mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com/...w/68973001.cms

In a sad incident, 2 race horses died and a couple of them injured when a truck carrying them capsized after being nudged by a Maharashtra State RDC Volvo which in turn was trying to change lanes quickly from the fast lane to the Centre lane to avoid a car which was slowing down to take a U Turn (!?).

This is what was reported in the newspaper that we got in the morning. Apparently the truck with the horses was on the centre lane at around 50-60 kph, and probably tried to avoid the bus moving to its lane and went out of control... It looks like the Volvo was traveling quite fast on the centre lane.

I have still not understood the part about the car taking a U turn - perhaps, a U turn to the other side through a cut in the median?

[honeybee]

Originally Posted by Bigzero

...

This is what was reported in the newspaper that we got in the morning. Apparently the truck with the horses was on the centre lane at around 50-60 kph, and probably tried to avoid the bus moving to its lane and went out of control... It looks like the Volvo was traveling quite fast on the centre lane.

I have still not understood the part about the car taking a U turn - perhaps, a U turn to the other side through a cut in the median?

The report mentions the bus hit the float from behind and the float swerved out of control due to the hit. I would hazard a guess that the car and the bus were in the rightmost lane and the float in the middle.

On noticing the car slowing down to take a U turn, the bus swerved into the middle lane, but could not brake in time and hit the float from the rear.

[shubhodeepdas@g]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

On encountering any rental car, the instinctive reaction tends to be to stay clear and as far away as possible from these self drive vehicles.

Completely agree to this point. It is better to be safe that get into a sticky situation with a novice driver behind, or immediately ahead of you in an unknown car.

The tyres of this particular car seem to be almost bald, at least from the photograph. The uneven wear pattern on the rear left wheel also could be a sign of misaligned wheels.

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by honeybee

I am curious about your point of view: If a car met with an accident in real life and the occupants came out unscathed, it's sheer luck and if a car was tested with NCAP and came out of the tests with good ratings, then it's safe - is this what you are saying?

All I'm saying is that single instances of real world accidents cannot be used to infer the safety or lack of safety of a vehicle. If you search hard enough, you could find very similar survival stories for any vehicle you like from a Maruti 800 to a Merc S-Class.

NCAP tests are great because they run exactly the same test on every car. So at least, you can say something about the relative performance of different cars based on those tests.

I have nothing for or against the Tiago. I have no opinion on its safety till it undergoes an NCAP test. I am against making a claim that a car is safe or isn't without data to back that up. Generally, the loudest voices win those arguments, not the correct ones. I think it's our responsibility as a community to point out unscientific claims that might mislead readers who are less familiar with these topics.

[Ajitsingh208]

Came across this video of the accident in Delhi, The Honda City was being driven way above the safe speed limits it seems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUBsplHMBMA

[motobliss]

Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208

Came across this video of the accident in Delhi, The Honda City was being driven way above the safe speed limits it seems.

Any info about casualties? Looking at the impact, it may be a fatal crash.

[locusjag]

Originally Posted by motobliss

Any info about casualties? Looking at the impact, it may be a fatal crash.

The text in Hindi provided by the news channel says that a young person of 18 years died in the car. But as you said, the video shows why it'd surely be a fatal crash; the skidding car's front wheels touched the kerb and tipped over just before hitting the pole and it got folded in neatly starting at its roof. I reckon that's where the front seat ends and the legroom of the 2nd row starts. It's horrific to imagine what would have happened to the car's young occupant at that moment.

That's no way for anyone's life to leave this material world, without getting into graphic details of what happens to the human body in such situations. Let's also spare a thought to the first responders. It's true that they're trained to see certain things but you'd be surprised at how rampant substance abuse and addictions are amongst such professionals.

[Arwin07]

Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208

Came across this video of the accident in Delhi, The Honda City was being driven way above the safe speed limits it seems.

RIP.
Factors that would have helped to prevent the accident in first place or atleast avoided the fatality in this accident.

1. Common sense of not driving at 100+kmph inside city.

2. Electronic stability control/program (ESC/ESP).

3. Strong side door reinforcement beams and including side impact tests in Global NCAP like what Euro NCAP does recently. As an extension of this point, people should not bug the manufacturers for high mileage which is then derived from losing weights not from better material engineering but from removal of parts like reinforcement beams.

4. With strong side reinforcement beams, side+curtain airbags would have decreased the probability of fatality.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Arwin07

1. Common sense of not driving at 100+kmph inside city.

I would argue that it is more about being in the correct gear to manage weight shift.

Originally Posted by Arwin07

2. Electronic stability control/program (ESC/ESP).

this is long overdue. I think it was mandated in Europe in the early 2000s itself but we have to make do with just dual airbags abs and ebd for now

Originally Posted by Arwin07

3. Strong side door reinforcement beams and including side impact tests in Global NCAP like what Euro NCAP does recently. As an extension of this point, people should not bug the manufacturers for high mileage which is then derived from losing weights not from better material engineering but from removal of parts like reinforcement beams.

In this instance I doubt a side impact test would have been very helpful. As mentioned, the car hit the kerb and tilted whacking the pole with its roof first. Global NCAP tests are still far behind. What we need to adopt are the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration of USA's norms when it comes to testing how safe cars are. Their small frontal overlap and roof strength tests are some of the most difficult and revealing you'd be surprised how many previous generation cars from even big German marques have failed at these tests while being engineered to pass all the other ones; Frontal impact, medium offset and side impact (NCAP standards).

[self_driven]

Originally Posted by motobliss

Any info about casualties? Looking at the impact, it may be a fatal crash.

There's a video on Youtube which can not be posted here as it shows very graphic footage of recovery. Sad part is that the mob overturned the rolled over vehicle very crudely that could have caused further harm to the occupants still stuck inside.

As per the uploader, 1 occupant died while 2 others were taken to the hospital. One of them was almost flung out through the rear windscreen probably because of not being belted up.

[venkyhere]

Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208

Came across this video of the accident in Delhi, The Honda City was being driven way above the safe speed limits it seems.

Looks like the first point of impact was the RH roof railing, near the A pillar joint. Had the car not hit the kerb, may be the point of impact would have shifted to the B pillar joint, which would have 'probably' resulted in less folding of the car. Even in that case, the speed of impact is too high for any survival chance. Hitting tree/pole at this kind of speed is a no-contest, the pole would always win.