Team-BHP > Road Safety

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Old 17th May 2016, 19:23   #106
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
We must ensure we get NCAP equivalent crash protection law, but that's not enough.
No debate there

Until we redesign our roads, and ensure idiotically designed trucks/buses/carts are not off the roads, the accident and death statistics will remain as it is, even if we all drive the world's safest cars with the highest NCAP ratings.
While it would be admirable to meet or exceed highest safety standards not just in crash testing but overall transportation engineering, providing bare minimum structural and secondary safety would be a good start.

What's the point in thinking about cars not being safe under complex real-world Indian scenarios when they can't even pass muster under standard, straightforward test conditions.

Be great if the Indian auto industry learns to sprint some day, today it would just be enough if we can actually learn to stand on our feet first.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 17th May 2016 at 19:26.
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:24   #107
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Not really surprising to see the results- Apart from the Scorpio. Expected a rugged proper SUV to fare better. The way the cars crumple is downright scary :(

What exactly was Renault trying with Kwid I, II, III. It's like NCAP tested once and told Renault that it totally failed, then Renault does some tweaks and comes up with a new version-which also fails (although not specifically tested if version 3 failed it is safe to assume that version 2 also would have failed), and then they tweak it again and come up with a third version-which fails again. It is as if they are somehow expecting it to pass the test. If they were serious about safety, they should have done it right the first time instead of trying different things to make it pass the NCAP test. This is a world class manufacturer we are talking about.

Not sure why the Eeco was picked. It is an old model and did not need NCAP to test and tell us that it has failed the test.

Last edited by Rajeevraj : 17th May 2016 at 19:28.
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:28   #108
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Important Crash Safety Lessons:

1) Airbags prevent injury only to the head.

2) Injuries to other parts of the body (chest, legs etc) too are life threatening, even at 65 kmph impact.

3) Only properly crash tested and engineered cars can reduce injuries to torso/limbs
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:39   #109
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by veyron_head View Post
So why sell those variants, knowing it could kill the driver?
Well it's demand based market where people prefer VXI for Fog lamps and JVC stereo than ABS and Airbag. Specially in small car market where difference of few thousands is deal breaker manufacturer didn't have much of a choice.
Luckily things are changing with almost every new product is being offered with Airbag/ ABS but I feel govt. regulations will play a big role. A person ready to spend 2 lac can pay 30 thousand more for safety.

I can recall my friends close relative died when their car crashed with a tree in poor old Alto LXI, clear example where airbags could have saved lives. 2 years down the line he bought an Amaze (car with boot) base version with no airbag and ABS just to save 60k. I was furious but that's what it is.
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:51   #110
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I really would like to know the crash worthiness of the Baleno that ply in India. The Euro NCAP rating of Baleno with 6 airbags was a measly 3 stars. So I have my doubts regarding the one with 2 airbags that we have over here.
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:51   #111
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by AppyS
Damn, just the look of that running board on kwid 1 bending under impact is enough to give nightmares. Wonder why do these manufacturers take people for a ride in the name of making cars affordable. .,..
And to think that this car was voted Team-BHP COTY !!!!
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:52   #112
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

If a car is structurally compromised, no amount of airbags and seat belts can prevent injuries.

These set of tests, specially on the Scorpio, goes to highlight this aspect. Here we have a proper ladder-frame, tough as nails, perceived as butch, heavy SUV which is expected to earn at least 2 (if not 3) stars when it goes through an impact in a crash test.

But instead, it gets none.

A real eye-opener for all those who thought tough, butch and heavy metal is enough protection.

As for the product in question, no more "might" and "muscle" inside, eh Mahindra?

I have been reading in the last few pages from most T-BHPians about how they are hoping and praying that other cars fare better. These sets of results show that most car manufacturers simply don't care. They know the mass market is swayed by fuel economy figures and plethora of features inside the car, and churn their products out accordingly while laughing their way into the banks.

When such an event gets highlighted and raises a storm, they promptly announce "optional" variants of the models in their lineup with one/two airbags and/or ABS units. Most of them aren't even available for ready delivery.

How serious and committed are the big players towards safety, one wonders. If these cars fare so poorly under standard, controlled conditions inside test laboratories at speeds of 64 kmph, I shudder to think what would happen to such a car on our broken, undulating, windy, rainy, pothole-infested, traffic-filled highways at speeds of 100+ kmph!

If it's a product certified as "India-specific", be sure that it comes with plenty of compromises. BUT, until the buyer puts a firm foot down and rejects that car because of lack of safety features, car manufacturers simply won't care. And they won't stop churning their bestsellers out and feed them continuously to the voracious masses who are happily ready to gobble them up, with discount offers, free accessories, etc.

Sad thing is, safety is still not a priority for the common Indian customer. As long as he has a touchscreen Head Unit, buttons on the steering, cavernous cabin space + boot, gizmo-this, gizmo-that, he doesn't care if the car has Airbags or not, or has no idea what an ABS unit is and what it's utility is in his day-to-day drives.

Hopefully the Bharat NCAP will resolve this problem, AND educate the common man about how critical safety features are. Maybe then road rage will take a backseat as well, as people realise the value of human life. And finally, the common man will start wearing seat belts and make his loved ones wear them too.

Maybe I am wishing for too much.

But then, as like others, I can only hope.

Until then, the Altos, Kwids & the Scorpio taxis will continue to ply all around us.

Harsh, but true.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 17th May 2016 at 19:55.
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Old 17th May 2016, 20:30   #113
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Have been following the news on Team BHP, and surprisingly on Times Now on TV. The outrage, the bashing, the concern, the lividity; all can be seen in so many of the comments. However, this news came as a personal concern to me since I own one of these cars. A car, that I waited to book, and the moment it was made available with airbags, convinced my wife to pay a differential to be safe. Today, the car is driven by my wife, today it was chauffeuring my parents. To have it reported as 'unstable' is not only surprising, but feels like a slap on the face. I thought the Scorpio was one tough vehicle, one tug at its panels and you'll know that it gives you the illusion of invincibility. What more, i had Airbags and ABS to take me the further distance of safety.

I remember from the launch streaming, of who i recollect to be Mr. Pawan Goenka, who stated that the Scorpio was re-built ground up and that the front crash tips of the chassis are now manufactured using a hydro-forming technique, which is a process basically used for manufacturing parts that have variable thickness. This "apparently" made the car compliant to European Safety requirements. Where is that gentleman now? And how does a lying, conniving and absolutely distrustful little Company, be heralded as 'customer-centric' by us? I have read enough threads and discussions over here to get to that, however my personal interaction with them (or lack of it) has me thinking completely otherwise.

I agree to most of our comments, we should not pretend to be safety conscious, if we, as a market, can't be ready to pay for safety. Maruti had the audacity to say that people don't book cars paying a premium for safer measures. Are we going to look at that touchscreen for a notification or look out for that magic button to eject us 'electronically' in the event of a mishap? Shamingly, disgraceful attitude of car manufacturers in our country. This needs to be heard by the highest echelons of the government, SIAM and the auto industry. We, as a small but well-represented group, can only provide invaluable wise decisions in our circle to deter people from buying these cars. 2017, 2019 is too far off; when we know ouR next highway ride could be much quicker and much more dangerous. I will have to drive my Scorpio, and if something untoward happens to me, let the reason be known!

Drive safe, and drive carefully. Maybe the car you have, doesn't love you back as much as you thought.
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Old 17th May 2016, 20:42   #114
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

As things stand today, if you want safety under 4 lakh rupees, your best bet is the pre-owned car market.
I have a booking for the airbag Kwid solely because after seeing the crash tests of Alto and Eon, I figured it was comparatively the safest option at 4.8L OTR. Not very happy to see its crash test compared to those of Liva and Polo.

The same ~5L gets one a safer, 1-2 years old pre-owned Etios Liva or Polo. Something I'll consider before my purchase.
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Old 17th May 2016, 20:58   #115
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

As expected automakers react to the Global NCAP tests,

A Hyundai's spokesperson
Hyundai vehicles are designed and built to meet all the prescribed safety standards set by Indian regulatory authorities.
Spokesperson from Renault
the cars sold in India already adhere to Indian safety standards, but showed support for the adoption of international safety norms in the country
Spokesperson from Mahindra,

All Mahindra automotive products are developed and manufactured to meet or exceed the safety standards set in India for a safe driving experience. In fact, many models exceed the expected regulations of 2019. The star rating as released by Global NCAP in the latest crash test was conducted on non-airbag variant of the Scorpio.
Maruti Suzuki India’s chairman RC Bhargava,
Standards for testing cars made in India are fixed by the Indian government. All car manufacturers follow those standards.

Last edited by volkman10 : 17th May 2016 at 21:01.
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Old 17th May 2016, 21:01   #116
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I am actually not at all surprised to read this. When I first bought a car (it is one of the cars which had a zero rating today) I had very little idea, infact I didnt know how to drive, only ride a 2 wheeler!

As soon as I saw this notification I sent the article to my wife. We are out in the market for many months searching for a new car. My topmost criteria is safety. I was rejecting cars which has 2 airbags but my wife kept saying its ok, it doesn't matter. I have diligently researched and I am still unable to decide. I am willing to make other compromises in my car but not on safety. Some of my observations for less than 17/18L cars in my shortlist are as follows:

Ecosport Automatic: Has 6 airbags, ESP, ABS, TCS, Hill Assist, only 2 disc brakes. But I have little idea on the structural integrity of the body
Ecosport Ecoboost/Tdci: Has 6 airbags, ABS. No ESP, TCS & hill assist & only 2 disc brakes. Again no idea on structural integrity
The cars did feel very stable on my multiple test drives.

Vento TSI: 2 airbags only, ESP, ABS, Hill assist & only 2 disc brakes. Body is the most superior as far as I know. Would have been better with 6 airbags though.
This was 'the' most stable car I drove. period.

City CVT: 2 airbags, ABS & only 2 disc brakes. Thats all. It felt very light. I did not like it.
BRV: Avoid was the first instinct I felt when I saw it

SCross: 2 airbags, ABS, 4 disc brakes. Felt quite planted. But the European version is out of the world in terms of all the safety features. Why this Maruti!
Vitara Brezza: Same as Scross except 2 disc brakes only.

Creta Petrol: 2 airbags, ABS & only 2 disc brakes. I am not an expert but the HIVE structure should be really well built from a layman's viewpoint
Creta SXO: This has everything except all Disc brakes.

I drove a few other cars such as Duster, XUV & just to feel luxury even a landrover discovery sport!

My requirement is actually a petrol car but even if I were to switch to a diesel then Creta SXO is the best. Amongst petrol its the Ecosport (AT is brilliant in terms of safety I think).
I loved VW Vento but 2 airbags doesnt inspire a lot of confidence and moreover its VW.

So the bottom line is that all the weekend test drives, reading on forum and elsewhere and finally today's news has left me stuck with my featherweight Hyundai Eon.

Any advice would be appreciated as I am a little scared and I need to take a decision soon to book a safe car for my family. Thanks.
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Old 17th May 2016, 21:13   #117
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Mahindra - as much as we adore them, we have to loathe them..

9 years back I posted this.

9 years on and they haven't learnt a thing, except doling out new boxes..
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Old 17th May 2016, 21:28   #118
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by dheepak10 View Post
You may want to rethink the statement after seeing the image below. The Celerio structure is absolutely intact.
Yes the cabin remained intact. How did it loose so badly?
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Old 17th May 2016, 21:29   #119
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Really poor show from all the cars. The Celerio seems to have come the closest to a stable body structure though.

I'm still curious why these cars were chosen. The Eeco is a really irrelevant candidate!
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Old 17th May 2016, 21:37   #120
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I particularly despise Maruti's approach to the whole mess. Not only do they refuse to actually do anything about their tin-can build quality (no offense to tin cans), their head honcho went as far as claiming Indians don't need safety equipment!

Before someone says they provide (O) variants, I probably have a better chance finding a Unicorn on a rainbow than a Maruti budget model's (O) variant in ready stock or easily procurable somewhere. Oh yes, I tried and so have a lot of others. There's even a thread dedicated to the sham here.

Last edited by Chetan_Rao : 17th May 2016 at 21:41.
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