[alpha1]

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

Not exactly shocking but saddening. What about wrestlers like Sushil Kumar, Yogeshwar Dutt etc?

I will answer it this way: if you are competitive sport's person, would you not try stuff that will enhance your performance? Perhaps you are better than 1 billion other humans. But are you better than the one you are competing against?
Perhaps you don't even know what you are taking, your coach does.
He also knows of ways to get you out of trouble and testing.

Originally Posted by fine69

Ask any regular gym-goer and he'd be shocked to hear if there's a guy who relies on just 1 gm of protein per kg of his body weight, because that's the info we've been fed so far.

You may be surprised to know that some bodybuilders juiced to gills and weighing 120 kg shredded make do with <100g of proteins.
Large muscles need plenty of glycogen and water. You need means of getting these inside the muscles. Otherwise you will always looks like average joe.
Proteins is biggest, still continuing, snake oil of the last century.

I think one can never be sure if you don't know someone personally, though they may keep this hidden even if you knew them. However, wrestlers might not be binging on protein supplements considering that they need to watch their weight very carefully to remain under the category that they usually wrestle in.

Even if you know someone personally you will never come to know.
Most people love to boast about their training, grit, hard work.
When people fail to acknowledge the genetics angle, you think they will ever admit performance enhancing drugs?

[fine69]

Originally Posted by alpha1

You may be surprised to know that some bodybuilders juiced to gills and weighing 120 kg shredded make do with <100g of proteins.
Large muscles need plenty of glycogen and water. You need means of getting these inside the muscles. Otherwise you will always looks like average joe.
Proteins is biggest, still continuing, snake oil of the last century.

I'm with you on this

By gym-goers I meant people who rely on bro-science. I still remember the day when I purchased my first 5lbs Dymatize protein box (only purchased 1 so far) around a year back. The sales guy wanted to know my protein intake and when the intake only totalled to some 80 gms (I was 68 then) he told me that unless I take another 50-60 gms through powder there wasn't any use in me working out.

I was like, I'm eating like a monster, my stomach is always full of food and I still have to take this powder twice?!! I did take it for 1.5 months when I did extreme cardio & body resistance exercises (just one scoop a day though) and since I wasn't lifting heavy weights all that happened was that I got leaner, lost about 11 kgs in 1.5 months with my biceps still being skinny as a girl.

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by alpha1

I think Sonu Sood is definitely on tons of Tren (perhaps equal to competitive bodybuilders).

In fact among all I think Sunny Deol's physique looked real. Muscular but also fat in natural distribution.
Akshay Kumar. Lean and therefore not muscular.
Of course both must've dabbled with it, but don't show signs of sustained usage.

Rest of the gang - Hritick, Aamir, Salman, DevGun, models, - all show tell tale signs of steroids - unnatural development of traps and lateral deltoids, compared to the rest of the muscles and the vascularity which can only come when your muscles are hydrated to hilt (steroids) but skin is devoid (diuretics).

It's a norm at gyms in my locality. The members are all either stars/starlets or aspiring/struggling ones.
They take any doses of anything, some of the stuff I haven't even heard of.
There is no talk or even knowledge of PCT.
Usual cycles are all over the place with upto 3-4 'ingredients'.
Tren is a usual suspect yes, but you will be surprised at the amount of Mast and Stan doing rounds, Test apart.

The problem with A-listers like Salman, Hrithik and Aamir is the source. They cannot rely on just anyone to get the juice, and hence have a few quack trainers lounging around always.

Look at SRK, he sprouts muscles at the drop of a hat.

Originally Posted by Piyadassi

In his Delhi Times interview he had said that he keeps protein supplements for emergencies, or something similar.



Not exactly shocking but saddening. What about wrestlers like Sushil Kumar, Yogeshwar Dutt etc?

I will go a bit farther than how alpha1 put it:- everybody in competitive sports takes some form of enhancement drug or the other, period.
And it is the case even in Cricket, why go to contact sports like Wrestling.
Look at the Wrestlers, they're strong but don't look healthy.

Originally Posted by fine69

He did say that, exactly that. This was the second surprising bit about the interview. I mean someone who was strongly despising use of supplements all throughout the interview had very subtly put that he uses them too but only in emergencies

As per him, the protein requirement for his body was 80 gms because he weighs 80 kgs. While there might not be any conclusive study as to what gram of protein is actually needed he defied the general norm of 2 gm protein for every kg of body weight.

Ask any regular gym-goer and he'd be shocked to hear if there's a guy who relies on just 1 gm of protein per kg of his body weight, because that's the info we've been fed so far.

I think one can never be sure if you don't know someone personally, though they may keep this hidden even if you knew them. However, wrestlers might not be binging on protein supplements considering that they need to watch their weight very carefully to remain under the category that they usually wrestle in.

Go with your gut is the mantra, no such thumb rule. People survive on less than reqd easily and even build a great bod.
Many at my gym don't even diet but sprout a bicep sooner than anyone.
Ask them to move some weight and they fall to the floor panting.
Coffee and Steroids is all that goes around here.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Wrestlers also have to undergo frequent drug tests, so they can't really abuse steroids like the bollywood stars.

Tests are all with lead times and most substances can be cleansed from the system.
There are no surprise tests, apart from around contest/competition days, and they are clean then.

Originally Posted by alpha1

I will answer it this way: if you are competitive sport's person, would you not try stuff that will enhance your performance? Perhaps you are better than 1 billion other humans. But are you better than the one you are competing against?
Perhaps you don't even know what you are taking, your coach does.
He also knows of ways to get you out of trouble and testing.

You may be surprised to know that some bodybuilders juiced to gills and weighing 120 kg shredded make do with <100g of proteins.
Large muscles need plenty of glycogen and water. You need means of getting these inside the muscles. Otherwise you will always looks like average joe.
Proteins is biggest, still continuing, snake oil of the last century.
Even if you know someone personally you will never come to know.
Most people love to boast about their training, grit, hard work.
When people fail to acknowledge the genetics angle, you think they will ever admit performance enhancing drugs?

Exactly the thumb rule of competition applies in Bollywood.
Coaches yes, all of them know. The role is played by the Personal Trainers. For e.g. Hrithik trained with Kris Gethin not for the training but for the additional info and substances he could get.

Ditto for John who started training with Kris later.

Even the younger leaner guys like Ranbir Kapoor, Ranveer Singh and Shahid Kapoor have all done cycles. Ranveer Singh more than the rest.

Very few I know have admitted, not because they boasted but they were unsure of whether it will work.

I heard this one guy at my gym explain a bad fever after injecting, saying:- "Once it's injected the body needs to raise temperature to melt it and shuttle it across the system and that's why the fever."

And this guy trains boys for physique competitions in Mumbai.
I guess one can tell if someone is using substances, skin changes, sudden and excessive vascularity, sometimes I have noticed facial features like jaw even changes (maybe that's GH). I have even noticed changes in hands and feet, but not sure what to attribute it to.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by mandheers

It's a norm at gyms in my locality. The members are all either stars/starlets or aspiring/struggling ones.
They take any doses of anything, some of the stuff I haven't even heard of.
There is no talk or even knowledge of PCT.
Usual cycles are all over the place with upto 3-4 'ingredients'.
Tren is a usual suspect yes, but you will be surprised at the amount of Mast and Stan doing rounds, Test apart.

Hmmm, so all these guys are practically dosing similar to a bodybuilder.
(Ah, that's why they have the "coaches"
Boss, you seems to really have insider info!

Do the females of bollywood/modeling world also sometimes indulge in any steroid stuff? I am sure they are into the rest at least.
I know one aspiring female model who was coming to our gym, the instructor put her on a 'program' - had her doing pushups, pullups in no time (almost impossible for a girl unless she was able to do it beforehand 'by birth'). Her voice also changed . Afterwards I came to know that her periods also stopped. But her body was like a glam lingerie model.

The problem with A-listers like Salman, Hrithik and Aamir is the source. They cannot rely on just anyone to get the juice, and hence have a few quack trainers lounging around always.

Look at SRK, he sprouts muscles at the drop of a hat.

I think people love to idolize those who achieve the unachievable.
And no one really cares how it was achieved.

Just check out all the girls and women these days.
They have been bombarded with the unachievable male physiques so much that their expectation levels have changed drastically!

Exactly the thumb rule of competition applies in Bollywood.
Coaches yes, all of them know. The role is played by the Personal Trainers. For e.g. Hrithik trained with Kris Gethin not for the training but for the additional info and substances he could get.

Ditto for John who started training with Kris later.

Even the younger leaner guys like Ranbir Kapoor, Ranveer Singh and Shahid Kapoor have all done cycles. Ranveer Singh more than the rest.

Wow, quite eye opener.
What happens to the side effects?
Or another drug to tide over the consequent side effects ... ad infinitum?

[amitk26]

seeing all this I think it pays to attend a middle class gym where manager sorts attend rather then Body-building oriented one

[fine69]

Originally Posted by amitk26

seeing all this I think it pays to attend a middle class gym where manager sorts attend rather then Body-building oriented one

I'm glad that I had that shoulder injury because of which I started swimming. Who knows, looking at the instant results in the gym I would've gone to, I might've tried something ridiculous as well.

The last few posts are a real eye-opener. I always had this curiousity that why can't I get results so easily when the entire TV world is just oozing cuts and muscles.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by fine69

I'm glad that I had that shoulder injury because of which I started swimming. Who knows, looking at the instant results in the gym I would've gone to, I might've tried something ridiculous as well.

The last few posts are a real eye-opener. I always had this curiousity that why can't I get results so easily when the entire TV world is just oozing cuts and muscles.

Well Fine69 my way of not getting distracted is to look at instructors who excel in cross training.
In the guy to there is a smallish guy about 5' 4'' who never gets tired of doing burpees , squats and push-ups and is a task master. Similarly there is another one who specializes in TRX training and both these guys have no visible bulk.

Most of the steroid driven guys have good muscles to show but they start panting when the workout involves agility and stamina.

[alpha1]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Most of the steroid driven guys have good muscles to show but they start panting when the workout involves agility and stamina.

Even I would start panting when the workout involves stamina, even though I don't take the 'supps'.


To be honest, I am not at all against steroids or any other drugs.
Come to think of it. You get infection, you take antibiotics to fight the bacteria because your body cannot produce enough antibodies effectively.

You get hurt, you take painkillers. You get ailment X, you take drug Y.
Same goes for the iron game.
You want your bloody body to respond, but the body cannot produce enough testosterone. So you take medicinal help.

And as it is, ALL MEDICINES come with side effect.
Yes, even the humble paracetamol destroys the mucus lining of the stomach, thus the HCl and Protease secreted by stomach have a free run trying to digest the very tissues of the stomach!

Imagine what happens over long term !!!

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by alpha1

Hmmm, so all these guys are practically dosing similar to a bodybuilder.
(Ah, that's why they have the "coaches"
Boss, you seems to really have insider info!

Do the females of bollywood/modeling world also sometimes indulge in any steroid stuff? I am sure they are into the rest at least.
I know one aspiring female model who was coming to our gym, the instructor put her on a 'program' - had her doing pushups, pullups in no time (almost impossible for a girl unless she was able to do it beforehand 'by birth'). Her voice also changed . Afterwards I came to know that her periods also stopped. But her body was like a glam lingerie model.
I think people love to idolize those who achieve the unachievable.
And no one really cares how it was achieved.

Just check out all the girls and women these days.
They have been bombarded with the unachievable male physiques so much that their expectation levels have changed drastically!
Wow, quite eye opener.
What happens to the side effects?
Or another drug to tide over the consequent side effects ... ad infinitum?

No such insider info at all, guess it's in plain sight and I am plain curious.
None of these steroid junkies; save a couple of them; can even move any respectable weight.
But it is insane how they go from fat to literally 'dick-skinned' (mods plz check discretion) in a few weeks.
Veins popping, full muscle-bellies, marble like skin tone, chiseled facial features.

I understand, it is their profession which is cut-throat enough to demand and they follow through.

Starlets, singers, models, actresses all take something or the other.
This one very well known lady was actually on the phone to confirm dates for her shoot saying:- "I'll be going on steroids and will be fitter by the shoot date."
She's not even mainstream, and appeared in a few multi starrers.

Side effects I'm sure would abound, but these guys can afford to actually tide over them, again I'm sure.
They do it for a living.

Originally Posted by amitk26

seeing all this I think it pays to attend a middle class gym where manager sorts attend rather then Body-building oriented one

Nothing like that, depends on who you ask and what. I have seen stuff being passed around at Vyayamshalas.

Originally Posted by fine69

I'm glad that I had that shoulder injury because of which I started swimming. Who knows, looking at the instant results in the gym I would've gone to, I might've tried something ridiculous as well.

The last few posts are a real eye-opener. I always had this curiousity that why can't I get results so easily when the entire TV world is just oozing cuts and muscles.

Again, you will only try what you decide to. There are many vegetarians who won't eat non-veg, and some who would still try.
Just an example.

Originally Posted by amitk26

Well Fine69 my way of not getting distracted is to look at instructors who excel in cross training.
In the guy to there is a smallish guy about 5' 4'' who never gets tired of doing burpees , squats and push-ups and is a task master. Similarly there is another one who specializes in TRX training and both these guys have no visible bulk.

Most of the steroid driven guys have good muscles to show but they start panting when the workout involves agility and stamina.

What is this "cross-training" really? Do you even know who is "cross-training" for?
It is for athletes, not for the average gym-goer.
It is to enhance sports performance in athletes, by involving them in sports other than their staple.
Hope you didn't mean "Crossfit", if you did, then have you seen or met the real guys who do Crossfit?
Burpees, Squats, Pushups are bodyweight exercises and anyone can be a taskmaster today.
I have seen Boot Camps run by nutritionists with no exercise understanding.
As for panting, you should see a few more guys who are on steroids then.

See, steroids are only to an end.
It's what your training is like that decides what you will get better at.
Steroids are not bad, they are the last mile and used for successfully treating many skin, degenerative, cognitive and pathological conditions which don't respond to any medication.
It is just that here they are used for anabolic results. Hence the name AAS - Anabolic Androgenic Steroids. (hope I got the sequence right)
A bodybuilder takes, trains for hypertrophy and ends up such.
A sprinter takes, trains for the dash and ends up such.
A powerlifter/strongman takes, lifts all he can and end up such.
Similarly for marathoners, cricketers, footballers etc.

Originally Posted by alpha1

Even I would start panting when the workout involves stamina, even though I don't take the 'supps'.


To be honest, I am not at all against steroids or any other drugs.
Come to think of it. You get infection, you take antibiotics to fight the bacteria because your body cannot produce enough antibodies effectively.

You get hurt, you take painkillers. You get ailment X, you take drug Y.
Same goes for the iron game.
You want your bloody body to respond, but the body cannot produce enough testosterone. So you take medicinal help.

And as it is, ALL MEDICINES come with side effect.
Yes, even the humble paracetamol destroys the mucus lining of the stomach, thus the HCl and Protease secreted by stomach have a free run trying to digest the very tissues of the stomach!

Imagine what happens over long term !!!

Very true, there is no apparent harm in using or trying or makes one bad if they use.
It gets a bad rap is all.

In the West, there are clinics for hormone replacement, after a certain age.
Also covered by Insurance, and Testosterone is very much on the list.
But again, it is administered on an individual assessment and requirement basis.
Not a one-size-fits-all or a trial 'n error quack approach.

[srishiva]

Mostly I think this protein per body weight is utter crap. I dont take even 1 gm per kg of my body weight. I workout hard and am quite muscular (much more than Akshay Kumar but not same as other Heroes). Being Vegetarian, I cant imagine what I have to do to take more than 1gm per kg of body weight.

[Seventhgear]

I not an expert on steriods or stuff.But I have seen enough around me in the last 2 decades of bodybuilding that unless one is in to serious body building ,one shouldnt be into any kind of supplements.One should try to be fitter with a presentable appearance thorough a mix of weight training and stamina building exercises.

The long terms effects of 'powder' are yet to divulged out to the common person considering the fact that its a multimillion dollar industry.The number of bodybuilders and wrestlers who had their life snuffed out in their prime can be searched on the net.And I am talking real professionals who have put their heart in the sport.

Bodybuilding can be taken as a means to be fitter and presentable.But one doesn't need to take supplements for having that ripped look.Sure one would have to put more hours than usual and would have to watch their intake in terms of protein,carbs etc.

Having a great body has to do a lot about genes too and one cannot create an 'artificial' body through supplements.The consequences wont be known now but down the road one will definitely have to pay a big price for all these 'powders'.

I know many won't be agreeing to my opinion but its my concern for the new age gym goers who go for instant results.There is not substitute for real hard work in the gym for a great body.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by mandheers

What is this "cross-training" really? Do you even know who is "cross-training" for?
It is for athletes, not for the average gym-goer.

Probably yes I do know and I suppose all of us here have some basic education so that we can read and understand what it is about even in case we do not know.


And who exactly is average gym goer ? Any urban gym today has mix of people right from obese home-makers to teenage guys wanting to bulk up to
people in late 30s trying to train for full marathon.

To give my personal example few months back I was able to do 10K run and whatever training I did I was unable to go beyond. However today after 6 - 8 months or so I can easily complete half marathon. Cross training to build gluts , hamstrings , lower back and abdominal muscles have helped.
Many people would say that can be done without cross training but earlier a serious long run meant sore muscles and next day of rest for me however now there is no serious impact. I haven't tries full Marathon yet.

Originally Posted by mandheers

Hope you didn't mean "Crossfit", if you did, then have you seen or met the real guys who do Crossfit?
Burpees, Squats, Pushups are bodyweight exercises and anyone can be a taskmaster today.
I have seen Boot Camps run by nutritionists with no exercise understanding.
As for panting, you should see a few more guys who are on steroids then.

See, steroids are only to an end.

Well yes I don't imagine the guys to be there so they are real and not imaginary.
However crossfit is a brand name from a fitness company in US , Similar ones are there from Les Mills and others as well.

Coming back to cross training. Is there any particular reason why bodyweight exercise and suspension exercises with TRX can not be used for cross training ?

Is it necessary that everyone flips tyres and whips ropes to cross train just because it was shown in Mary Kom and Bhag Milkha Bhag

I really don't understand what is the chip on your shoulder but I have no desire whatsoever to see anyone on steroids.

About level of professionals available I believe a gym chain which runs more then 540 clubs across the world and Les Mills programs for many decades should have enough professional trainers.

[ashokrajagopal]

I hadnt updated this thread for a long time -- because I was not working out regularly ( some personal issues -- not laziness). The last few pages were very very interesting.
One rule of thumb I always use to judge people I meet in gym was to notice how long they spent on the parallel bars or pull up bar.
If you are the kind that runs after easy results, and you are the one that is only behind the glossy magazine kind of body, there is absolutely no reason for you to put your time on dips or pull up. Yes, the guys on steroid may be able to do all these, but why would they ?
In all the gyms I have been to, YES ALL OF THEM, I was an odd one out because I spent hours with the pull up bar and parallel bars. And not to mention squats and deadlifts. I cant even start to count the number of times kids in late teens and early twenties come up to me and say "If you spent half the time you spent on legs and these free hand exercises, you would build a body like me. Why dont you try out the dumbell curls". And me, I smile courteously.
In the past, there had been more than a handful of times a couple of guys come up to me and ask what cycle I am on -- not impressed with my physique -- they looked at the hours I spent, the silent long dedicated hours, and wanted to help me because they thought I am doing a cycle wrong.
No thanks, I am fine celebrating my 15th rep in my third set of dips and 106th kg in back squat. I had my last celebration 6 months before, and I am okay with it.

[Samurai]

Recently when I saw the movie "Bang Bang", there is a scene where Hrithik takes off his shirt, to make Katrina drop her jaw to the floor. In fact, most audiences dropped their jaw, I could here "ooh, aah" all around me.

I felt his body looked synthetic, more like he-man doll body than human. There was nothing natural about that. Does he claim to be steroid free too?

[bluevolt]

EGuys I am a newbie to fitness world. I have a lean frame. Neither fat nor thin. Somewhat like Tim Robbins in shawshank redemption But when I see regular gym goers with salman type biceps, I feel I should take plunge into regular gym schedule. Thing is that I am vegeterian, will avoid eggs also(though I have consumed them for a while in the past). I also will never go for any kind of supplements. So how to get that natural protein supply except from milk, dals and soyabeans which I consume anyhow. Eating eggs necessary? They are not banned in my family but i prefer to avoid eating them.

So what's the way out for vegeterian fitness freaks? What basic exercises are recommended for me? I am a tread-mill freak!