[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

That is Hornet No.4 right? You will soon have a full squadron

Just wondering why you picked up this 1:144 Scale when the rest of your collection is in 1:72 scale?

Yeah, Hornet No.4. The Tomcat is feeling lonely.

All three 1:72 Hornets were the Carrier Air Wing's Commander Air Group (CAG)'s birds. So when I saw this 1:144 Hornet in CVW-7's CAG's markings Hornet I could not resist and the size did not matter . So now I have four Hornet squadrons represented (VFA-27 "Royal Maces", VFA-147 "Argonauts", VFA-192 "Golden Dragons" & VFA-131 "Wildcats")

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Very interesting addition to your collection and very well detailed also. Where was this one sourced from? I read long back that in this configuration (six rocket launchers) the Mi-17 is the most heavily armed helicopter in the world.

Yeah...I have read that too. In that config, it packs a lot of firepower. But its not the most manoeuvrable gunship. The model reminds of me of the valiant aircrew of Nubra 3, the Indian AF Mi-17 gunship and its crew that was lost to a Stinger during the Kargil war. On their last mission, they flew their Mi-17 in a slightly similar rocket pod configuration (4 X 57 mm rocket pods).

The Hornet & the Mi-17 were sourced from DBJets.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

That Mil Mi-17 looks very interesting. a unique piece what with the digital design camouflage. Lots of Hornets in your bonnet. At 1:72 the chopper must be quite large.

It actually isn't that big. Kept it on a A4 size paper & a 5.2" mobile phone for size comparison. I have 1:55 Apache & Cobra gunships that are comparatively bigger than this Mi-17.


Icing on the cake - Clam shell doors can be opened. It has a detailed cabin inside


It had a a couple of attachments which I had not fixed earlier.
Door is openable and with removable stairs fixed:


Rear view mirrors...never "drive" without them

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

It actually isn't that big. Kept it on a A4 size paper & a 5.2" mobile phone for size comparison. I have 1:55 Apache & Cobra gunships that are comparatively bigger than this Mi-17.

Icing on the cake - Clam shell doors can be opened. It has a detailed cabin inside

It had a a couple of attachments which I had not fixed earlier.
Door is openable and with removable stairs fixed:

Rear view mirrors...never "drive" without them

We have identical tastes in aircraft scale models. A week back I ordered the same chopper from JC wings. Should be arriving soon. The attachments and clam shell make it look very real.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

We have identical tastes in aircraft scale models. A week back I ordered the same chopper from JC wings. Should be arriving soon. The attachments and clam shell make it look very real.

That's great. I am sure you will love it. I look forward to the pics.

The model does not come with a stand. It is available for purchase separately.

Inspite of being a metal model, it is very delicate and fragile. Handle it with
care while taking it out of the box and fitting the attachments, especially the main rotor blades. Keep fevi-kwik ready in case things don't fit.

[skanchan95]

1:72 Iraqi Air Force Mi-17 Hip







The two MI-17s in my fleet:




4435 was found a a wreck at the Baghdad Int'l Airport(formerly Saddam Int'l) by invading US troops in 2003

[skanchan95]

1:100 McDonnell Douglas F-4C-24MC Phantom II
Serial No.: 64-0829 "Scat XXVII"
Air Arm : United States Air Force
Squadron: 433rd Tactical Fighter Squadron, "Satan's Angels", 8th Tactical Fighter Wing "Wolf Pack", Ubon Air Base, Thailand 1967
Flown by : Col. Robin Olds(Pilot) and 1LT Stephen B. Crocker (WSO) -Col Olds flew this aircraft on his last mission of his tour of Vietnam.









Standard Vietnam War F-4 CAP/Fighter Sweep/Escort Loadout - 4 X AIM-7 Sparrows, 4X AIM-9 Sidewiders , 2 X 1400L drop tanks(wings) & 1 X 2300 L drop tank on the centerline station. The F-4C did not have an internal gun.


The Legend:

Robin Olds (July 14, 1922 – June 14, 2007) was a fighter pilot in the U.S. Air Force. Any keen military aviation follower would know about the exploits of Col Robin Olds and other Vietnam War MiG killer Aces like Lt Randy 'Duke' Cunnigham(USN) & 1st Lt. Richard 'Steve' Ritchie(USAF).

Col Olds was a "triple ace", with a combined total of 16 victories in World War II and the Vietnam War. He retired in 1973 as a brigadier general.Cold olds was a Triple Ace. He scored 12 air-to-air kills fighting against the Luftwaffe in World War II, then two decades later, scored another four air-to-air kills against the North Vietnamese Air Force in The Vietnam War. He later went on the record saying that he passed up at least ten opportunities to score a fifth MiG kill in Vietnam, because he'd been informed that the Secretary of the Air Force intended to yank him back home for a publicity tour as soon as he achieved two-war ace status.

Col. Robin Olds with his F-4C SCAT XXVII:



This F-4C is on display in the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force, . Olds named all his aircraft after his West Point roommate Scat Davis, who could not become a military pilot due to poor eyesight. Scat XXVII on display is loaded with a full complement of 750 pound bombs, AIM-7s as well as AIM-9 missiles and drop tanks (no internal gun since this is an F-4C.

Olds took command of the 8th Tactical Fighter Wing at Ubon Royal Thai Air Force Base in 1966. The unit he took over was short on aggression and initiative. Olds, then 44 years old, brought in another Air Force pioneer, Col. Daniel "Chappie" James, another World War II veteran and one of the Tuskegee Airmen, as his director of operations. The command team, which would come to be known as "Blackman and Robin," completely changed the culture of the 8th TFW. They were ready to take the war to the Vietnamese.After taking command of the 8th, Olds lost three F-4C aircraft to intercepting Mig-21s. He was frustrated with target restrictions from Washington and frustrated with the battlespace over North Vietnam. Ground observers and early warning radar provided by the Soviet Union would warn the VPAF what was coming. By the time attacking aircraft crossed the Red River, the MiGs were waiting for them. Olds wanted to use this tactic to his advantage.MiGs were in the air anytime U.S. aircraft were in the area. Two to four MiGs would remain near the enemy's base at Phuc Yen, while the rest attacked the bomber force along one intercept point on the southern side of the Red River and the other northeast of Thai Nguyen. The MiGs would attack the F-105 formations all along their route and generally avoid the F-4s.In response, Olds designed Bolo, the first offensive fighter sweep of the Vietnam War. Convinced of the superiority of U.S. pilots in air-to-air combat, he wanted to trick the North Vietnamese to read flights of F-4Cs as the slower, bulkier F-105s. Once the MiGs were in the air, the F-4s would break formation and attack on their own terms. To fool the radar and ground observers, the F-4s would fly in a 105 formation while using Thud call signs.

The model with Col. Olds book:




Col Olds book describes the opertion in detail but for a short but crisp read about the operation, read this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bolo

This model is an extremely proud addition to my collection and I can't be any more happier getting a model like this. Not only because of what I've read about his exploits in his books, but because this F-4 variant to fly in flight sims because of Cold Olds kills in the Vietnam War.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

1:100 McDonnell Douglas F-4C-24MC Phantom II

Your fighter collection is growing in leaps and bound everyday

The F-4 is also one of my favorite warbirds.

I believe if you read about history only from Western sources you get a very biased view. The fact is the US lost the Vietnam War and Col Olds was not an "Ace" in the Vietnam War. There were only two aces (Randy "Duke" Cunningham (USN) and Steve Ritchie (USAF)) from the US forces against 16 Aces in the Vietnamese Air Force (some flew subsonic Mig-17s with no missiles and shot down Phantoms), which is truly astonishing considering the odds there were against. Nguyen Van Coc is also the Top Ace of Vietnam War with 9 kills: 7 planes (including 3 F-4s) and 2 UAV (Un-manned Airborne Vehicle) Firebees. But I am yet to come across a book titled "Phantom Killers"

http://acepilots.com/vietnam/viet_aces.html

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the...hter-ace-22389

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

1:72 Iraqi Air Force Mi-17 Hip

The two MI-17s in my fleet:

Congratulations. I wish the IAF were able to add to their fleet as fast as you !!!. Between the two the Slovak one is better. But hey all aircraft scale models are beautiful.

Originally Posted by skanchan95

1:100 McDonnell Douglas F-4C-24MC Phantom II
Serial No.: 64-0829 "Scat XXVII"
Flown by : Col. Robin Olds(Pilot) -Col Olds flew this aircraft on his last mission of his tour of Vietnam.

Nice to see you have fulfilled a yearning to own a model of a hero you like. Olds was a great pilot and patriot and fought a long battle with a USAF hierarchy obsessed with the nuclear-armed bomber mission at the cost of everything else which cost them dearly in Vietnam. The Phantom C not having a gun was a common mistake that the British , Russian and Americans initially made in the late 1950s/mid 1960s era with the English Electric Lighting, MiG-21 and F-4 respectively. The French & the Swedes kept their common sense. It was the IAF that pushed the Russians to incorporate a cannon armament onto the Mig-21 that being a pre-condition to India accepting the license to build them. Initially MiG came up with a centerline 23mm twin pod that the FL's carried through their 35 year service life but it neutralized the centerline fuel tank carrying ability. The MiG-21M which we built from ~1973 onwards had the same gun system tucked into the fuselage after MiG re-designed the internal layout.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Ordered a Messerschmitt Bf 109 and a Mitsubishi Zero fighter on line. The former from Corgi UK and the latter from Amazon India. Will post after they arrive in a few weeks.

Old post but my eagle eyes caught the word "Zero"

Narayan where are the pictures of the A6M ? I was browsing eBay a few hours back and nearly ordered one but then went for something completely different.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Old post but my eagle eyes caught the word "Zero"

Narayan where are the pictures of the A6M ? I was browsing eBay a few hours back and nearly ordered one but then went for something completely different.

I had delegated the job to my daughter as a gift from her first salary. I didn't realize she was buying a revel assembly kit. The box lies unopened. I haven't had the time and don't quite like these kits anymore.

[skanchan95]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Your fighter collection is growing in leaps and bound everyday

The F-4 is also one of my favorite warbirds.

I believe if you read about history only from Western sources you get a very biased view. The fact is the US lost the Vietnam War and Col Olds was not an "Ace" in the Vietnam War.

Thank you.

Yes, Col. Olds did not have five kills in the Vietnam War to be called an ace. But his 16 cumulative kills from WW2(12 kills flying P-38s and P-51s) & Vietnam War (4 kills flying F-4Cs) made him 'technically' a Triple Ace. What made Col Olds legendary was his planning & execution of Operation Bolo.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

There were only two aces (Randy "Duke" Cunningham (USN) and Steve Ritchie (USAF)) from the US forces against 16 Aces in the Vietnamese Air Force (some flew subsonic Mig-17s with no missiles and shot down Phantoms), which is truly astonishing considering the odds there were against. Nguyen Van Coc is also the Top Ace of Vietnam War with 9 kills: 7 planes (including 3 F-4s) and 2 UAV (Un-manned Airborne Vehicle) Firebees. But I am yet to come across a book titled "Phantom Killers"

There have been many such truly amazing instances in history where relatively weak fighters ended up shooting down far more superior fighters. In the Vietnam war itself, there was an incident about a couple of USN A-1s combining to shoot down a VPAF MiG-17.

The Indo-Pak Wars, S/L Devayya's Mystere shot down a PAF F-104A. Then in 1971, a PAF Sabre shot down an IAF MiG-21FL. There was also a case of an IAF Gnat severely damaging a PAF Mirage III(EP or RP). Given the right circumstances and domain, no aircraft is invincible.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Congratulations. I wish the IAF were able to add to their fleet as fast as you !!!. Between the two the Slovak one is better. But hey all aircraft scale models are beautiful.

Thank you.
Yes the Iraqi one is a bit of a disappointment, no where as good as the Slovak one which is metal. Although I knew the Iraqi one was plastic, it isn't as good as I thought. I ended up breaking the attachments where the rotor blades slot into while trying to push the main rotor blades into them. If you see the model carefully, the blades are bent downwards badly because of this. But I liked the detailing..specially the Cyrillic stencils on the tail boom....certainly not a bad model though.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Nice to see you have fulfilled a yearning to own a model of a hero you like. Olds was a great pilot and patriot and fought a long battle with a USAF hierarchy obsessed with the nuclear-armed bomber mission at the cost of everything else which cost them dearly in Vietnam. The Phantom C not having a gun was a common mistake that the British , Russian and Americans initially made in the late 1950s/mid 1960s era with the English Electric Lighting, MiG-21 and F-4 respectively. The French & the Swedes kept their common sense.

The Americans did mange to correct that deficiency of USAF F-4 C & Ds by designing and installing a gunpod on the centerline, but it was prone to frequent jams. The F-4E of course came with an internal gun.

This episode was my favourite from Dogfights series...specially the section on F-4Ds with gunpods.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74kT1GOW9BQ

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

It was the IAF that pushed the Russians to incorporate a cannon armament onto the Mig-21 that being a pre-condition to India accepting the license to build them. Initially MiG came up with a centerline 23mm twin pod that the FL's carried through their 35 year service life but it neutralized the centerline fuel tank carrying ability. The MiG-21M which we built from ~1973 onwards had the same gun system tucked into the fuselage after MiG re-designed the internal layout.

It was very foolish idea not to have guns. The earlier Type 74 MiG-21F-13s had a single cannon on the starboard side. The Type 76 MiG-21PF did not have it at all. While the Type 77 MiG-21FLs were delivered with GP-9 gunpods but I did read that there were some issues with the gunsights supplied by the Soviets were not accurate enough. Engineers from HAL & the IAF installed the Gnat's gunsight in the MiG-21FL to correct this issue..

One of my favourite WW2 Navy fighters - the Chance Vought F4U-4 Corsair. The model is slightly damaged.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by skanchan95

There have been many such truly amazing instances in history where relatively weak fighters ended up shooting down far more superior fighters. In the Vietnam war itself, there was an incident about a couple of USN A-1s combining to shoot down a VPAF MiG-17.

Given the right circumstances and domain, no aircraft is invincible.

As a child from around 1970 I followed the Vietnam war with interest in newspapers and Time and Life magazines brought from the circulating libraries. My sympathies, I'll confess, were with the North Vietnamese. Their aerial victories and SAM successes did not come to light till the 1990s after the cold war. The Vietnamese hoped for freedom from the colonial yoke after 1945 given that the French were out. Sadly the French resumed control under the American gun and re-established colonial rule. For the North it was first the 'French War' followed by the 'American War'. They saw the US intervention as merely a continuation of western attempt to rule them in one way or the other.

I ended up breaking the attachments where the rotor blades slot into while trying to push the main rotor blades into them.

....combat damage

If you see the model carefully, the blades are bent downwards badly because of this.

...and repaired in the field

....certainly not a bad model though.

...like babies all scale models of aircraft are beautiful

I did read that there were some issues with the gunsights supplied by the Soviets were not accurate enough. Engineers from HAL & the IAF installed the Gnat's gunsight in the MiG-21FL to correct this issue.

What!!! Tell us more. Didn't know this. I am also surprised as MiG was not the kind of bureau to get something so basic wrong. I wonder if it is western propaganda and prejudice which the internet is flooded with.

One of my favourite WW2 Navy fighters - the Chance Vought F4U-4 Corsair. The model is slightly damaged.

What a war winning aircraft this was. The British did a better job lionizing their aircraft be it Spitfire, Mosquito or Lancaster but it was the Americans who developed many more superlative machines - Mustang, Liberator, Catalina, DC-3, Corsair. Never found a 1:72 or 1:48 of the IL-2 Sturmovik

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As a child from around 1970 I followed the Vietnam war with interest in newspapers and Time and Life magazines brought from the circulating libraries. My sympathies, I'll confess, were with the North Vietnamese. Their aerial victories and SAM successes did not come to light till the 1990s after the cold war. The Vietnamese hoped for freedom from the colonial yoke after 1945 given that the French were out. Sadly the French resumed control under the American gun and re-established colonial rule. For the North it was first the 'French War' followed by the 'American War'. They saw the US intervention as merely a continuation of western attempt to rule them in one way or the other.

Exactly the point I was trying to make

If you read about history from heavily biased sources like Time and Life magazine they will portray a decisive defeat (Vietnam War) as victory or try to portray themselves fighting for freedom (I'm sure they never printed anything about the mass murder of civilians by US troops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre). When in fact it was them occupying a small impoverished nation which had just forced out the French Colonial Power.
The real heroic deeds are of Vietnamese pilots who were born in families of peasants who went straight from riding a bicycle to flying Mig-17s and Mig-21s and becoming Aces(few learned to drive a car after flying a plane!). Some flew their whole career on subsonic Mig-17s without radars and missiles and shot down Mach 2 capable missile equipped Phantoms.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Exactly the point I was trying to make

If you read about history from heavily biased sources like Time and Life magazine they will portray a decisive defeat (Vietnam War) as victory or try to portray themselves fighting for freedom (I'm sure they never printed anything about the mass murder of civilians by US troops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre). When in fact it was them occupying a small impoverished nation which had just forced out the French Colonial Power.
The real heroic deeds are of Vietnamese pilots who were born in families of peasants who went straight from riding a bicycle to flying Mig-17s and Mig-21s and becoming Aces(few learned to drive a car after flying a plane!). Some flew their whole career on subsonic Mig-17s without radars and missiles and shot down Mach 2 capable missile equipped Phantoms.

Yes you are right. I know we all don't want our respective political views to take away Sandesh's joy of owning a Phantom F-4 flown by a pilot hero he admires. As scale model enthusiasts we will each have our preferences. Olds was a military man doing what he had been ordered to just like our men were ordered into Sri Lanka in 1988 a matter that Sri Lankans view very differently. And today Vietnam & USA are busy mending fences. Not just the Americans but the French before them and the Chinese after them learnt the hard way what a formidable and innovative adversary and leader Vo Nguyen Giap was.

When a nation becomes too powerful with an over arching military then it becomes like the man with a big hammer and every problem looks like a nail because he is itching to use the hammer. It happened with the Americans in Vietnam and Iraq and with the Soviets in Afghanistan.

Any way enough of geo politics. Two aircraft have just arrived a Gloster Gladiator bi-plane and a North American Aviation Mustang P-51. The P-51, in my opinion, was one of the 4 top fighters of WW2 - my other three favourites - the Yak-3 (and its close upgrades the -7 and -9), the Zero and the Spitfire.

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Two aircraft have just arrived a Gloster Gladiator bi-plane and a North American Aviation Mustang P-51. The P-51, in my opinion, was one of the 4 top fighters of WW2 - my other three favourites - the Yak-3 (and its close upgrades the -7 and -9), the Zero and the Spitfire.

Thats great to hear, pics please!

Top 4 without the German greats: Fw-190, Bf-109 and Me-262 ?

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Thats great to hear, pics please!

Top 4 without the German greats: Fw-190, Bf-109 and Me-262 ?

Thank you for pointing out. I hang my head in shame. Hazards of writing posts late in the night when my already limited grey cells get dimmer. Between the 3 I pick Fw-190....big soft spot there but how can one ignore the Bf-109 and Me-262. For my sacrilege I'll now observe a minute of silence. If I had to pick 3 and only 3 I'd pick FW, Yak and Zero. Never managed to find a good Yak model yet. In 1942-43 when the Normandie Niemen Sqn was asked to pick any Allied fighter for their operations in Russia (against the Germans) they unanimously choose the Yak-3 stating it was superior to both the Mustang and the Spitfire.