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Old 25th August 2023, 16:14   #38761
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by nfs250 View Post
The width of the loading bay on the Bolero is clearly wider than the bolero cabin.
In this case warning or hazard lights need to be fixed to indicate the width of the vehicle. In absense of these hazard lights the Bolero's head lights were the only warning to indicate the width of the Bolero. This was probably not factored by the poor Jimny driver which caused the doors of the Jimny to be torn off.
An accident is usually a cause of many contributing factors. The illegal width of the bolero pick up and the clamps of the bolero are definitely contributing factors, but the bottom line is that the roof of the Jimny cant open the way it did. I'm pretty sure there has to be roll over protection in the international Jimny. It remains to be seen whether the same is available in the Indian Avatar. This is very worrying as I too have a Jimny and drive lot distance frequently.
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Old 25th August 2023, 16:46   #38762
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by sreerknair View Post
In India, money can't buy happiness; but it can definitely buy things that bring happiness. No publication, media outlet has mentioned the name of the culprit, but the poor victims names are flashed across. Police and the PR team of the said VVIP tried to cook up a story and diverted the public attention for the first 2 days. They might have even given a fake name to the VVIPs and it was in news initially, but removed now.
There should be exemplary punishment for these so called "VVIP" guys. But actually the opposite will happen. In the city of my current residence (Hyderabad), I see a very large proportion of luxury cars being driver rashly. Rich brats doing insane speeds in narrow internal roads is quite common. One mistake and a poor pedestrian or a two wheeler guy would loose there life. I was recently overtaken on the ORR by a Bentley which would easily be doing 200 Kmph+. May be government should set up a central organization to tackle the so called VVIP offenders. Given how easily they manipulate the system go scot-free.
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Old 25th August 2023, 17:19   #38763
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

Aggressive bus drivers and a careless auto

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Old 25th August 2023, 17:24   #38764
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

Ah, the "I will merge without bothering to wait" and on the other side, the "how dare you merge in front of me, don't you know who I am?!"

Generally and no offence to the drivers of buses and autos who follow rules, these two categories are stereotypically chaotic.
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Old 25th August 2023, 17:33   #38765
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
Getting totalled is fine. But the way this Jimny got stripped off all over the roof and side doors just by a side swipe of Bolero is something beyond acceptable. The sole reason of the fatality was because the person was thrown out on to to the road through one of these openings. Beyond doubt, the build quality to be questioned.
The same impact on a 5 Star global NCAP (take your pick) car will have similar results. The A Pillar is not built to ALL the crash energy of a commercial vehicle and a packed car hurtling towards each other. It is simple physics.

If they could, then there is no point in engineering crumple zones for energy absorption.

Here crash energy = 1/2 X (mass of pick up + mass of Jimny) X (speed of Jimny + speed of pickup)^2 -----------------(crash engineers, i know i am oversimplfying this....) all concentrated on the poor A pillar.

This makes the energy offset crash test of any NCAP look cute ( Energy = 1/2 X Mass of car X 60km/h^2). The entire crumple zone ans passenger shell is available to absorb and dissipate energy.

Let us not jump to conclusions and sell insecurity please.

Last edited by ashivas89 : 25th August 2023 at 17:40.
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Old 25th August 2023, 20:01   #38766
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by navaneeth View Post
Aggressive bus drivers and a careless auto
Have you heard of the term 'First mover advantage' - It is defined as follows.

A first-mover advantage can be simply defined as a firm's ability to be better off than its competitors as a result of being first to market in a new product category.

This is Indian Style application - Hit the Auto, get off the perpetrators bus and start hitting a totally unrelated next lane bus - because of 'I wont yield' mentality.
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Old 25th August 2023, 22:35   #38767
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by ashivas89 View Post
. The entire crumple zone ans passenger shell is available to absorb and dissipate energy.
.
Roof and doors ripping of isn’t the feature of crumple zone. The death of the poor passenger is just because he was thrown out of the vehicle because of the so called crumple zone that you are calling it as. Not sure if this accident is worth it to apply those physics equations, rather call a spade a spade.
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Old 25th August 2023, 23:40   #38768
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by Travelling_Monk View Post
A 10cr. worth Rolls Royce Phantom meets with an accident due to a moron driving a worst possible vehicle to be on wrong side of an expressway that too at high speed.
A new “moron” has emerged !

A senior police official has confirmed that industrialist and Kuber Group director Vikas Malu was among the three occupants of the Rolls-Royce that smashed into a petrol tanker at a high speed. Mr Malu is undergoing treatment at a hospital in Gurugram.


https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/kube...hi-cop-4329674
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Old 26th August 2023, 00:16   #38769
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by ashivas89 View Post

Let us not jump to conclusions and sell insecurity please.


Quote:
Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
Roof and doors ripping of isn’t the feature of crumple zone. The death of the poor passenger is just because he was thrown out of the vehicle because of the so called crumple zone that you are calling it as. Not sure if this accident is worth it to apply those physics equations, rather call a spade a spade.

Not here to defend the Jimny - even the Euro spec model has proven to be lacking structural integrity.

However, I do think that ashivas89 has a point. In this case, all of crash energy was focused on the A-pillar, and it may simply not be designed to absorb, and more importantly dissipate, all of it.

To draw a more common analogy, many 5-star rated cars lose their entire structure during underruns; this is one of the reasons why underruns are far more dangerous than frontal crashes. Please refer to this photo of an XUV 700 which underran a bus

Accidents in India | Pics & Videos-images-4-21.jpeg

Also, paradoxically, crashes with very little offset are more dangerous than those with a wider offset. This is because all of the energy is focused through a very small surface. This is the reason why it is easier to cut through butter with a knife than with a flatter object.

In this case, unfortunately, the accident had very little offset. Hence, it is very difficult to predict whether a safer vehicle - like the Scorpio N - would've fared any better.
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Old 26th August 2023, 00:26   #38770
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

Quote:
Originally Posted by balenoed_ View Post
Roof and doors ripping of isn’t the feature of crumple zone. The death of the poor passenger is just because he was thrown out of the vehicle because of the so called crumple zone that you are calling it as. Not sure if this accident is worth it to apply those physics equations, rather call a spade a spade.
I am sorry you seem to have totally misunderstood my post.

I am talking about there being NO CRUMPLE ZONE to absorb any impact and the A pillar bearing all the brunt. The results would not be too different even if you were to swap the Jimny with a Mahindra thar, a 4- star car. NO CAR IS DESIGNED to take an impact in such a concentrated manner.

It is just an unfortunate freak accident and has nothing to do with the car the occupants were in.

Last edited by ashivas89 : 26th August 2023 at 00:27.
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Old 26th August 2023, 07:40   #38771
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by deathwalkr View Post
Ah, the "I will merge without bothering to wait" and on the other side, the "how dare you merge in front of me, don't you know who I am?!"

Generally and no offence to the drivers of buses and autos who follow rules, these two categories are stereotypically chaotic.
The two major groups contributing to the menace here in Cochin. They are more aggressive now due to the Onam rush and contribute to make the traffic block worse by jumping the lane.

But having said that, not all bus/auto drivers are bad. I happened to take a bus last month for couple of kms. The driver was really really patient along the worst stretch in Cochin even when other drivers tried to bully him. Another amazing thing was that he didn't even use the horn and it was a smooth ride (Usually the launch is quicker than a Porsche 911 ). I wanted to make a note of the bus name, but forgot.
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Old 26th August 2023, 08:44   #38772
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

Another observation is the gap kept between the vehile being overtaken, the distance between the overtaking vehicle and oncoming vehicle, relative speed , ability of the overtaking vehicle to clear the oncoming vehicle's path with atleast 50 mtrs to spare.
Here most drivers practice just in time which leaves no margin for any errors. The oncoming vehicle driver rarely decelerates unles it is a lorry. With no one ready to relent overtaking is always a nightmare even on 6 lane highways. Pune Mumbai expressway, old NH 4 are places where one just has to be infinitely patient just to overtake.
Add bad , potgile riddled roads without side markers/reflectors and properly painted median dividers which are visible adds to the woes.
It simply takes out any pleasure of driving.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Neil Roy View Post
An accident is usually a cause of many contributing factors. The illegal width of the bolero pick up and the clamps of the bolero are definitely contributing factors, but the bottom line is that the roof of the Jimny cant open the way it did. I'm pretty sure there has to be roll over protection in the international Jimny. It remains to be seen whether the same is available in the Indian Avatar. This is very worrying as I too have a Jimny and drive lot distance frequently.
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Old 26th August 2023, 08:51   #38773
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by nfs250 View Post
The width of the loading bay on the Bolero is clearly wider than the bolero cabin.
...
I wonder how loading bays wider than the width of the front cabin are allowed and passed by the RTO. I see so many vehicle transport trucks on our highways plying unfettered with the loading bay wider by atleast 2 feet on either side without any hazard lights.
I agree that commercial vehicles and passneger vehicles are given too much leeway on the body style, even at manufacturer level. The only addition I see on the Bolero Pik-up is that there's a tall frame welded to the pikup bed to prevent items in the cargo bay from hitting the driver cabin. The body has not been widened, it's stock. And from what I've seen, most of the aftermarket frame work is done with cheap MS pipes that bend easily on impact. The cargo bay though, is designed to be sturdy to protect the loads. I think that the pics show that the doors and other panels are stuck on the bottom part of the protuding cargo bay.

Accidents in India | Pics & Videos-bolero-maxitruck.jpg

What we can't know is whether the truck or the Jimny was in the wrong side or not, and what the speed of the vehicles was. We can assume that it was legal speeds of 80-90 kph, and the road looks like the typical narrow single lane that passes off as a "State Highway" in "God's Own Country".

AFAIK, the crash tests never account for a scenario like this. But I do think that a larger vehicle would have kept them safer in this scenario, as the impact point woild have been lower down on the body, rather than at the pillar level.
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Old 26th August 2023, 10:13   #38774
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

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Originally Posted by navaneeth View Post
Aggressive bus drivers and a careless auto

http://Youtu.be/a6w-odGg2Hg
We see the mob running and targeting the bus on the left in the video while the bus with the dashcam was the one that was involved in this accident. What am I missing here?

Based on my rudimentary understanding on the Malayalam news report, the buses were competing as usual for stopping in front of each other and that race and high speed chasing is what caused this?
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Old 26th August 2023, 11:28   #38775
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Re: Accidents in India | Pics & Videos

Lets try to understand this: Robust passenger shell along with crumple zones, this is the way most cars are designed.

The passenger shell must be strong and robust (like a roll cage) to avoid major deformation during impact. It also must keep people safe during a roll over. To do this hardened steel or high strength steel is used which basically becomes a "cage" for the passengers. This increases the torsional rigidity of the structure which is why you will see thick A pillars in cars, excellent example will be the thick A pillars of the Altroz.

Crumple zones on the other hand are designed to "crumple" under impact and dissipate the energy to reduce shock impact. These are usually present in the front/engine compartment side.

From the videos it is evident that the Bolero was doing about 60-70 kmph and not crazy illegal speeds. The Jimmy's speed I could not make out. While multiple factors are in play, this is a failure of the Passenger shell. The way the right side of the Jimmy has ripped off is very scary. Cars these days are designed to take such offset impacts. Offset tests are also carried out in various programs. Please let us not call this a one-off or a freak accident. Car getting ripped off in this way is just not acceptable.

How can one replace a loved one's life?
Heartfelt condolences.
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