[GTO]

Just wanted to put in a good word for Getgrowfit.com. Am a big fan of their yummy keto snacks, including chocolate bars & almond crackers.

Thank me when you're enjoying their guilt-free desert .

[srishiva]

If Autophagy is the goal, fasting for 10 (or 8)hours and working out intensely should create the same conditions ?
I guess it all comes to not giving your body input but extracting energy out of it. Exercise is one of the ways to do it and you dont have to starve if you cant.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Exercise is one of the ways to do it...

Maybe I've been reading selectively, but IMHO a lot more has been posted about the kind of food that needs to be eaten or avoided rather than about getting off one's...and moving that body through exercise!

Again, IMHO, watch what you eat by all means, but far, far more importantly for weight loss and good health, take up a sport, give it your all when you are at it (talking about exerting fully, rather than about winning or achieving some sporting-related goal), and stick with it.

[tj123]

Originally Posted by srishiva

If Autophagy is the goal, fasting for 10 (or 8)hours and working out intensely should create the same conditions ?
I guess it all comes to not giving your body input but extracting energy out of it. Exercise is one of the ways to do it and you dont have to starve if you cant.

Well Autophagy is a highly regulated process, If it runs amok, out of control, this would be detrimental, so it must be carefully controlled. One of the main goal of fasting is to bring down insulin levels in the body,
Here is an article related to Autophagy published in diet doctor https://www.dietdoctor.com/renew-body-fasting-autophagy

"Nutrient deprivation is the key activator of autophagy. Remember that glucagon is kind of the opposite hormone to insulin. It’s like the game we played as kids – ‘opposite day’. If insulin goes up, glucagon goes down. If insulin goes down, glucagon goes up. As we eat, insulin goes up and glucagon goes down. When we don’t eat (fast) insulin goes down and glucagon goes up. This increase in glucagon stimulates the process of autophagy. In fact, fasting (raises glucagon) provides the greatest known boost to autophagy.

This is in essence a form of cellular cleansing. The body identifies old and substandard cellular equipment and marks it for destruction. It is the accumulation of all this junk that may be responsible for many of the effects of aging.

Fasting is actually far more beneficial than just stimulating autophagy. It does two good things. By stimulating autophagy, we are clearing out all our old, junky proteins and cellular parts. At the same time, fasting also stimulates growth hormone, which tells our body to start producing some new snazzy parts for the body. We are really giving our bodies the complete renovation.

You need to get rid of the old stuff before you can put in new stuff. Think about renovating your kitchen. If you have old, crappy 1970s style lime green cabinets sitting around, you need to junk them before putting in some new ones. So the process of destruction (removal) is just as important as the process of creation. If you simply tried to put in new cabinets without taking out the old ones, it would be pretty fugly. So fasting may in some ways reverse the aging process, by getting rid of old cellular junk and replacing it with new parts."

[ebonho]

Week #1 IF Update

1) Not having breakfast was never the problem I thought it would be. There are some severe churning growls from the tummy post my morning bike ride ... right about the time I would have had breakfast, and am now making myself a black coffee.

2) No problem with energy at work. Till Lunch, or even after lunch. No nodding off. No waves of sleep. In fact I used to sometimes (on tough ride days) get waves in the afternoon session (was having breakfast, skipping lunch). Now I am wide awake.

3) I think I might be overdoing at lunch though, which I'm pushing and stretching out to the outer limit to 2 p.m. I've seen the videos about IF being just a modified schedule/regimen of Keto. But I was very clear at the start that I did not want to do keto. Only IF, and eat two normal meals. Please tell me that is going to work or am I wasting my time and effort?

As an example, this is what I had for lunch today ...



Too much?

I'll try and stay off rice, break, rotis, puris, sugar, sweets/chocolates/ice cream, potatoes, etc.

4) I'm trying to have my dinner by 8 p.m. but its not happening. Its becoming 9, sometimes even 10, once even 11 (I delayed lunch to 4 p.m. the next day to compensate).

5) I'm coming back home and having a short nap. This is new. Is it transient? Related to exercise or the diet?

6) Bowel movements have become more frequent , i.e. there is an added one late evening/night. Sorry for the gory details, but wanted to know if that's an expected thing.

7) The needle on the scale is still touching the 9, though on its left. I guess that's great. But when can I see the big drops?

Cheers, Doc

[NPV]

Some of our extended families living in Kerala, still follow this to date (and most of us who moved out of our ancestral/agriculturist past) to other places, gradually lost this good practice over the years).
Maybe this is something people living in coastal regions follow ? Samurai/ampere may know better

Usual schedule of meals they follow:
1. Early lunch around noon
2. Snack (this is usually stuff that people would have otherwise had for breakfast like Dosa, Idly, etc) at 4pm
3. Dinner before 8pm

Basically, they have all 3 meals in an 8 hour window and the rest 16 hours is fasting, similar to IF (except for the LCHF diet part). However, I'm not sure of the reasons behind this schedule/practice, but it is something that dates back to at least 70 years or more. Of course, in those days the physical work done by these people would have been more due to them being involved in agriculture, hence they did not have weight related problems despite being on a predominantly rice/carb based diet.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by tj123

Here is an article related to Autophagy published in diet doctor https://www.dietdoctor.com/renew-body-fasting-autophagy

Originally Posted by srishiva

If Autophagy is the goal, fasting for 10 (or 8)hours and working out intensely should create the same conditions ?
I guess it all comes to not giving your body input but extracting energy out of it. Exercise is one of the ways to do it and you dont have to starve if you cant.

As tj123 has clearly explained, autophagy has nothing to do with input and expenditure of energy. It is related to the hormones insulin and human growth hormone (HGH). The idea is that HGH which is responsible for housekeeping and is active only when insulin is not present in the blood. And insulin is not present only if you extend your fasting window beyond the 10-12 hours which is the time it takes for insulin to become zero.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Week #1 IF Update

I've seen the videos about IF being just a modified schedule/regimen of Keto. But I was very clear at the start that I did not want to do keto. Only IF, and eat two normal meals. Please tell me that is going to work or am I wasting my time and effort?

As an example, this is what I had for lunch today ....

From some interviews of Dr. Jason Fung, IF does work without following a perfect ketogenic diet. But if you keep eating carbs with high glycemic loads, you are still spiking blood sugar which will still result in fat storage. So, what your body would do is store fat during the sugar spikes and then burn it the next day during the fasting window. But still you will not be burning the long term fat reserves. This will work well once you reach your target weight. But till you reach your target weight, you need to prevent your body from storing fat or at least slow down this process so that your body burns this excess fat during fasting. So, try to cut off carbs with high glycemic load like sugar, rice, maida etc, and add carbs with low glycemic load like lentils, millets, vegetables etc. And also add food that have high amount of fat and moderate protein like butter, ghee, cheese, paneer etc. The good thing about this type of food is that they keep you full for a long time and can cut down your carb craving.

If you follow a normal diet with IF, then it will take some amount of experimenting to tune the diet to your body. You will figure out a sustainable diet which will also prevent any weight gain.

[Rahulkool]

My weight loss journey summed up in a single pic.



I started out some time June 2018 at 88kg and in Nov 2018 i was at my minimum in last decade at 64.9kg, feels great , i am 5'8".

Jan 2018 i did a Chennai-Mangalore-Goa-Chennai road trip and upon reaching Goa had really bad back pain. Doctor in chennai hinted that it might be because of over weight and sedentary lifestyle. Although pain was gone in couple of weeks, i took rest for almost 45days. It was sort of alarm bell for me, had to reduce weight at any cost!

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

My weight loss journey summed up in a single pic.

What about body fat and muscle mass percentages? That's a better marker than just weight.

[Rahulkool]

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

What about body fat and muscle mass percentages? That's a better marker than just weight.

Havent checked that, I have lost a bit of muscle mass also. i feel lot better and healthier than before and do at least 45-60mins of activity daily, walking/cycling. Many have suggested to join gym but i am not sure if i will be able to do it regularly

[ampere]

Originally Posted by Rahulkool

My weight loss journey summed up in a single pic.

Amazing journey! You may want to pen down, the path and the story! For all here it would be an inspiration!

[tj123]

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

What about body fat and muscle mass percentages? That's a better marker than just weight.

In my opinion don't go by just muscle mass instead go with power to weight ratio . In general leaner people even with less muscle are more athletic and agile as they dont have to haul the heavy fat weight.

[srishiva]

Originally Posted by graaja

As tj123 has clearly explained, autophagy has nothing to do with input and expenditure of energy. It is related to the hormones insulin and human growth hormone (HGH). The idea is that HGH which is responsible for housekeeping and is active only when insulin is not present in the blood. And insulin is not present only if you extend your fasting window beyond the 10-12 hours which is the time it takes for insulin to become zero.

.

Thanks. According to the link above autophagy is activated due to nutrient deprivation. Insulin is absent either when we dont eat anything or we dont have any need for it due to intense exercise. If both reduces insulin, both should activate glucagon. Some literature I have read does indicate that.

Now the production of human growth hormone is something I dont know if intense exercise can stimulate

Then is fasting the alternate way of getting the advantages without doing much !

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by tj123

In my opinion don't go by just muscle mass instead go with power to weight ratio . In general leaner people even with less muscle are more athletic and agile as they dont have to haul the heavy fat weight.

As I mentioned, you have to understand more markers than just weight... Such as muscle mass and fast percentage.

As OP mentioned, he's lost muscle mass as well, which might not be the best result moving ahead.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by srishiva

Thanks. According to the link above autophagy is activated due to nutrient deprivation. Insulin is absent either when we dont eat anything or we dont have any need for it due to intense exercise. If both reduces insulin, both should activate glucagon.

Based on various experiments I have been doing in the past couple of years, this is what I think about this theory, but I could be totally wrong as well. To give a background, I am an amateur triathlete and train 6 days a week and have been incorporating LCHF and IF into my training schedule.

This is theoretically possible. Exercise can be used to use up all the glucose in the blood and bring down insulin to zero. But the amount of exercise you need to bring down insulin to zero will be very high. You need to do some really high intensity workouts with heart rate at 150+ that will use up all the sugar in your blood. It is not just enough to remove insulin, you need to extend the window when insulin is absent. Only then the HGH or glucagon will get some time to do their job. This would mean not eating anything after exercise, which usually is tough. Usually, most of us get really hungry after an intense workout and the reaction is to eat well after a workout.

Originally Posted by srishiva

Then is fasting the alternate way of getting the advantages without doing much !

In a way, yes. I consider Health and Fitness as two different goals with a little overlap. If you want to be healthy and energetic with no lifestyle diseases, IF with clean eating (no sugar, no processed food, carbs in moderation) alone is enough. If you want to be fit as well, then you can add physical activities (like running, swimming, cycling, badminton, tennis etc.) to this clean eating.