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Old 17th May 2016, 21:45   #121
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by volkman10 View Post
As expected automakers react to the Global NCAP tests,

Spokesperson from Mahindra,

Lol, at Mahindra's claim.

That car just crumples like tin foil. What I cannot understand is the huge difference in structural rigidity between the airbag pickup version and the basic one sold in India.

Fitting an airbag into the Indian version might be even more dangerous as the aibrbag might end up imploding inside the drivers mouth.

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Old 17th May 2016, 22:01   #122
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Originally Posted by RAINMAKER View Post
Mahindra - as much as we adore them, we have to loathe them..

9 years back I posted this.
The Scorpio pickup scored a decent four stars in the Australian market.

But that makes it only worse as it clearly shows they comprised just for India.

Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
XUV5OO had received a 4* rating in ANCAP, we can expect it to perform similarly in G-NCAP :
Like above case of Scorpio pickup, how do we trust unless our version is tested?
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:03   #123
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

In essence, the stupid official reactions by manufacturers are on expected lines, and happen to be almost hilarious carbon copies of each other:

At __________ , we are fully committed to the safety of our customers, and all our products are engineered to meet and actually exceed the current Indian safety regulations (which are a joke, by the way).

As a long-established automaker of repute, we will continue to take safety seriously and do all that is necessary to meet and exceed whatever future safety regulations are put in place (while continuing our secret lobbying efforts against such regulations - either to derail them or delay them or water them down or seek exemptions for older vehicles).

We assure our esteemed customers that they are always safe while travelling in any of our vehicles (as long as they aren't involved in a crash even at moderate speeds).

We reiterate that our company's commitment to safety is absolute and unquestionable (as you will soon find out from our paid media stooges who will question the very validity & utility of stupid, meaningless NCAP norms that just aren't applicable to the unique conditions in India) and this is applicable to all our products without exception (even when they turn into coffins-on-wheels).
Just remove the portions in parentheses (what was left unsaid) from the above quote, and what remains (what was said) happens to be the stock-in-trade of the typical corporate PR professional.

Last edited by RSR : 17th May 2016 at 22:13.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:11   #124
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

These results are a wake-up call for all Indian mfrs, in more ways than one. First off the bat is the global perception of Indian manufacturing - dismal to begin with and now certain to nose-dive.

And all Modiji's "Make in India" refrains are not going to change that perception soon. Then comes the perception of the domestic "enlightened ones" - us, that is, and subscribers to the other domestic auto forums. We will rave and rant for a while of course. And I, for one, am swallowing the bitter pill even as I write. That my beloved Scorpio - or rather its latest, "much improved" avatar - should face this kind of public ignominy is depressing to say the least. And M&M should face the most heat, since it is they who have enjoyed the complacent status of being the leader among the domestic SUV brigade. And finally, these results may have - and I say "may" advisedly - an impact on future sales of these mfrs. Though I'm not too hopeful of even this rap on the knuckles for the guilty.

As someone said earlier in the thread (and also from the collective response of the mfrs who happily passed the buck to the Indian govt's slack standards, forgetting for the moment their export ambitions, in the face of this collective heat!), they will just continue laughing all the way to the bank. But in the long run, yes, these results will certainly have a salutary effect - on the mfrs, the buyers and hopefully, our govt's somnolence.

Last edited by Gannu_1 : 17th May 2016 at 23:05. Reason: Fixed formatting.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:24   #125
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I just found a two year old video of ASEAN NCAP test of Vista. Looking at it, the structure appears to be fairing pretty well.

Assuming that Zest / Bolt are more or less Vista facelift, can they be termed safe enough? Being a Zest owner, it would indeed give some confidence in case of any mishap.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:28   #126
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Not a single car scoring even a one star rating is sad. Look at how they have fared at test speeds, which are nearly half of what most people drive at in India. If at these speeds the occupants are not able to survive then just imagine guys what would happen when we are all shamelessly doing 120 kms/hr on our highways in these very same cars. I know people who think that if you have ABS and Airbags, you can go faster because they will save you in case of a crash, I am going to make them read this thread so that they can see these results of cars even after having Airbags.

Worst thing is that everyone talks about these ratings when they come out, after some time it is just the bloody stupid things like touchscreen HU or push-start button that matters. The Renault Kwid was selected COTY by Team-Bhpians themselves right ? Let's be honest here guys, how many of you'll actually voted keeping safety as a criteria. Everyone was happy as it was the most VFM car, with first in class features and SUVish looks etc.

I am really pissed today because we indians are being taken for granted by these manufacturers, we end up paying sometimes more than what other nations are paying for the same car, still safety is not a priority in India.

Last edited by OSH : 17th May 2016 at 22:30.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:30   #127
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

These videos are like warning signs on Cigarette packs. However horrifying the photo is, people will still want to buy them.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:34   #128
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Mr.Khattars and Mr.Dhavans arguments does not hold water..

Instead of addressing the core issue of comprise made by Car manufacturers in India on the Safety front, They are attacking the credibility and motive of the testing organization,

Maruti of all manufacturers, being a leader of the industry for decades should have been far more proactive on the safety of their customers, Other manufacturers would have followed suite, regulation or not..

Its a pathetic and basically callous attitude of the Manufacturer's and disdain of car buying public towards their own and others safety, that, many of the popular and well sold car's, don't score even 1 Star.
Manufacturer's just cannot abdicate their responsibility to provide products with certain basic safety norms.

As usual, Government's are busy with Scams or just sleeping,
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:37   #129
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by landcruiser123 View Post
If that's the case, why don't they ship an Scorpio S10 for a test immediately? (VW did that after the test on the base version of the Polo. The Polo with the airbags did reasonably well.)

The structure of the scorpio is unstable. Airbags are going to be of little help.
Tests are typically always done on the base variant of a model. VW did not ship a version of the Polo with Airbags, they made airbags standard across the range and then asked NCAP to re-test. Since the Polo was structurally sound, addition of the Airbags gave it the 4 star rating.

In this case, looks like the structure is unstable. So the rating is not going to change with airbags.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:43   #130
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

I was actually prepared for such results. However, I expected a wider range of cars to be tested. And also some C segment title holders.

Auto manufacturers will never give us safer cars, esp in the entry level because of the price wars where every manufacturer is trying to undercut others pricing even by a few hundred or thousand rupees.

And we should Remember, even in the developed nations, manufacturers are selling safer cars only because of the underlying law which keeps them from selling unsafe vehicle. They are selling it by force; not by choice or any self regulation.

I hope Govt. takes a lead and take the manufacturers to the task.

Last edited by saket77 : 17th May 2016 at 22:48. Reason: Typo
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:47   #131
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Damage mitigation in crashes is classified into two parts: primary and secondary.

Primary mitigation is mostly structural. This is where crumple zones, anti-intrusion bars, safety cells (Volvo is toying with a rail like system - very interesting if you want to look it up), and collapsible steering columns come in. All these systems are designed to dissipate crash energy around the passenger compartment (safety cell).

Secondary mitigation is more about dissipation of energy inside the safety cell. Seat belts, airbags, child seats, etc are all about trying to minimize the effect of the energy that is not taken care of by primary mitigation. A crucial point to note is that secondary mitigation only works when primary mitigation is solid. For example, a seat belt will hold you in place, but if the A pillar shatters and the roof collapses on you, then you're screwed anyway. If a car is designed without a proper crumple zone, the passenger compartment is involved heavily in dissipation of the crash energy. This means seats will move around more and the overall structural rigidity of the shell is compromised, which leads to the likelihood that passengers will be out of position for secondary mitigation systems to be of any use. If your entire seat is forced to move towards the dashboard/steering wheel as the airbag deploys, you will be crushed. I've seen airbags work and they are insanely powerful and dangerous if you're out of position.

On YouTube, look at the difference between a 5* and 0* car crash. In particular, look at the position of the front row occupants. You'll notice that their relative position to the dashboard, steering and pedals remains stable, which maximizes the effect of their seat belts and airbags.

Indian car companies have been touting their safety and security systems by offering ABS and airbags. While abs is an active collision avoidance system (which is excellent and should be standard on every single car sold), airbags are secondary damage mitigation devices, and as such quite useless in crashes over 30-40kph. These are easy systems to install and the cost can be directly borne by the consumer. So they just market the heck out of it and hope we take the bait and laud them for their focus on safety.

The NCAP tests have shown just how negligent they have been in actually designing safe cars. I hope this awakens people to the message that slapping some airbags on a badly designed car doesn't make it any safer. You can dress up a turd any way you want, but at the end of the day, it still stinks.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:49   #132
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj View Post
Tests are typically always done on the base variant of a model.
Agreed. Read on.

VW did not ship a version of the Polo with Airbags, they made airbags standard across the range and then asked NCAP to re-test.
They did. What VW did:

1. Withdrew the Trendline variant
2. Requested GNCAP to test the next variant which had 2 airbags
3. Made 2 airbags standard for all variants and started selling the trendline again

Here's the source:
Coinciding with the Global NCAP tests, Volkswagen has decided to withdraw the non-airbag version of the Polo from sale in India. Because of this, Global NCAP agreed to a request from VW to assess a version of the Polo that has two airbags fitted as standard as from now. Other manufacturers had the same opportunity. The protection proved much better and this airbag-equipped model received a four-star rating for adult occupant protection. Consumers are encouraged to check which version of the Polo they buy.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:54   #133
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Feeling so frustrated, knowing the fact that why we Indian's pay less value for safety aspects on a car.
This will never be discussed seriously in any mass media in this country. And government will never be in a hurry to incorporate the better safety norms and regulations.
I wish the forums like ours and some other genuine responsible media persons take up this issue and start a campaign and try to bring the attention of entire country.
Why should we tolerate this double standards by OEMs?? This is truly appalling!!
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:55   #134
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

The way the Kwid crumpled is scary. A car designed with pure mileage in mind. Such an unsafe car should not be allowed to be produced. Like I have said in another thread, this extreme fixation with mileage has led to lots of unsafe cars being sold and bought in our country. We should ban discussion on mileage figures on Team Bhp.
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Old 17th May 2016, 22:55   #135
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Default Re: More Indian cars face Global NCAP crash tests. Edit: ZERO for all

While we are discussing on airbags and structural integrity, I am alive today because of safe cars.

Take a look - this happened in 2010 - I was driving the blue corolla and had rear ended the volvo s80 at about 25-30 mph (40-50 kmph) out of a traffic light.

Zero injuries to anyone. Corolla - totalled !

Please buy safe cars - a request to all.

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Last edited by blackasta : 17th May 2016 at 22:57.
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