[arun_josie]

Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208

Came across this video of the accident in Delhi, The Honda City was being driven way above the safe speed limits it seems.

Here is a pic of the car. Looks scary

[reignofchaos]

Looks like the car has zero side impact safety. Agreed that the speeds being done were ridiculous but this car will not survive a pendulum test.

[foby.sebastian]

The truck and driver is Lucky enough.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

Looks like the car has zero side impact safety. Agreed that the speeds being done were ridiculous but this car will not survive a pendulum test.

Well, the first point of impact is where the A pillar meets the roof. Hence, I am unsure if there is a crash test that covers this area.

[phamilyman]

Originally Posted by Ajitsingh208

Came across this video of the accident in Delhi, The Honda City was being driven way above the safe speed limits it seems.

I'm sorry - it just shows the car going sideways. Without video analysis you cannot say that it "was being driven way above the safe speed limits". The entire forward momentum got converted into a sideways impact so the result is obvious.

Do we even know if he swerved that hard to save someone?

Are we judging someone without full context just because they died in a spectacular accident?

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Well, the first point of impact is where the A pillar meets the roof. Hence, I am unsure if there is a crash test that covers this area.

The roof has to be built with the strongest possible steel to avoid ingress into the passenger compartment. No matter what the case, this points to bad build quality.

No car's passenger compartment should cave in like that in the event of a crash.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

The roof has to be built with the strongest possible steel to avoid ingress into the passenger compartment. No matter what the case, this points to bad build quality.

No car's passenger compartment should cave in like that in the event of a crash.

That is a general statement, which is true. However, the conclusion of the car having bad build quality cant be drawn from such incidents. Its rather absurd. If you watch the raw video clearly, just a second before impact the car hits the kerb and lifts up, which tilts the A Pillar roof joint towards the pole. Here is the actual screengrab before the impact:



You can see that its the pole V/S the A pillar of the car. Its obvious that the A pillar or Roof wont hold a chance against a thick pole which would be having a good root under the ground. Had the car rammed into the pole when it was flat on the ground, the impact energy would have dissipated all over the side of the car with the help of the doors, pillars, floor as well as the roof. Instead, here it is a single A pillar and the roof, which is again nothing but a sheet of metal with some reinforcement. Still call this an issue with poor build?

Tata Tiago, with impact on A Pillar after going under a truck -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HcXg6bVtSo

Bent A Pillar after rollover - https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/stree...ng-defect.html (Tata Tigor Accident - Axle breaks on the highway. Driver error or manufacturing defect?) - A Pillar is not cut due to roll over.

Same case applies to any car from a Maruti to a premium brand. If there is a localized impact on the pillars then such scenes are common. It will give away and drag whatever is around it. Here is another informative read on how the strength of body components are in the Audi A3 https://www.carbodydesign.com/galler...sign-story/38/ The outer skin including the roof is made of soft steel. While the pillars are made of higher strength steel, its most relevant when the impact is from the side, like a whiplash or a proper side impact against a truck etc. However, in India, we have the most unusual crashes compared to where these cars are designed. Say, a crash similar of the nature of the Honda city would have rarely occurred in Europe. Similarly, going under a truck is uncommon since all the trucks in such developed countries have proper under run bars. It is only in our country that there is havoc everywhere.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

...No matter what the case, this points to bad build quality...

What is the bench mark for a good quality car roof build quality then?

PS - I guess only a FIA spec roll cage would have stood a chance against this light pole!

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by audioholic

That is a general statement, which is true. However, the conclusion of the car having bad build quality cant be drawn from such incidents. Its rather absurd. If you watch the raw video clearly, just a second before impact the car hits the kerb and lifts up, which tilts the A Pillar roof joint towards the pole. Here is the actual screengrab before the impact:

This is a standardized test in Euro NCAP and I haven't seen any car deform like that before.

https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-...ion/side-pole/

This is how cars with good build will respond to a side pole test

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABEznFFbmJw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usca6hXymqY&t=64s

Granted the speeds in the accident are higher but the basic fact remains that build quality of the City is absolutely atrocious and we are shortchanged on safety .

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

This is a standardized test in Euro NCAP and I haven't seen any car deform like that before.

Granted the speeds in the accident are higher but the basic fact remains that build quality of the City is absolutely atrocious and we are shortchanged on safety .

That is exactly the difference. In the Euro NCAP test, the car does not lift off and hit the side barrier at an angle. The first point of impact is the driver side door which dissipates energy all around the B and A pillars. I explained the same thing in the earlier post. If you design and test a car for a set of ideal scenarios, then thats how it is expected to perform. Thats how crashes happen in that region. The same does not apply in India. If the Honda city did not lift off after hitting the kerb, the damage would not have been this severe. As Svsantosh rightly told, you need a proper roll cage for our conditions. Euro NCAP does not test for a car hitting a light pole at its A Pillar at a 30 degree side tilt. If it does, then we can compare which car is safer and which is not.

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

This is how cars with good build will respond to a side pole test...

How does this video compare to a car hitting roof first onto a tree/pole?

..basic fact remains that build quality of the City is absolutely atrocious..

Again, how so? What is not so atrocious?

[reignofchaos]

Originally Posted by audioholic

That is exactly the difference. In the Euro NCAP test, the car does not lift off and hit the side barrier at an angle. I explained the same thing in the earlier post. If you design and test a car for a set of ideal scenarios, then thats how it is expected to perform. Thats how crashes happen in that region. The same does not apply in India. If the Honda city did not lift off after hitting the kerb, the damage would not have been this severe. As Svsantosh rightly told, you need a proper roll cage for our conditions. Euro NCAP does not test for a car hitting a light pole at its A Pillar at a 30 degree side tilt. If it does, then we can compare which car is safer and which is not.

It does lift but not as much. According to their own documentation:

In Euro NCAP’s test, a car is propelled sideways at 32km/h against a rigid, narrow pole. The car is placed at right angles to the direction of motion, or as is done from 2015 onwards, at a small angle away from the perpendicular. A single average male side impact dummy is placed in the driver’s seat.

Still I have my doubts about the build quality - lets leave it at that. This thread is littered with crashed honda citys where there is substantially more deformation of the body shell than warranted - especially in rear end crashes where the car behind should incur the bulk of damage.

[Yusha]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

It does lift but not as much. According to their own documentation:



Still I have my doubts about the build quality - lets leave it at that. This thread is littered with crashed honda citys where there is substantially more deformation of the body shell than warranted - especially in rear end crashes where the car behind should incur the bulk of damage.

I am with audioholic on this one. If you watch the video carefully you will notice that the car is in the air, then it rotates and hits the column, not a pole, with the majority of the impact sustained by the A pillar. That column is grouted to the road and is probably made of 8mm to 10mm thick mild steel and is extremely heavy. Certainly heavier than the car.

The car's speed coupled with the angle and point of impact completely folded the car in half. I cannot think of any car which would have done any better in this type of a crash.

Originally Posted by audioholic

That is a general statement, which is true. However, the conclusion of the car having bad build quality cant be drawn from such incidents. Its rather absurd. If you watch the raw video clearly, just a second before impact the car hits the kerb and lifts up, which tilts the A Pillar roof joint towards the pole. Here is the actual screengrab before the impact:
Say, a crash similar of the nature of the Honda city would have rarely occurred in Europe. Similarly, going under a truck is uncommon since all the trucks in such developed countries have proper under run bars. It is only in our country that there is havoc everywhere.

There couldn't be a better explanation to this accident then this.

[shubhodeepdas@g]

Originally Posted by reignofchaos

No car's passenger compartment should cave in like that in the event of a crash.

Cars are tested for 60 kph full frontal, 40% frontal overlap and in US for 20% frontal overlap crashes. Side impact is usually tested for 30 - 40 kph. In no situation is a car tested to go roof first into a pole at an angle. Keeping the passenger compartment intact is as much the car's job as it is of the driver.

Originally Posted by phamilyman

Do we even know if he swerved that hard to save someone?

It is a possibility. There are two vehicles stationary on the left. Although the video grabs I have seen so far are poor, but it could be a case of overtaking from left and then loosing control, and overcompensating to the left resulting in a slide.

Originally Posted by audioholic

That is a general statement, which is true. However, the conclusion of the car having bad build quality cant be drawn from such incidents.

Correct. The only way the A pillar won't cave in is if it's of the same strength as the pole. And that's impossible to create.

However, there are few points that come into picture from the rescue video. It is graphic and not posted here.

1. One passenger flew out of the car. That means no seat-belts at the back.
2. The car did not switch off even after the collision (there are people trying to do that in the rescue video). That means there is no emergency fuel cut off.
3. The bystanders dropped the car back on to the road.

Point 1 is clear, seatbelt save lives.
Point 2 is something that others owners can confirm if the car does come built with such a system. If not, then it is a far more important system to have that than just Airbags.
Point 3 is never a good idea, however in this case might it have saved a life.

Attached screen grab of car around the pole. The angle is definitely more than 45°. The lights are still on and hazard lights are not triggered.

[aghate]

Regarding the Delhi Honda City crash. There was a live video being posted on FB by one of the occupants (link below). One can definitely see that the car is being driven rashly. Again, driving rash and high speed are different things. 40 kmph will be rash on a narrow street compared to 120 kmph on a wide open 6 lane highway. It is just assumed that in an accident in India the victim was doing 100+. Yes, the car was driven at high speed but we cannot tell from the footage that it was doing 100+.

This incident is just Natural Selection playing it's part. People will do stupid things for a few minutes of glory and chest thumping as there are many social media platforms to display such acts. Younger people especially need to be advised on this.

https://www.facebook.com/tushar.keva...&theater&ifg=1