[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by Nissan1180

There's another thing that I constantly worry about these days-the safety of our public transport vehicles. Except Volvo and the factory built coaches from Tata/AL, there is no assessment of the safety of the buses that are used by operators on inter-city routes. Most of them are built by coach builders who focus on copying the Volvo design elements. But what about including crumple zones?

Do elephants need claws and teeth to protect itself in the Jungle?

Because buses are the biggest things on the road, passengers don't even get seat belts.

[Thad E Ginathom]

City Driving Conceptions, Preconceptions, Misconceptions and International Comparisons.

Again, my much-posted example: try walking into a wall. See how much it hurts.

It is eleven years since I left London and moved to Chennai. My average journey speed here is higher now than it was in London then. If people really want to know what bumper-to-bumper traffic is, forget India: go try London!

In the faster and yet infinitely less disciplined world of Indian-city driving, safety features, which Indian manufacturers and Indian customers are happily leaving out are actually much more important.

And, moving on, how about stuff that is pretty standard on cars outside India, but not found even on supposed-to-be-safer cars like VW's Polo, such as safety-belt pre-tensioners?

[shobhitk]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Don't know which 'Big' city you are talking about.

I have lived in Delhi for more than 25 years. I am in Pune for last 3 years. Have stayed in Mumbai for close to two years. Have driven extensively in these cities. Travel to Bangalore, Chennai and Kolkata frequently. Although these cities are choked with traffic yet there are quite a lot of roads where you can easily maintain average speeds of 50-60 Kmph.

Oh yes, there are always stretches in the cities, where one can drive fast at 50-60 speed, but Cop regulated traffic has speed limitations, which, in a way is good. Driving fast, without having proper safety, is dangerous. NCAP tests done, close to 60 KMPH show the extent of damage, which can happen to the car as well as the occupants.

[FarPatel]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Previously, I would have rated seat belts and wearing them as more important than airbags --- but, I suppose those poor dummies in the no-air-bag cars would have been belted, so I guess I should review that thinking.

All the dummies were belted alright, but without the airbags you would have noticed that the sudden deceleration pushed their heads down almost to their bellies and then back up again. I'm sure a human in that position would have had his neck snapped in spite of the belt, so yes, airbags and belts are effective only if used together.
Another thing I noticed in one of the cars in the test videos was that the steering wheel moved into the dummy's chest ahead of the rest of the car. that indicates that the steering column, instead of collapsing, would actually help in crushing the driver's ribcage!

[Thad E Ginathom]

By the way, and only slightly offtopic. Based on another when-I-last-looked statistic: what is the difference between above and below 30MPH? (hang on... 48kph)

Above 30MPH, if you hit a pedestrian the chances are that you will kill them.

(there are probably other differences, but that is the one that sticks in my mind.)

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

And, moving on, how about stuff that is pretty standard on cars outside India, but not found even on supposed-to-be-safer cars like VW's Polo, such as safety-belt pre-tensioners?

My 2009 i10 has seatbelt pretensioners. Isn't it the case that all airbag equipped cars must have seat belt pretensioners? Else the airbags themselves would turn out to be the biggest threat in case of a collision.

[Thad E Ginathom]

I could be wrong. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think my 2014 Polo, with its two airbags, has pretensioners.

[Lobogris]

Originally Posted by smartcat

I'm just being argumentative here.

Why just 2 airbags? Why not go with something with 8 airbags only as minimum? And something that has radar braking? And night vision? How about only buying 2 tonne SUVs, because 1 tonne hatchbacks are less safer? How about only riding in the backseat and hiring a driver instead? You know, backseats are safer?

Where do you stop? Safety technology will keep improving every 3 years, if you want to be really safe, you need to constantly upgrade your car every 3 years.!

We can look at this argument in the opposite manner as well. Going by your logic, why have seatbelts? Why have a windscreen? Why have doors? Afterall auto rickhshaws manage fine. Even though the absolute safest car might be difficult to aquire, that doesn't mean one shouldn't try to get the safest one that is reasonably possible. We mustn't fall so much behind US or EU. Side and curtain airbags have been mandatory along with ESP there for over a decade while we are still debating front airbags and ABS. 2019 is the possible implementation deadline for just front airbags in India. Two decades after the more advanced nations and even then you want to object to it? Why should Indian lives be less valuable?

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I could be wrong. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think my 2014 Polo, with its two airbags, has pretensioners.

Sadly, you're right. The Polo has never had pre-tensioners in India. Might have given it that elusive fifth star in the NCAP tests (the Latin American Vento with pre-tensioners manages to score the full five stars)

[Captain Haddock]

this comparison could be stupid, but posting out of curiosity. Let's take a small car with airbags, say a wagon r or Ritz on one side and a full blown SUV like a TATA SAFARI weighing over 2 tons without airbags. A car without airbags will fail ncap but in real life which would be safer?
PS-SAFARI is just an example any big SUV without airbags would fit in for the comparison.

[Debajyoti]

Slightly off topic, we are debating about ABS, ESP, NCAP ratings, airbags etc but does the common people know their importance? Remember these common people are the majority of car buyers, not enthusiasts like us.
Few months ago we went to buy a car for my relatives. I advised Elite i20 but my relatives preferred the Xcent only because it was a "sedan". Considering the car would be driven all time by a chauffeur, I adviced Xcent S(O) variant as it had all the comfort and safety features without the reversing camera, push button start etc. But the sales person advised the Xcent S variant saying ABS & airbags are not needed inside city so why waste that money, go for the S variant and add some nice seat covers with that extra money. My relatives had no monetory problem to go with the top end variants of Xcent or Elite i20 yet they chose the Xcent S variant "sedan" with those seat covers. This is the mentality of common car buyers and sales persons.
Manufacturers are here to make profit, majority of car buyers prefer fancy seat covers, alloys etc which they can show off over an airbag, ABS, ESP which isn't visible other than a badge or sticker. Only way to make our cars and roads safer is to make safety features mandatory by govt. in all variants, not just optional and making the traffic rules stricter like high fines for not wearing seat belts/helmets, rash driving etc.
P.S. My post was not meant to hurt or insult anyone's feelings, sorry if it has caused any.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by Debajyoti

<snip>
Only way to make our cars and roads safer is to make safety features mandatory by govt. in all variants, <snip>

To set the context right, these are ratings for the levels of protection offered to the occupants of a car. Now a car is not a necessity, just about two percent of India's population owns a car. If buying it is optional, then it should be left to the buyer to decide how much the lives inside the vehicle is worth. A standardized test gives a rating for the protection a particular model offers. If the buyer decides that he/she will not buy an untested vehicle then the "voluntary" option becomes "mandatory" implicitly. If the buyer has that power, then why should the government impose it? Making it mandatory is just forcing the buyer to be aware of what he/she needs to think of before investing in a car. Is consumer education (for non-essential goods) a government responsibility?

It is that common sense that we are missing here. Car buyers places themselves in the less than 2% of the population, it is not too much to expect basic awareness from them. I have to quote something from Shrek II here "Donkey, you HAVE the right to remain silent. What you lack, is the capacity"

In my opinion, the government can add a page in the RTO forms that requires the buyers signature acknowledging that they have been informed about the NCAP ratings (when it starts in India) of the vehicle model they are registering.

[damodar]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

And, moving on, how about stuff that is pretty standard on cars outside India, but not found even on supposed-to-be-safer cars like VW's Polo, such as safety-belt pre-tensioners?

TATA have set a precedent here by offering two airbags with seat belts having load limiters and pre-tensioners in all variants of the TIAGO for 18,000rs. Maybe we will see them as standard in all cars once the Indian safety norms kick in by 2017 since the price is not at all a hindrance for being offered as a standard equipment.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I could be wrong. I'd like to be wrong, but I don't think my 2014 Polo, with its two airbags, has pretensioners.

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Sadly, you're right. The Polo has never had pre-tensioners in India. Might have given it that elusive fifth star in the NCAP tests (the Latin American Vento with pre-tensioners manages to score the full five stars)

Yup - I checked the online brochures. No pretensioners in Polo. or the i20. Even sadder is the fact that the i10 lost the same in the Grand i10 avatar. Jazz advertises it, though it's missing in the brochure.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Because buses are the biggest things on the road, passengers don't even get seat belts.

Actually, the Volvos and Mercs and Scanias come with seatbelts, but after a couple of days, they are removed by the operator.

I've specifically seen belts on Shivneris, and some private buses, only to be removed later. But the first row seats have belts provided for them; atleast in the state govt operated Volvos.