More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

[shashanka]

Originally Posted by challasravi

XUV had received a 4 out of 5 sometime back (couple of years back) in ANCAP (Australia). Please google for historical news on this. I have not seen any new ANCAP results for it though.

Well now, that is certainly heartening news - I guess I've been out of touch with this whole NCAP safety business! So, unless Global NCAP have got a whole new set of safety parameters, the XUV should do reasonably well there too. If that does indeed happen, it would be balm to the soul of a whole lot of us here!

[TD_GHY]

Originally Posted by amitpunjani

Q.Scorpio variant does come with Airbag, why didn't NCAP test Airbag variant, perhaps the one with airbags, would have got some decent score? Or does NCAP only test the base variant?

The base variant was tested. Consider the case where base variant scores 0 but top variant scores 1 or 2. If top variant is used, manufacturer will label all variants as 1 or 2 and sell them. But if the base variants get a score above 0, it can be safely assumed that all other variants will also be 0+.

Q. Do OEMs voluntarily provided there cars for testing or is it NCAP initiative?

Cars were bought without the knowledge of manufacturers. Else, they wouldn't have allowed the base variants. But it seems like Renault did voluntarily. Sending different cars by tweaking the design with every iteration.

[veyron_head]

Originally Posted by ashua

The brazen attitude with which R C Bhargava dismisses the test results because they were done at 64 km/h and not at 56 km/h is both ridiculous and unbelievable. I am no expert but surely a difference of 8 km/h is not going to result in a night and day difference in the test results.

Not Suprised. Here is what he said in 2014, equally defiant about need for safety: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3579873

I was just wondering, if I am willing to pay more for a good structure and safety features, does Maruti actually have at least one 5 star car that i can buy in India?

[sawah]

Originally Posted by TD_GHY

But it seems like Renault did voluntarily. Sending different cars by tweaking the design with every iteration.

But Renault was too smart for their own good. Did not the report say that Renault improve on the drive side but no changes done to the passenger side? But the smart GNCAP engineers saw through it.

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by sidzzone

I can understand Airbags and ABS will add to the cost of the car, but if structural safety is considered during development, will it add significant cost to each unit of the car?

The net per vehicle cost impact is not high (for enhancing structural safety; not counting ABS & airbags), but to the bean counters sitting with only porfitability in mind that also matters.

To my estimate it won't be more than Rs. 1000-1500 per vehicle for the added stiffeners etc. This is assuming that the manufacturer has already planned a variant for higher spec (export etc.); i.e. design and tooling is ready and validated.

Originally Posted by Vigkey

There are reports that Ford Ecosport made in India but exported to other countries have various additional components to enhance structural strength compared to the ones sold in India...

I would believe the ratings to be true only if cars tested were made in and purchased from India and not export models. Hope this clarifies.

This malpractice is rampant among almost all manufacturers big and small; and not limited to India only. I have seen this myself; so, I agree big time your point.

Originally Posted by ashua

The brazen attitude with which R C Bhargava dismisses the test results because they were done at 64 km/h and not at 56 km/h is both ridiculous and unbelievable. I am no expert but surely a difference of 8 km/h is not going to result in a night and day difference in the test results.

Can someone ask him how the regulatory testing speed was limited to 56km/h and not 64 km/h ? The automobile manufacturer associations across world lobby and usually get what suits them. The usual excuses are limited availability of technology, cost, capacity, blah, blah...

[harryputtar]

Originally Posted by deevee

I loved VW Vento but 2 airbags doesnt inspire a lot of confidence and moreover its VW.

Any advice would be appreciated as I am a little scared and I need to take a decision soon to book a safe car for my family. Thanks.

From your post I can judge that you are averse to buying from the VW stable, but given your requirements and your passion for safety, why do you not consider the Jetta TSI?

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Isn't it a case of no airbags equals fail? A car with airbags, but with an easily crushed cabin might fail, but can a car without airbags, however good the cabin structure/crumple zones are even possibly pass?

In which case, there is hardly any point in testing a no-air-bag car. They might as well just stamp it Fail and return it undamaged.

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Not entirely true. One star rating is possible if the structure is good enough. Case in point- FIAT Palio and Ford KA without airbags received one star rating.

Please see the post here for more detail-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3804177

Thad sir, CrAzY dRiVeR has already replied to your question I believe. In any case, having a stable structure should be the least of the things that a manufacturer can do when providing a car to a customer.

Before all things, I hope Indian Govt makes this mandatory. At least will make the recovery of people easier.

[msdivy]

Was looking at the meaning of the star rating. Here is explanation from ANCAP:

1. In a 1 star ANCAP safety rated car, there is a very high risk of death or serious injury, with low levels of protection for both occupants, particularly resulting from injury to the head of both driver and passenger, and lower limbs of the driver red (poor).
   While the passenger fares better than the driver, the risk of serious injury or death is high from head injury. Occupants are likely to die from the injuries sustained in a 1 star rated car.
   
2. In a 2 star ANCAP safety rated car, there is a high risk of serious injury or death resulting from injury to the head and right leg of the driver. Red (poor) for the head, lower right leg and both feet of the driver indicate that these injuries are likely to be serious and life threatening.
   Orange (marginal) shown on the body of the driver and passenger also indicates high levels of exposure to serious injury or death.
   
3. In a 3 star ANCAP safety rated car, the prominence of orange (marginal) for the driver's head, chest, upper legs and lower right leg indicates a moderate risk of serious injury or death. The passenger fares better than the driver with good protection of the head and lower left leg green (good).
   Yellow (acceptable) for the torso, upper left leg and right lower leg of the passenger indicates a lower risk of serious injury.
   
4. In a 4 star ANCAP safety rated car,
   green (good) illustrates a high level of protection of the head and neck, greatly reducing the risk of serious injury or death resulting from impact to these areas.
   Orange (marginal) indicates that there is moderate risk of serious injury to the chest of both driver and passenger, as well as the upper and lower right leg of the driver.
   
5. In a 5 star ANCAP safety rated vehicle, the prominence of green (good) for the head, body and legs, illustrates a high level of protection and survivability for both driver and passenger.
   Yellow (acceptable) on the lower legs and the chest of the passenger, shows only a slight chance of serious injury to these areas, which are not likely to be life threatening.

Verdict: ANCAP recommends 5 star rated cars. Accept nothing less.

Link: https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings-explained

PS: What does '0' star mean?

[AutoNoob]

Originally Posted by msdivy

What does '0' star mean?

As you shared, 1-star means "very high risk of death or serious injury"

so 0-star probably means that the occupants with turn to pulp inside these tin boxes, i.e. death is certain

[damodar]

Originally Posted by TD_GHY

Every car or bike sold in India ply on Indian highways, from the tempo to the Nano to the Range Rovers. And everyone does good speeds. I remember a Nano overtaking me on the highway few years back while I was doing 80.

My point was not about NANO being safer than Kwid but the way majority of the buyers of both the cars will drive them. Kwid on highway with 4 adults can easily do 120kmph whereas only a few foolhardy will even try doing more than 80kmph in a Nano since this comes with drum brakes all around. If Kwid is as unsafe as a Nano then aren't we endangering so many lives by giving them a car which can get into trouble because of a powerful engine and light build. My suggestion is if in pursuit kmol building lighter cars is inevitable then keep them restricted to lower speeds of 110kmph like how Honda restricts diesel Amaze's top speed to 140kmph.

[shobhitk]

while the lack of adequate safety provisions (as adjudged by NCAP) in the cars are major cause of concern, the following contribute hugely towards road accidents and resultant deaths :-

1. Seat belt not fastened.
2. Driver slept while driving, due to lack of sufficient rest.
3. Driving under the influence of alcohol.
4. Over speeding.

All the above mentioned factors are attributes of willful neglect by the driver. Even a good protective car will fail to save the occupants of the car if the driver is not cautious and is in habit of neglecting the basic safety norms.

[NSK123]

Cars with Airbag not scoring well in crash test is definitely not acceptable. It's cheating. Why should one then invest in airbags? Time to make rules more stringent. I think auto companies are just doing what's told than what's needed.

Need a airbag, we give you. That's all :(

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by damodar

My point was not about NANO being safer than Kwid but the way majority of the buyers of both the cars will drive them. Kwid on highway with 4 adults can easily do 120kmph whereas only a few foolhardy will even try doing more than 80kmph in a Nano since this comes with drum brakes all around. If Kwid is as unsafe as a Nano then aren't we endangering so many lives by giving them a car which can get into trouble because of a powerful engine and light build. My suggestion is if in pursuit kmol building lighter cars is inevitable then keep them restricted to lower speeds of 110kmph like how Honda restricts diesel Amaze's top speed to 140kmph.

Nano has a cutoff speed of 105 kmph. Doesn't do any good for its safety, the Nano is done at 64 kmph as per Global NCAP. The speed limit is not because of structural integrity considerations, its just because the little thing cannot handle higher speeds.

[Nav-i-gator]

Originally Posted by NSK123

Cars with Airbag not scoring well in crash test is definitely not acceptable. It's cheating. Why should one then invest in airbags? Time to make rules more stringent. I think auto companies are just doing what's told than what's needed.

Need a airbag, we give you. That's all :(

Agree!

Airbags (2 , 4 even 6 airbags) are mostly used as a bragging point in sales pitch - See, we are giving you 6 airbags, you can assume that you will be safe. If the body shell itself is not capable of withstanding a collision, 6 airbags deploying will effectively translate to 6 explosions all around your face, while the car itself is crushing you already

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by fine69

I thought it was just Global and then ASEANCAP.

Each region has it's NCAP.

C-NCAP for China
Latin NCAP for Central and Southern America
ASEAN NCAP for South East Asian countries
A NCAP for Australia and NZ
Euro NCAP for Europe
J-NCAP for Japan

Originally Posted by amitpunjani

Q.Scorpio variant does come with Airbag, why didn't NCAP test Airbag variant, perhaps the one with airbags, would have got some decent score? Or does NCAP only test the base variant?

Makes sense to test the base variant. A customer has to get the safety equipment, irrespective of variant. A bad score on the base variant can help us draw (unscientific) conclusions on the higher variants.

Q. Do OEMs voluntarily provided there cars for testing or is it NCAP initiative?

NCAP buys them in the Indian context.

Originally Posted by sawah

why do they not use these services during the design stage itself

They should, but they don't. Many cars are designed for more mature markets, but the Indian version gets lesser safety equipment.

Do these cars come with all components under the hood?

Yes. Fuels and oils are replaced with non-flammable liquids. I think the battery is replaced a dead-weight.

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

In which case, there is hardly any point in testing a no-air-bag car. They might as well just stamp it Fail and return it undamaged.

My opinion is different here. Take the case of the Polo and old gen Figo. Their body structures were actually good under impact. Lack of Airbags didn't fetch them a rating. (I'll not elaborate on what VW did afterwards)

Make airbags standard on such cars, and we've got a car with a good crash safety rating. 4 stars for the Indian Polo is good. With the Curtain airbags and some more electronic aids, it might get a 5 star rating.

If the fails, just stamp "FAIL."

Originally Posted by shobhitk

while the lack of adequate safety provisions (as adjudged by NCAP) in the cars are major cause of concern, the following contribute hugely towards road accidents and resultant deaths

I know driving discipline and etiquette are absent in our country, but that's a topic for a different thread.

We're talking about how your car protects you in case of an untoward incident.

You're right- Prevention is better than cure.