[akhil994]

Originally Posted by fine69

Because the label says so? Please get it checked from your nearest lab and you'd be surprised with the result.

No that is not the case, it is a good starting point for those who are just starting with workout since it is more affordable than ON and Dymatize and the likes. Don't want it to become an expensive mistake at the start.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by fine69

Unless you are ready to do a cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes

Cycle off protein? 1st time I am hearing of this. Why would you cycle off a macro component of your diet? Please elaborate for my understanding

I for one love whey protein. I could see results and it also helped keep hunger and sugar cravings at bay. Anyone who has not tried supplements should definitely give it a shot. Just make sure you are buying it from a reliable source. My recommendations for what I consider to be "essentials":

- Whey protein
- Fish oil. Seriously helps with recovery and reduces aches and pains significantly
- A good multivitamin for your micro nutrients
- (Optional) Creatine : preferably post at least a couple of months of regular work out

[pramodkumar]

Originally Posted by mandheers

That's what it is marketed as; a bedtime protein. But in my understanding it is a Milk Protein, why can't it be taken through the day? I take it Post Workout with Whey, and pretty much through the day too at times. Keeps me full longer and I feel stronger on Casein than Whey alone.

Casein is a slow release protein, it should not be taken during daytime. It works best during nights. No protein is directly linked to strength or endurance, for that nothing except good old carbs work. If you take casein during night you can compound the effect. Whey is needed immediately after workout and is needed to replenish your muscles, whey induces an insulin surge, that's why you need to take a banana or an apple along. It's worked fine for me, though I started whey a month back and my results were dramatic.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Cycle off protein? 1st time I am hearing of this. Why would you cycle off a macro component of your diet? Please elaborate for my understanding

Cycle = juice = salt = steroids. There is no micro or macro nutrient cycles, at least I am unaware of such a thing. But cycle is a slang for steroids. It's not a good thing to recommend steroids to someone who is doing this for fitness/aesthetics, unless your body is your only source of revenue I say stay away from cycles. But if competition is the main agenda I recommend not to turn your body into a lab and consult a good trainer whose sole intention is not to make money. I would not like to discuss these things in public but if anyone is thinking in those lines pm me and I can recommend some honest reads. Things that can put a right perspective in your head.

Pramod

[fine69]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Cycle off protein? 1st time I am hearing of this. Why would you cycle off a macro component of your diet? Please elaborate for my understanding

I now understand why you call certain stuff "essentials". If you can't associate the term "cycle" right, then my mate, you are very distant from the reality of bodybuilding.

I've said it before, you aren't going to get that dream body unless you Eat Clen and Tren Hard.

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by fine69

Unless you are ready to do a cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes.

From someone who was shying away from supplements and obsessing over his double-chin, a 'cycle' is a long way out.

Have you tried any to recommend of one, value-for-money?

Originally Posted by fine69

A much better example. And what is there to hide, most of these old actors are on hormone therapy anyways, there's no other way to retain obscene amounts of muscle mass.

Yes, Dr. Life is the proponent of TRT but it has it's adverse effects too. Anything that alters the natural hormonal progression is bound to have it's positive and negative effects, it's what people choose to talk about and glamorize that makes it way around.

The Khans are definitely on gear/cycle whatever one calls it, but imagine even the likes of Anil Kapoor being on hormonal help, and then the picture changes.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Cycle off protein? 1st time I am hearing of this. Why would you cycle off a macro component of your diet? Please elaborate for my understanding

I for one love whey protein. I could see results and it also helped keep hunger and sugar cravings at bay. Anyone who has not tried supplements should definitely give it a shot. Just make sure you are buying it from a reliable source. My recommendations for what I consider to be "essentials":

- Whey protein
- Fish oil. Seriously helps with recovery and reduces aches and pains significantly
- A good multivitamin for your micro nutrients
- (Optional) Creatine : preferably post at least a couple of months of regular work out

He meant to try an AAS/Steroid cycle.

[fine69]

Originally Posted by mandheers

From someone who was shying away from supplements and obsessing over his double-chin, a 'cycle' is a long way out.

Haha And its back actually. I got rid of it early this year but haven't been able to behave myself on the dinner table and in spite of building a decent home gym, I'm not working out the way I should. But I'm squatting and deadlift more than my bodyweight without any supplement and the journey from 20kgs to 70+ was worth the injuries and the sweat.

Originally Posted by mandheers

Have you tried any to recommend of one, value-for-money?

I did, posted about it as well. I'm not asking anybody to not take whey. On the contrary, I'm asking them to spend a little more and actually get the results they always dreamed of

See, I'm not aiming for six-packs with muscle oozing out of my clothes. I think its perfectly alright to tell people not to have similar expectations just because they decide to spend thousands on supplements every month.

[Urban_Nomad]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Cycle = juice = salt = steroids

I understand where you are coming from. But cycle doesn't straight away imply steroids. Most commonly, people discuss both load and "off" cycles for Creatine; and that is not a steroid. On the contrary, it is the most researched body building supplement found to have maximum results; along with solid training of course

Originally Posted by fine69

I now understand why you call certain stuff "essentials". If you can't associate the term "cycle" right, then my mate, you are very distant from the reality of bodybuilding.

Alright. So whats next bud? We need to cycle off chicken?

Still awaiting pointers on why one needs to follow a cycle for simple whey protein (and also, what the reality of bodybuilding is). Is there a difference between the protein you get from poultry vs. whey?

Originally Posted by fine69

I've said it before, you aren't going to get that dream body unless you Eat Clen and Tren Hard.

Totally agree. That's why whey etc are called "supplements"; not "meal replacements". It can be especially beneficial for Indians where food adulteration is rampant. Be it grains, veggies, poultry or meat; nothing has been spared.

Most importantly, different people would react differently to various diets, training regimens etc and supplements are not an exception here. Maybe they don't work well for some. I still recommend a 3 day split for training, follow intermittent fasting and taking supplements. But someone may prefer a 5 day split, think intermittent fasting is absolute hogwash and all supplements are evil.

If someone has not tried supplements; they absolutely must at least once in my opinion. Even the cost factor is seriously overhyped. For example, 5 lbs of Ultimate nutrition Pro star costs around 4500 shipped and has approx. 80 servings. Each serving has 25 gms of protein; which costs a shade over 50 bucks. How much would you need to spend on (say) chicken to get equal amount of protein?

I say again, one must absolutely try it one time before dissing it. If they don't like it, that's a couple of grand (there's a 2.5 lbs pack as well) you wont see again. But one would know for themselves as opposed to relying on opinions of the internets!

Originally Posted by mandheers

He meant to try an AAS/Steroid cycle.

I could be wrong mate, but I think we are discussing supplements only. At least all my queries are pertaining to supplements, particularly whey and the need to "cycle off" of it

[Superleggera]

Originally Posted by amitoj

I've experienced back pain doing everything else but a bench press
Do you arch your lower back when doing a bench press? Do you tighten your core?
Also, since your back ache is primarily in the morning when you wake up, could it be that the time has come to change your mattress?

I don't do both, may be i need to tighten my core.

Changing the mattress was the first thing I did, but there is no difference !

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by pramodkumar

Casein is a slow release protein, it should not be taken during daytime. It works best during nights. No protein is directly linked to strength or endurance, for that nothing except good old carbs work. If you take casein during night you can compound the effect. Whey is needed immediately after workout and is needed to replenish your muscles, whey induces an insulin surge, that's why you need to take a banana or an apple along. It's worked fine for me, though I started whey a month back and my results were dramatic.

Pramod, Protein is the building blocks for muscles. It is what constitutes the cell, and fat is what holds the cellular membranes. Carbs are just fuel for energy. Source of energy alone cannot be linked to strength. You need muscle on your Quads to move weight, and progressively more muscle to move more weight. I tend to rely more on protein in my diet than Carbs, and I don't shy away from either.

When you say you started Whey a month back, how long have you been training? Plz share pictures of the results you saw.

I do not agree that just because Casein is marketed as a bedtime supplement, you need to take it at night. Period. The body needs slow digesting protein throughout the day, without that you are reducing your strength and size potential. Whey to be consumed immediately is also a marketed fallacy. I wrap up my workout, go home, shower and then have a hearty breakfast, and a protein shake.

I know the argument for 'anabolic window' and trust me unless you are taking steroids etc, you are never really as anabolic that you need to chug down Whey within seconds post your workout. And while at that, it's also dicey your body will absorb this fast-acting protein down to it's last 24-30gm scoop. That said, I have used Casein & Blends even pre-workout to try a sustained release of nutrients to keep me going on longer workout sessions, apart from the BCAA I take intra-workout.

Yes, Whey is a bit high in GI, and might cause insulin spike.[/quote]

Originally Posted by fine69

Haha And its back actually. I got rid of it early this year but haven't been able to behave myself on the dinner table and in spite of building a decent home gym, I'm not working out the way I should. But I'm squatting and deadlift more than my bodyweight without any supplement and the journey from 20kgs to 70+ was worth the injuries and the sweat.

I did, posted about it as well. I'm not asking anybody to not take whey. On the contrary, I'm asking them to spend a little more and actually get the results they always dreamed of

See, I'm not aiming for six-packs with muscle oozing out of my clothes. I think its perfectly alright to tell people not to have similar expectations just because they decide to spend thousands on supplements every month.

Missed it I guess. Do point me to the post-link or share details again. What did you try? Pros and Cons experienced? Pics before after? Lifts before after?

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

I understand where you are coming from... need to "cycle off" of it

Yes, 'Cycle' does instantly imply steroid cycle, you went and mistook what fine69 said. Plz dont confuse yourself anymore or it will be hard to explain.

For the record, he said:- "Unless you are ready to do a cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes"

What he meant here was:- "Unless you are ready to do a steroid cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes"

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by mandheers

What he meant here was:- "Unless you are ready to do a steroid cycle avoid wasting your money on whey and its likes"

Are you implying that whey without steroids is not useful

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

Are you implying that that whey without steroids is not useful

If you follow the posts, it was not me who said that. I only quoted to explain.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by mandheers

If you follow the posts, it was not me who said that. I only quoted to explain.

The original post was vague and it was your explanation that stated it explictly. If you do not stand by what you said, it would have been better to let the OP explain himself.

[mandheers]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

The original post was vague and it was your explanation that stated it explictly. If you do not stand by what you said, it would have been better to let the OP explain himself.

You are putting things out of perspective Jaguar. If you didn't understand what was the discussion you could read my post again. It clearly mentions 'HE SAID", not "I SAID".

Here is the post which contained the original reference, and it's not vague:- http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/shifti...ml#post4101123

I understand what would've been better, but since I was addressed by Urban_Nomad, I answered.

Now, if you want to rephrase your question I would be glad to answer it, and stand by it.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by mandheers

Now, if you want to rephrase your question I would be glad to answer it, and stand by it.

My question still remains the same. Why is that whey without steroids is not useful?

[fine69]

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Alright. So whats next bud? We need to cycle off chicken?

You aren't doing that already?!!

Sorry but I don't mean to drag it any further. Of course I meant steroids.

Originally Posted by Urban_Nomad

Totally agree. That's why whey etc are called "supplements"; not "meal replacements". It can be especially beneficial for Indians where food adulteration is rampant. Be it grains, veggies, poultry or meat; nothing has been spared.

You misread my post, let me try again, what I meant was -

Eat Clen
Tren hard
Test your limits
DBOLish your goals
GHet huge
Keep husSLIN
Winny it all
Anavar give up

Originally Posted by mandheers

Missed it I guess. Do point me to the post-link or share details again. What did you try? Pros and Cons experienced? Pics before after? Lifts before after?

It was Dymatize Whey. No Pros no cons, except the money I spent, around 5-6k. No pics taken ever, the only pics I've taken is what I've posted, double chin remember??

See, I'm progressing with weights with regular homemade food and I'm totally content with it. My goal isn't bodybuilding but gaining strength. No offence, but most of the bodybuilders (here and in my local gyms) don't have a body worth drooling to begin with. The ones who do, are usually on juice. Of course there are people with 10-20 years of training backing them up without taking any "other" help but that's like a rare breed.

I ventured into this thinking I'll come out looking like Zyzz but we all know what happened to that guy. I argued enough in my head, here too, but realized that it wasn't going to happen.

Folks get beefy and enjoy carrying 2 TVs in each arm when walking, I'm not one of them. What I enjoyed initially was getting a little broad, shoulders and back. I was curling like crazy but whatever little I've gained on my arms is when I actually trained just 3 days in a week doing just big compound lifts. I don't want to be just another mediocre looking guy curling & lifting like crazy, 6 days a week, eating every 2-3 hours, carrying lunch boxes everywhere I go and worrying about losing muscle the moment I'm out of whey or if I don't hit the gym everyday.

I have complete respect for what people do and its totally their choice to replace every meal with whey or creatine but even if they do it for years at end and still don't have a body worth drooling, well, what can I say.

Ever since I started doing compound lifts I eat paranthas and chocolate or a chocolate shake everyday and life couldn't be any better at this stage. I'm not gaining any more weight just because I'm exhausted by the end of my workout but I've totally avoided it taking over the more important things of my life (including worrying about my double chin )

A lot of people just get lost over this bodybuilding obsession and if that's going to happen then the least they could do is come out looking like Zyzz.

EDIT: @Jaguar - He never said it and neither did I, you misconstrued it.