[pdma]

Some thoughts from my side after some extensive research before I bought the car, it really helps if we can determine VFM based on some facts before we plonk in our hard earned money. The Linea has many factors which should be considered ( rather ignored by most of us). The Italians do know about 'space management', agreed that the Linea is deficient in rear head and legroom but really only if one is over six feet tall. The styling of the Linea (esp the bubble like curvaceous roofline and the typical Italian-car strong 'nose/snout') has been traded-off against a bit of head and legroom. It of course has a huge boot that actually is because of the hydraulic bootlid supports/hinges, the 500 litres it claims to be, unlike all of the competition which have big intrusive mechanical hinges that result is effective bootspace being much lower than claimed, 'paper', boot capacity. Trust me the under thigh support is far superior than many cars in the segment (Linea comfortably beats even the scala/sunny) which have seriously compromised on this aspect to showcase that leg room to lure customers. Most manufacturers are adapting to practices similar to thinner seats, smaller fuel tanks (so that seats can be pushed a little backwards to gain a few mm on legroom), thinner door pads, etc.,. to create space.
I have put up a detailed comprehensive comparison between Honda City and The Linea before I chose the later after I evaluated the VFM factor on paper, in person, by calculations related to finances and of course personal preferences. Kindly check the last 2 pages in the thread below for the comparison on features and price factor including service and resale value returns.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/showthread.php?t=160950

Cheers,
pdma.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Autocar does another comparison run, this time with 8 cars. Ciaz comes in first, Skoda Rapid second thank to VFM, Honda City third and Hyundai Verna fourth.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUQHvOp-uxU

[FINTAIL]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Autocar does another comparison run, this time with 8 cars. Ciaz comes in first, Skoda Rapid second thank to VFM, Honda City third and Hyundai Verna fourth.

Let me shoot a question to you [Arnab Mode ] :

In 2012, you bought a Punto 90HP. Typical Head vs Heart decision. Okay.

Would you do the same now? Or rather buy a Polo GT?

Okay- Or let's just say Punto vs any Polo compareable trim. What would you take- and why?

What does the VW offer me- apart from the TDi?

I find the Polo to be an excellent package. Looks good. Build is excellent- and honestly, that torque IS needed.

Bring the Punto into question- Ah. Looks good. Everything is great- BUT the power bit.

I'm a bit confused. My question is the usual Polo vs Punto one. The German, vs the Italian. Or Hitler or Mussolini, if you will.
____________________________________

O Punto T-Jet, I await thee!

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by FINTAIL

Would you do the same now? Or rather buy a Polo GT?

Okay- Or let's just say Punto vs any Polo compareable trim. What would you take- and why?

I find the Polo to be an excellent package. Looks good. Build is excellent- and honestly, that torque IS needed.

Bring the Punto into question- Ah. Looks good. Everything is great- BUT the power bit.

I'm a bit confused. My question is the usual Polo vs Punto one. The German, vs the Italian. Or Hitler or Mussolini, if you will.
____________________________________

O Punto T-Jet, I await thee!

If I can answer,

I'll pick the Polo TDi if compared with Punto for the sole reason of low power output (read power to weight ratio).

IMO the 90HP engine in the Fiat is troublesome too setting the reports on TeamBHP.

Punto when seen singly is a great vehicle, but for the engine and ASC.

[khoj]

What's wrong with the Fiat after sales service or is your grouse against a specific centre over a specific issue?

Discounting the turbo lag that boy racers find missing in the 90 bhp engine what else is wrong with it?

Originally Posted by a4anurag

IMO the 90HP engine in the Fiat is troublesome too setting the reports on TeamBHP.

Punto when seen singly is a great vehicle, but for the engine and ASC.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by khoj

What's wrong with the Fiat after sales service or is your grouse against a specific centre over a specific issue?

Discounting the turbo lag that boy racers find missing in the 90 bhp engine what else is wrong with it?

Whole sales experience when I went a month back for actually booking the Punto.

Dealers attitude + Sales Manager whom I met weren't putting me in the comfortable zone hence went ahead and booked a Polo TDi HL (Grey).

Boy racers - lol!

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by FINTAIL

O Punto T-Jet, I await thee! [/i]

If this question was for Punto 90hp over the earlier 1.6 GT TDi- I would have picked the GT for sure. I'm not really sure about the 1.5 GT since I haven't driven it properly. However the new 1.5 90hp TDi test drive didn't impress me thanks to the tune being a bit too linear for my taste. Hopefully the GT is better here. Popular opinion says it's not as punchy as the old 1.6. Anyways, I'm almost sure the GT will win my heart more than the Punto 90 this time around. Red.

If the TJet comes into the picture (and petrol bills won't hurt) then the Punto TJet all the way. It's one thing to have a punchy diesel. Totally different to have the punch of a diesel, and the refinement and drive ability of a petrol together in one package.

[Cartman]

Originally Posted by FINTAIL

I'm a bit confused. My question is the usual Polo vs Punto one. The German, vs the Italian. Or Hitler or Mussolini, if you will.

Let me answer this. My pick - Polo.

I'm a sucker for cars with clean lines. I believe these cars age beautifully and won't look out of place even a decade down the line. Getting a snazzy looking car is like dating a super-model - she's extremely good looking, right upto the point where age starts getting better of her. This makes the Polo different from the Elite i20 and the Punto. Nothing quirky, nothing snazzy, nothing over the top. Just gets the work done. Much like a German butler.

The Punto on the other hand is your Italian mistress. Will pull wear her Dolce & Gabbana frock and prance like a diva; ask her to wear a salwar and sprint - and she might break a sweat. If you can handle the mistress' tantrums - go for it. Mussolini will be proud!

Everyone awaits the T-Jet - I'd still have a TSi over it.


Cheers!
Cartman

[Blue Bird]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Autocar does another comparison run, this time with 8 cars. Ciaz comes in first, Skoda Rapid second thank to VFM, Honda City third and Hyundai Verna fourth.

I actually found the facelift verna more appealing with cleaner lines, anyways three out of the top four cars shows us the actual turn the Indan car market has taken(or maybe it always has been this way). Rather than going against the tide I think I will just accept the fact, moreover I was quite surprised that the Ciaz and City have good ride quality compared to the competiton.

Feeling sad for Fiesta and Linea but I guess thats the way it is.

Originally Posted by FINTAIL

Okay- Or let's just say Punto vs any Polo compareable trim. What would you take- and why? ...

O Punto T-Jet, I await thee! [/i]

I think right now its just the GT twins that we have closest to a hot hatch under ten lakhs. The punto 90hp is good , infact I drove the new fine tuned Avventura and it feels real solid but the GT is better.

However there is something in the Fiat cars that keeps pulling me towards it, its like every time i think of picking up something else and my heart skips a beat and if its the need of the hour I will go pick up a Linea Tjet as it will cost me the same as a GT else wait for the gorgeous Punto Tjet, fully loaded with 135 bhp under the hood and redline the entire town

[petrolhead_neel]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Congratulations Neel on what is certainly one of the last true driving machines out there (balanced chassis, good steering, normally aspirated petrol lump). Nice colour too

Cheers!

Here is a teaser pic:


NOTE: Mods, please delete this post if it is irrelevant to this thread.

Thanks,
Neel

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by FINTAIL

I'm a bit confused. My question is the usual Polo vs Punto one. The German, vs the Italian. Or Hitler or Mussolini, if you will.

Hey FINTAIL, I am bit late to this post, but would still like to share my personal opinion:

- Between the Pre-facelift Punto 90 HP and the current Polo 1.5 TDi, I would still pick up the Punto, exclusively for the the looks. I really love the clean & timeless looks of the Polo, but Punto is simply too gorgeous to think about eternity.

- Between the 1.5 GT and EVO 90 HP, the GT smokes the latter in every single category. There is simply no comparison here, except ofcourse the Price.

- When it comes to ergonomics, Polo is leagues ahead of Punto. My point is, one must get used to Punto, while Polo quite literally molds around the driver.

- If EVO T-jet does happen, GT twins will have a direct competition. However, I still feel that only a true petrol head would understand the magic of T-jet Engine on a hatch. Common people cannot associate Fiat with a Premium brand as much as the VW logo commands.


Now coming back to the Thread Topic, I really feel that in the current market, the only Sedan that really would make me sign a 1Million Rupee Check is Honda City I-Dtec. Not sure how tune friendly this Earth-dream engine is, but there is nothing else that is a-miss on this gorgeous car.
I just hate the way Ciaz looks, Verna has lost the charm post facelift and neither Rapid nor Vento feel special.

[trinity0114]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Autocar does another comparison run, this time with 8 cars. Ciaz comes in first, Skoda Rapid second thank to VFM, Honda City third and Hyundai Verna fourth.

This has to be the worst comparison ever! They basically included the other 4 cars just for namesake & eliminated them based on their own whims & fancies. I mean eliminating a car just because of resale value(Fiesta) or poor headroom at the rear(Linea) is atrocious. I have a Verna & have been inside a Linea & I can vouch that the Linea's backseat is much more comfortable. Verna has more legroom but the seat is positioned so low & there is no under thigh support that its a nightmare to be there while Linea has the better under thigh support as well as the overall placement of the seat, so as far as comfort goes only space dosent matter. After seeing such videos all I can think is these are properly paid reviews & the people reviewing these cars either have no idea about automobiles or they are just acting based upon the script

[PrasannaDhana]

City>Ciaz>Verna>Rapid>Vento>Linea>Fiesta

This imo is how they fare at resale. Resale is not an issue for someone that retains a car for a decade. But if you frequently change your rides, it does influence.

I have sold Marutis and Tata's after using them for 7 years & a couple of years respectively. Maruti depreciated by a meagre 30% in 7 years whereas the Tata depreciated by 40% in 2 years. That is when it hurts owning a Tata. I Still own 2 Tata's and right now facing the depreciation disaster when I spoke to Maruti guys for exchange of Sumo Gold with the Ciaz.

Linea and Fiesta should see better numbers, but people do fear terrible resale. That is the primary reason for them not seeing the sales numbers they deserve.

I will be a peaceful customer to live with a city / ciaz, and after 5 years when I wish to upgrade, the resale will not disappoint me. Plus reliable products coupled with excellent ASS all over the country.

[pdma]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

City>Ciaz>Verna>Rapid>Vento>Linea>Fiesta

This imo is how they fare at resale. Resale is not an issue for someone that retains a car for a decade. But if you frequently change your rides, it does influence.

Dear Prasanna,

I personally think resale value is not calculated appropriately by most of the customers and hence the actual calculation varies. For eg, A Honda City iDTEC Vx is costing close to 14.5 L OTR (Hyderabad) and this car is sold after say 3 years I guess it would fetch around 8L- 9L so that is close to 40% depreciation. Similarly take a Linea where the top spec is around 12L OTR and say after 3 years one can sell it for around 6.5 L the depreciation is around 45%, however what about the interest calculation for 3 years towards the 2.5 L upfront payment made for the Honda.
Now the service interval costs in 3 years. Honda comes in with 3 free - 1 year service schedule ( 1000km, 5000km & 10,000km), the Linea comes with 3 free - 2 year service schedule (5000km, 15,000km & 30,000km) so ideally if you are changing your car in 3 years you are expected to lay only for 1 service from your pocket so additional cost savings here.
On warranty Honda comes with a 2 year -40k km standard warranty and the Linea comes with a 3 year - 1L km warranty so just in case if someone is planning to switch cars in 2 years don't we have an advantage of 1 year warranty still on the car.
So I would request everyone to think about the above points and then ask ourselves how are we determining resale value.

PS: This is strictly my opinion and I do not intend to start any unpleasant debate .

Cheers,
pdma.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by pdma

Dear Prasanna,

I personally think resale value is not calculated appropriately by most of the customers and hence the actual calculation varies. For eg, A Honda City iDTEC Vx is costing close to 14.5 L OTR (Hyderabad) and this car is sold after say 3 years I guess it would fetch around 8L- 9L so that is close to 40% depreciation. Similarly take a Linea where the top spec is around 12L OTR and say after 3 years one can sell it for around 6.5 L the depreciation is around 45%, however what about the interest calculation for 3 years towards the 2.5 L upfront payment made for the Honda.
Now the service interval costs in 3 years. Honda comes in with 3 free - 1 year service schedule ( 1000km, 5000km & 10,000km), the Linea comes with 3 free - 2 year service schedule (5000km, 15,000km & 30,000km) so ideally if you are changing your car in 3 years you are expected to lay only for 1 service from your pocket so additional cost savings here.
On warranty Honda comes with a 2 year -40k km standard warranty and the Linea comes with a 3 year - 1L km warranty so just in case if someone is planning to switch cars in 2 years don't we have an advantage of 1 year warranty still on the car.
So I would request everyone to think about the above points and then ask ourselves how are we determining resale value.

PS: This is strictly my opinion and I do not intend to start any unpleasant debate .

Cheers,
pdma.

Dear Pdma,

I get your point, but where i would like to differ is that a 3 year old idtec vx still sells for 10.5-11lakh in used car market and talking of ASS, honda does a better job than the fiat people.

Even if the car gets sold for lesser price as you have quoted, there might be a negligible difference when the resale+service+interest on initial investment, it still feels better to be owning the segment topper than owning a great handling, solidly built car from a manufacturer with shady ASS in India.

Cheers
Prasanna