[aravind.anand]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

While back in India, after the G-NCAP tests, what will you get with a "new and improved" Scorpio? Bigger, more comfortable seats, reverse camera + sensors and improved plastic quality! (link)

Have they been listening? Seriously?!

Maybe they have been listening, and we sure do know many Indians, actually value -

A touch screen music system over - airbags, that help you avoid touching the steering wheel.
They also are more impressed by show stopping alloy design, over the ABS enabled brakes that stop in time.
And then, the reversing camera above a stronger structure

Outside of team-bhp, not many realize the importance of safety - but that is not an excuse for any manufacturer, despite having the safety features ready for an export market, not giving us an option

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Pawan Kumar Goenka, ----snip ----Seriously?!

The new Scorpio SUV (without airbags) scored a zero safety rating in the Global NCAP testing, but Goenka said that the model tested is built strictly for the Indian domestic market. He said models destined for SA will have the necessary safety items.

Foot, meet mouth.
Face, meet palm.
I'll just be blunt, and say it: Is he stupid?

Can an Indian firm get away with this level of disdain for their home market? Oh, Mr foreign currency. Here, have the good stuff. Geez!

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by RavenAvi

Have they been listening? Seriously?!

Originally Posted by aravind.anand

Maybe they have been listening, and we sure do know many Indians, actually value ... ... ...

Originally Posted by mayankk

Can an Indian firm get away with this level of disdain for their home market? Oh, Mr foreign currency. Here, have the good stuff. Geez!

Originally Posted by mayankk

I'll just be blunt, and say it: Is he stupid?

His sales figures probably say, no, he isn't.

Maybe someone they can't ignore will call them out. Profits at the cost of lives. Marketing with zero conscience.

But who?

Plainly, a bunch of guys on an internet forum doesn't cut it with them, and I guess we all realise that, even given the influence of T-BHP as a whole.

Are these manufacturers unshameable? It looks as if they are.

[bhandary]

Its our legislation that is either obsolete or lacks teeth due to which the manufacturers act with impunity. We still have a long way to go wherein the manufacturers consciously build in safety and offer uncompromising quality to their customers without a watchdog looking over their shoulders.

[Thad E Ginathom]

The bottom line is... the bottom line.

Major corporates have major lobby power all over the world. Wherever they are in any particular country, you can be sure they are going to be fighting for their position.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

His sales figures probably say, no, he isn't.

Actually, I wasn't going after his sales figures. What I meant was why would you say something like that? You can acknowledge that the two versions are built differently, but in the age of 24/7 connectivity, you cannot be so non-diplomatic to appease another market, and not understand that the consumer from the other market will get to read it in about, er, immediately?
In that sense, yeah, stupid.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Actually, I wasn't going after his sales figures. What I meant was why would you say something like that? You can acknowledge that the two versions are built differently, but in the age of 24/7 connectivity, you cannot be so non-diplomatic to appease another market, and not understand that the consumer from the other market will get to read it in about, er, immediately?
In that sense, yeah, stupid.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yes indeed. It is a poke in the eye for the Indian customer.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by mayankk

The new Scorpio SUV (without airbags) scored a zero safety rating in the Global NCAP testing, but Goenka said that the model tested is built strictly for the Indian domestic market. He said models destined for SA will have the necessary safety items.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Can an Indian firm get away with this level of disdain for their home market? Oh, Mr foreign currency. Here, have the good stuff. Geez!

The Scorpio has many variants, and except for the basic S2 which is sold only to institutional buyers, Govt tenders etc (Air bags not a requirement in Govt tenders) all others have Air bags, ABS, EBD, seat belt remonder as an option.
The S2 practically does'nt sell thrugh showrooms, the rest have a option of having it or not for those ready to pay, so why blaim Mahindra. They are in an market where likes of Maruti is a top seller.

Rahul

[heavenlybull]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

The Scorpio has many variants, and except for the basic S2 which is sold only to institutional buyers, Govt tenders etc (Air bags not a requirement in Govt tenders) all others have Air bags, ABS, EBD, seat belt remonder as an option.
The S2 practically does'nt sell thrugh showrooms, the rest have a option of having it or not for those ready to pay, so why blaim Mahindra. They are in an market where likes of Maruti is a top seller.

Rahul

If you read the crash test report again you will notice that Scorpio's body shell itself is rated as unstable. No amount of secondary safety features can compensate for a sub standard body shell nor can spending additional cash on a higher variant give you that stable structure.

To add insult to the injury, Goenka had the audacity to claim that this version of Scorpio is made especially for the Indian customers!

http://www.globalncap.org/wp-content...NO-Airbags.pdf

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by heavenlybull

If you read the crash test report again you will notice that Scorpio's body shell itself is rated as unstable. No amount of secondary safety features can compensate for a sub standard body shell nor can spending additional cash on a higher variant give you that stable structure.

To add insult to the injury, Goenka had the audacity to claim that this version of Scorpio is made especially for the Indian customers!

I agree, that is poor choice of words by Goenka.

However, one cannot rule out the possibility that higher variants of Scorpio has superior crash worthy body structure. On a body on frame chassis, it's all about adding extra protection at the right places and perhaps using higher strength steel. Remember that Scorpio was designed from the beginning with export markets in mind.

Another reason for the above theory - Look what Tata has done for the Aria. The 4x4 variant is fully compliant of European crash safety regulations while 4x2 variant is NOT. Quoting from Team-BHP review of Tata Aria 4x2 -

To save on cost and to make the vehicle lighter (thus, more fuel efficient too), some chassis members have been removed. The Aria 4x2 is unfortunately not Euro NCAP crash rating worthy, as its AWD sibling is.

So perhaps until G-NCAP tests the airbag/ABS variant of the Scorpio, we should go for "Innocent until proven Guilty" school of thought?

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by smartcat

So perhaps until G-NCAP tests the airbag/ABS variant of the Scorpio, we should go for "Innocent until proven Guilty" school of thought?

As with the Kwid, whatever the manufacturers may say, it would seem that the GNCAP-tested cars are bought from dealers. ie... they test the cars that anybody off the street would buy.

That is what is said in this thread.

[heavenlybull]

Originally Posted by smartcat

I agree, that is poor choice of words by Goenka.

However, one cannot rule out the possibility that higher variants of Scorpio has superior crash worthy body structure. On a body on frame chassis, it's all about adding extra protection at the right places and perhaps using higher strength steel. Remember that Scorpio was designed from the beginning with export markets in mind.

Yup, however at this stage that remains just a possibility or perhaps wishful thinking(?). Why would a company add 'extra protection' on higher variants when it means extra cost in manufacturing plus lower fuel economy due to added weight, for a country which doesn't have a crash test program - does not make business sense at all.

And if they can remove these 'added reinforcements' from the lower variants, they can also remove them from higher variants as well for India and save a lot of cash. We don't know that the export versions and the top version sold in India are the same structurally, as of now. Do they come from the same assembly line? I guess only an insider can answer these doubts.

Originally Posted by smartcat

So perhaps until G-NCAP tests the airbag/ABS variant of the Scorpio, we should go for "Innocent until proven Guilty" school of thought?

At this point, their base variant has been tested and they have been found guilty.

PS: Not picking on Mahindra specifically; others like Maruti, Hyundai etc are equally guilty.

[lurker]

saving grace here for Goenka is that so far no Indian car 'global NCAP' has tested in India so far has got any stars. All are in same boat only.

correct me if I am wrong !

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by lurker

saving grace here for Goenka is that so far no Indian car 'global NCAP' has tested in India so far has got any stars. All are in same boat only.

correct me if I am wrong !

Well, I was smugly thinking that my Polo got three stars. Hope I'm not wrong!

[lurker]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Well, I was smugly thinking that my Polo got three stars. Hope I'm not wrong!

Polo of that particular year with great difficulty got a 3 star, later on we do not know if their manufacturing omitted those safety features again, due to reasons of profit. yes, they still have 2 airbags even on base model but we do not know what is happening under the skin.