[YashD]

Originally Posted by lurker

I too was thinking same, but my strong fear is that the Indian Punto & Linea base model is still sold without airbags and at most they will get 1 star or at worst 0. Thus they are quiet about it.

I doubt that, both Linea and Punto are extremely well built products and I am quite sure they are going to score pretty well in the crash tests though as per what I have heard if the car tested doesn't comes with Airbags as standard fitment it automatically fails the NCAP test. Please correct me if am wrong.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by YashD

I doubt that, both Linea and Punto are extremely well built products and I am quite sure they are going to score pretty well in the crash tests though as per what I have heard if the car tested doesn't comes with Airbags as standard fitment it automatically fails the NCAP test. Please correct me if am wrong.

Yes, you are correct. The Polo was an example. Initial test was on the base version without airbags. Although the structure was termed stable, it was still awarded 0 stars due to lack of airbags. The subsequent test with airbags, gave it 4 stars.

So, as far as I understand-

• Structurally sound and No Airbags = 0 Stars (or maybe 1 max)
• Structurally sound and minimum 2 airbags = 3/4/5 stars depending on other parameters
• Not structurally sound-with or without airbags =0 or 1 star.

The other point is that visually well built and sturdy does not mean structurally sound-As the Scorpio test showed and at the same time, visually light and flimsy build does not mean an unstable structure- As the Etios showed.

[lurker]

Originally Posted by YashD

I doubt that, both Linea and Punto are extremely well built products and I am quite sure they are going to score pretty well in the crash tests though as per what I have heard if the car tested doesn't comes with Airbags as standard fitment it automatically fails the NCAP test. Please correct me if am wrong.

Yash, I too think both are well built and these are very heavy cars. No doubt to that. But look at Palio ELX without airbags test score in Latin NCAP. It's 1 star. Because that is maximum of what you get for cabin integrity but no airbags. With airbags it is 3 star. Punto got 5 star with additional knee airbags as well. So the base model Punto in India, which is sold without airbags, will get how many is open to speculation but it won't get very much.

they test the base models right ?

[deevee]

Originally Posted by volkman10

Look no further - only two cars ( mass segment) plying on Indian roads have decent G NCAP crash test ratings - Volkswagen's Polo and Toyota's Etios Liva.

Hi Volkman

Where can one get to know the ratings of the Indian cars (specifically cars which are running on Indian raods not necessarily manufactured in India and running elsewhere)

Wanted to find out the ratings for vento & Ecosport actually.


Thanks

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by deevee

Hi Volkman

Where can one get to know the ratings of the Indian cars (specifically cars which are running on Indian raods not necessarily manufactured in India and running elsewhere)

Wanted to find out the ratings for vento & Ecosport actually.

Here are the LATIN NCAP tests for the Ecosport and Vento applicable only to LA markets.




Refer the LATIN/ ASEAN/EURO NCAP sites for more details.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Seat belt is the most important safety system and hence the naming convention for airbags as supplemental restraint systems, primary being seatbelts.

Originally Posted by shobhitk

Airbags are secondary restraint systems. As air bags do not function if the person is not using the seat belt, the importance of seat belts is paramount.

Yes, I understand all that, and I understands the fact that, without seatbelts, airbags can actually be dangerous themselves. What I had done is to overestimate the safety of a properly designed car, with safety belts in use, but no airbags.

Updated thinking: Both seatbelts and air bags are important, but if seat belts (and child seats etc) are not used properly, then all bets are off. Might as well jump off a cliff.

Originally Posted by shobhitk

Air bags have proven utility but if the car is strictly confined to the city limits and driver is cautious

Where did you get those ideas from? I don't think they are right at all.

We have to discard this city-driving idea. Never in my life in UK did I ever hear anything like "Oh, that's ok if you only drive in London!" On the contrary: if you live a couple of hundred miles away from a major city in UK, even if you commute on a motorway daily, your insurance premium will be a fraction of the London/large-city rate reflecting the actual risks involved.

[RavenAvi]

Interesting bit of info by Rush Lane:

The Renault Kwid will make it debut in the Brazliian market from the second half of 2016, and will be assembled from CKD kits imported from India.

Among other things, it will have 4 airbags and ABS inbuilt.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

<snip>
Where did you get those ideas from? I don't think they are right at all.

We have to discard this city-driving idea. Never in my life in UK did I ever hear anything like "Oh, that's ok if you only drive in London!" On the contrary: if you live a couple of hundred miles away from a major city in UK, even if you commute on a motorway daily, your insurance premium will be a fraction of the London/large-city rate reflecting the actual risks involved.

What is applicable in the UK need not be applicable everywhere

In Indian cities (and even in Europe) you can find the Reva or the E2O, electric cars with limited range. You don't find them going much beyond the city limits for obvious reasons. And then there is the Nano, which is not designed to be in a highway or challenging road conditions. I own one which has never been driven for more than 15 kilometers in in one day and that is not even half the the radius of Bangalore. It's purpose is local commute with slightly better protection than a two wheeler, ergo city-driving.

As for insurance premiums, not sure how they are computed in the UK, but it need not always be based on the extent of the damage. It may also be based on the probable frequency of minor accidents.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by sun_king

I own one which has never been driven for more than 15 kilometers in in one day and that is not even half the the radius of Bangalore.

There was a biker guy I know who used to gear up for all major rides, but got killed after returning from a ride and took his gear off just to ride to the nearby grocery shop.

Safety is safety, no matter what the city conditions are. Speeds even inside Bangalore city exceed 40kmph or even 60kmph, except when stuck behind traffic. Enough for a basic Indian car to crumble like we see in the NCAP videos.

[sanchari]

Strange to hear that Nano is not for highways. I know of many people driving it between Bangalore-Mysore, Bangalore-Chennai at least. To claim that its not designed to be driven on highways is patently false.

Within city limits, there is even more danger of accidents. Not every intersection has traffic lights, and if there are no traffic police near signals in Bangalore, many don't even stop and are zooming at high speeds even if they have red light. In many of the intersections, people don't even look and keep driving at high speeds, irrespective of whether kids are on the road or old people are walking etc. Is it a surprise that majority of the cars in major cities of India have dents on them due to careless drivers hitting them? All it requires is someone driving fast to beat the red light and miss it, and crash into cross traffic!

At least on majority of the major highways, there aren't as many intersections. But due to high speeds, crashes can be fatal.

[alphadog]

It is so disheartening to think that these manufacturers are pushing these below par vehicles onto the Indian roads.
Now we have not only, the poor infrastructure, poor road and driving sense of the citizens, chaotic traffic to deal with, we also have vehicles which do not even pass the very basic tests of safety in controlled conditions!. No wonder our casualty rates are so unacceptably high.
It always amuses me how in the car adverts, more emphasis is placed on 'beautifying' accessories like alloy wheels, chrome touches and lighting, rather than ones that actually matter like ABS, airbags, ESP and other safety features. Maybe our Indian janatha is not knowledgeable enough to demand these features, or are they just not bothered about having these?.
Until such time that the car buying public wakes up and demands these basic features and the government also brings about stricter regulations, we are going to see an ever increasing number of casualties.
sad really!!

[shobhitk]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Where did you get those ideas from? I don't think they are right at all.

thanks for the pointer.
It was about seat belts and not the air bags. On the highways, one needs to have the airbags in addition to the seat belts.

[TD_GHY]

Originally Posted by sun_king

And then there is the Nano, which is not designed to be in a highway or challenging road conditions. I own one which has never been driven for more than 15 kilometers in in one day and that is not even half the the radius of Bangalore. It's purpose is local commute with slightly better protection than a two wheeler, ergo city-driving.

Yours is most certainly an one-off case. Not very sure if the Nano was deigned by Tata primarily for easy city commute and not for challenging roads, but I've seen countless number of Nanos doing long trips on the highways, trips on steep slopes, high elevations and they seem to have taken the abuse graciously. If driven and maintained well, it surely is capable of a lot more than just city commute.

Looks can be deceptive. Case in point the Mahindra Scorpio.

[sairamboko]

I own a genx nano. Its safer than most cars. Infact i have observed that nano is stronger than wagon r. I had some small mishaps in my previous wagon r and the bumper and door had to be replaced. In my nano for a similar mishap only few scratches were there. I have taken my nano from Bangalore to Salem, Chennai, Ooty and i dont have any issues with it. Infact the cross wind effect observed in nano is much lesser than in wagonr. As said by others, looks can be deceptive.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by shobhitk

thanks for the pointer.
It was about seat belts and not the air bags. On the highways, one needs to have the airbags in addition to the seat belts.

Thanks for the clarification.

I still think that all this "city driving," line, which we do see often, needs to be dropped from our thinking. It is like saying that city driving is not really dangerous, whereas, once one gets out on the open road, that is when we should be scared.

No: city driving is dangerous. City speeds are dangerous. I am glad that, as an almost-all-city-miles driver, I chose a car with airbags. It's just that recent news on these tests, etc, via Team-BHP and discussions I now regard them as even more important.

It's only city driving --- seems to be an Indian thing. In the only other country where I'm familiar with driving, cities are considered far more dangerous.