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Old 12th November 2020, 11:18   #286
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Default Kia Seltos Indian vs US ; Kerb Weight differences

Here is a possible clue why the Indian Seltos body structure was termed unstable in the GNCAP tests:

The US version 2021 Seltos kerb weight is specified in the region of around 2948- 3100 lbs (1337 -1406 kg) for a couple of variants.

https://www.kiamedia.com/us/en/model...specifications

The Indian Seltos kerb weight has not been clearly specified by Kia. However, the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) has been given in the range of about 1670 - 1700 kg (3681- 3747 lbs) for a couple of variants.

Assume a payload of at least 500 kg, the Kerb Weight of the Indian Seltos may be in the region of around 1200 kg (2645 lbs).

So, prima facie we appear to have a fairly large gap in the kerb weights between the US and Indian Seltos versions of at least a 100+ kg, with the Indian variant being lighter. Any bets as to where the weight savings have been effected? It definitely is NOT the touchscreen tablet or the sunroof!

It obviously appears that prioritising bling over basics is the norm for Kia, to cater to Indian customers priorities. For example, I remember the diesel Seltos did not offer Brake Assist in any of its variants (which my eight year old diesel truck already had). Obviously that large touchscreen tablet and sunroof takes priority over such mundane things like Brake Assist.

Many members have already pointed out our (TBHP) apparent bias in official reviews towards the Koreans. Some of the specific terms have already been pointed out by members - these need not bear repetition. However, this is a time for the Mods who have been reviewing the Korean vehicles and putting across subjective assessments of build quality in breathless, adulatory superlatives - to kindly pause, ponder and re-focus appropriately.

Last edited by Rigid Rotor : 12th November 2020 at 11:27.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:19   #287
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

In my recent pursuit to finalise a small automatic hatch my main contenders were Grand i10 Nios and Wagon R. My decision was leaning towards Wagon R but I always had this nagging feeling that I might be compromising on safety as Nios "feels" better built. Thanks to this report my decision becomes easy.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:22   #288
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowflyer23 View Post
But can somebody help me get the contact details of GNCAP headquarters so I can send an email requesting them to test the Indian spec EcoSport and the Tata Harrier or am I just being stupid and it's not possible at all?
You can try contacting them on Social media but they generally seem to test only cars that are sold widely in India. Not sure why they never tested the Ecosport though.

Kia Seltos was probably tested because an aspiring middle class in India is now lapping up these new cars in record numbers and you also have the added advantage of being able to guess the new Creta safety score.

I don't think TATA Harrier qualifies those criteria yet. But it's dissapointing to see TATA not send one to GNCAP like they did with the Altroz.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:26   #289
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

I am feeling cheated. I was expecting at least 4 stars for the Seltos. The less said about the child safety, the better. I got delivery of Seltos GTX plus a week ago. If this crash test result was out at least two weeks earlier, I would have bought Jeep Compass. Choices are limited if you are looking for diesel automatics. Only Hyundai/Kia cars, Harrier and Compass are available as proper diesel automatics below 30 lakhs. Harrier is too big to use a daily driver. The only remaining option is Jeep Compass.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:28   #290
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by chiefpk View Post
Absolutely pathetic performance by the Korean manufacturers. S-presso doing zero stars was obvious but it's Hyundai that has come with an all new surprise. Just shows the substandard and fake details are given by Hyundai on the aspect of safety. A great setback to all the Hyundai/Kia fanboys out there who considered their cars to be safe.

The Venue is most probably a 2 star, the i20 also a mere 2 star and we know the Creta now. This is really disappointing. I knew the fact that when a car is not crash tested it cannot be deemed safe but my past experiences and people's feedback somehow always put up a question mark regarding the safety aspect of Hyundai's. I am so glad that we opted for a Tata and not a Hyundai.

Kudos to Tata and Mahindra for providing us such safe and excellent packaged cars.

A sincere request to our mods:- Mention the safety rating in the official reviews of the cars and not how the car is built. For ex- In the review of Grand i10 Nios it is stated that the car has precise build. It should be changed to what the crash tests show.
Can't agree more with you. I think the reviews should clearly mention that this car is not crash tested as a disclaimer. I still wonder how some reviewers mention that the car looks solidly built just by entering into it. Indian car makers should hopefully do well now.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:33   #291
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

When Kia was being introduced in our country around 2017, a majority of Indians did not know about the brand. They saw articles like this -
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.car...rs-1686535/amp and thought they were in for a treat. Oh boy, were they wrong! Kias and Hyundais aren't exactly known for their quality across the world. They're known to be somewhat reliable, have shoddy quality, and are available for cheap. The quality of driving these cars provided was nothing to write home about. Only in our country are they glorified to be what they are now and given all the paparazzi treatment.

(The same goes for almost every other brand, including VW, but consider just this specific case study here and the fact that the Korean brands are on the lower rungs of the ladder compared to the others anyway. Not going to start about Maruti Suzuki).

Last edited by TheHelix0202 : 12th November 2020 at 11:36.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:39   #292
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

People bash TATA for not providing bling like internet inside, connected car tech, purifier, panoramic sunroof. Most of the people don't have consideration for the safety of cars, which is most important when you are on the road. People's expectation is TATA should provide all bling and super safe cars with lowest price in the market.

Mods, like we have a statement 'Tata's after-sales service quality is a hit or miss' in Cons of our reviews, please add a statement like 'TATAs cars are expected to be safer' in the Pros.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:48   #293
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Typical of Maruti to come out and justify that their cars meet 'government regulations' and are 'safe enough'. The part I don't understand is them saying the Indian tests are identical to the European tests .

The proposed Bharat NCAP (which was supposed to be effective in 2017 but is still to see the light of day) proposes to crash test vehicles at 56kmph while the world tests at 64kmph, as is done even in the GNCAP tests. Additionally the EU NCAP is way more advanced with accident avoidance technologies like AEB now mandatory to achieve a 5 star rating.

Enough has been said about Hyundai & Kia and like everyone else I too was surprised with the scores. Both the i10 & Seltos are built on brand new platforms and it is now clear that all the bling features was subsidized by a weak structure. It is truly sad to see a Datsun Redigo & Kwid with a higher score (not star rating) than the Seltos ! Says a lot about the company's ethics.

I expect Hyundai India / Kia to say nothing as has been the case for all issues. More money will be put into the marketing budget to fill ad space in all publications who will then print articles / make videos justifying how the cars are safe enough as per Indian regulations and continue to market the features. This will work on 90% of the public and business goes on as usual !

EDIT: Autopunditz has just put out a table with the top 10 safest cars tested by GNCAP along with the scores - LINK
Name:  SafestCarsinIndia.jpg
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Last edited by fiat_tarun : 12th November 2020 at 12:03.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:48   #294
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

A lot of bashing is happening towards Seltos and honestly that car is not that bad from safely point of view. Atleast I haven't come across a single real life instance which raised suspicion towards safety worthiness. Right now all the owners and future ones feel like they made a wrong decision because of just one test done in controlled circumstances. Chill guys, the car as as safe as the driver.

Now all of the sudden comparisons have been drawn with Tata, Mahindra with respect to build quality, honesty etc. While I agree that these cars have been built good, it's not the only criteria to define the fate of a car. In terms of quality, drive train, finesse and above all engineering they are nowhere near Hyundai/Kia, Suzuki/Maruti, Toyota, VW etc. Here is a video of an owner who shows the real issues with Nexon. Again I am not saying Nexon is a bad product, but every product has it's pluses and minuses. What we buy is a package.

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Old 12th November 2020, 11:50   #295
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
When Nexon scored 4 stars the first time and also when zest scored 0 stars(only because of lack of airbags, its body shell was rated stable), Tata motors took it upon themselves and improved their cars by improving the structure and making air bags standard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
1. Zest : 0(stable body shell, but 0 airbags) to 4 star(adde 2 airbags as standard).
Please note that Zest has an UNSTABLE body shell. Attaching image for reference.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:51   #296
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

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Originally Posted by Aaron:) View Post
I might be wrong, but there’s surely a bit of bias here. Which is completely out of line with what Team BHP stands for.
I too feel the same. This thread has run 20 pages now but only I think Crazydriver is only moderator who commented on this thread. GTO, whose comment you'd definitely see on first page of every new automotive thread, is yet to comment on this thread.

I was texting with one of my friend from automotive industry (non Kia / Hyundai /Maruti) and he still tried to justify the poor rating to complying with all the government regulations, even for 20L Seltos.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:51   #297
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowflyer23 View Post
But can somebody help me get the contact details of GNCAP headquarters so I can send an email requesting them to test the Indian spec EcoSport and the Tata Harrier or am I just being stupid and it's not possible at all?
I had tried reaching out to them on Facebook messenger around a month back, but got no response. I had asked them the timeline of this year's results which came out yesterday.
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:51   #298
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Default Re: Kia Seltos Indian vs US ; Kerb Weight differences

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Originally Posted by Rigid Rotor View Post
Many members have already pointed out our (TBHP) apparent bias in official reviews towards the Koreans. Some of the specific terms have already been pointed out by members - these need not bear repetition. However, this is a time for the Mods who have been reviewing the Korean vehicles and putting across subjective assessments of build quality in breathless, adulatory superlatives - to kindly pause, ponder and re-focus appropriately.
Spot on. You said it. We keep on getting negative comments about so called Bad Tata service. I don't know how many years these are going to continue, because there are no scores to quote on this aspect. At least in my opinion, not much highlight is given shoddy structural integrity of MSIL, Hyundai products on team-bhp. I hope we have Team-bhp as impartial platform and a place where people give enough importance to safety. Not to advertise any particular manufacturer but to create awareness in car buyers so that the usual suspects up their ante and provide us with safer cars. Too much to ask for?
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Old 12th November 2020, 11:59   #299
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Quote:
Originally Posted by JithinR View Post

I don't think TATA Harrier qualifies those criteria yet. But it's dissapointing to see TATA not send one to GNCAP like they did with the Altroz.
I think ( mere speculation ) Tata knows that it will get somewhere around 3-4 stars which makes it below Nexon and Altroz in safety rating and will affect their narrative of safer cars while their flagship itself is less than 5 stars
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Old 12th November 2020, 12:00   #300
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Default Re: Global NCAP tests Kia Seltos, i10 Nios and S-Presso. All three perform badly

Was not Surprised about the Results of S-Presso. But yeah, I expected the Seltos to be a solid car. I really wonder how much margin is going to be lost by the manufacturers by making the car more safe. I mean the Nexon which sells just in a few markets compared to a global product like Seltos can afford to be safe. Why not the Seltos which sells a whole lot more ?
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