[NPV]

This came up on my feed, a good one to watch for newcomers to intermittent fasting.

https://youtu.be/QKqcEb9tj_k

[dhanushs]

Hi All,

Sorry if this has been discussed before. But, how do you deal with muscle loss when you are on a diet and not working out in a Gym? Or does muscle loss even happen?

The first stage of my diet has taken me from a 102kgs to 85 kgs. It was two years back and till today I've successfully managed to hold on to that weight (well, around 2-3kgs going up and down). The important thing to note is is that I'm no longer on Keto, but dont barge in on carbs like before. The servings of rice and carbs have gone down.

Now, I'm planning to take it to the next stage to a target weight of 75-78. Possibly with more cardio (Read: Running) in the morning and evening. But, I'm concerned that I'll be losing muscles mass? Experts, please clarify.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by dhanushs

Now, I'm planning to take it to the next stage to a target weight of 75-78. Possibly with more cardio (Read: Running) in the morning and evening. But, I'm concerned that I'll be losing muscles mass? Experts, please clarify.

I have seen several videos on this subject. It is a wrong concept that our body will metabolize muscles for energy. Quoting Dr. Jason Fung: "Our body is a very intelligent machine. It is not foolish to burn muscle when it has abundant fat stores which it is programmed to burn for energy during lack of food". There are many studies that have also measured muscle loss during various lengths of fasting and have concluded that there is no significant muscle loss.

When you have a very high fat %, and when you lose all that fat, there is very little muscle in your body that you started with and this will definitely create an illusion that you lost muscle.

The solution to this problem is to build lean muscles while you lose fat mass. You need to add strength training as part of your workout routine. Add at least 3 strength training sessions a week to build lean muscles as you lose fat. This also has another advantage. Lean muscles have higher metabolic rate than fat mass. So, as you build lean muscles, your basal metabolic rate increases which will result in more fat being burnt.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by graaja

The solution to this problem is to build lean muscles while you lose fat mass.

I agree to everything you have said except for the above statement.

To lose fat you need to be in a calorie deficit, to gain muscle you need to be in a calorie surplus. Both don't happen at the same time.

For beginners, the rate of muscle building is high as well as the rate of fat loss. But the base is that only one thing happens. Only if fat could turn into muscle and vice versa, both can happen at the same time.


Regarding the original query, don't fear losing muscle while losing weight. You may lose muscle but not significantly.

I was a big dude, and after 2000 km of cardio, 13 months of calorie deficits and 45 kg lesser, I still am a big dude but with less fat %

As Graaja said, only way to restrict muscle loss is to provide stimulus to the body that it needs the muscle tissue. Body is very intelligent, and wants to survive no matter what. So when you give that stimulus (strength training or any other hard labour), body reminds itself that it will have to face that level of physical exertion in future and would retain muscle.

But to get stronger while losing fat is possible. Personal experience, I got stronger consistently while losing fat. A possible explanation may be muscle memory and adaptation of the CNS and strengthening of bones/joints as you keep training consistently.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

I agree to everything you have said except for the above statement.

To lose fat you need to be in a calorie deficit, to gain muscle you need to be in a calorie surplus. Both don't happen at the same time.

.

I don't think it's entirely correct as per my understanding. Losing fat is not just about calories. Because after all not all calories are equal.
They differ in the way they are metabolised.
Fats, Protiens and carbs are metabolised in different ways. If you do weight training while in keto, but with sufficient protien intake, you should still build lean mass while losing fat.
Body is intelligent in redirecting protien to repair the muscle and in the process building lean mass while making use of the energy from food and excess body fat to keep the metabolism needs fulfilled.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by vibbs

I don't think it's entirely correct as per my understanding. Losing fat is not just about calories. Because after all not all calories are equal.
They differ in the way they are metabolised.
Fats, Protiens and carbs are metabolised in different ways. If you do weight training while in keto, but with sufficient protien intake, you should still build lean mass while losing fat.
Body is intelligent in redirecting protien to repair the muscle and in the process building lean mass while making use of the energy from food and excess body fat to keep the metabolism needs fulfilled.

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

To lose fat you need to be in a calorie deficit, to gain muscle you need to be in a calorie surplus. Both don't happen at the same time.

I agree with vibbs. Building muscles is not about calories. Of the three macro-nutrients, body uses protein to repair muscles. So, if you are into strength training while on Keto or IF, all you need to do is adjust your macros to provide enough protein and you will be able to build lean muscles. I am doing this right now. I do Keto with IF (16:8 on most days and OMAD once or twice a week), and do strength training thrice a week, and I can definitely feel my muscles becoming firmer and some definition being visible.

[PrasannaDhana]

Muscles becoming firmer and definitions getting clearer is an effect of fat around the existing muscles getting lost. If muscle building and fat loss happens at the same time, the entire professional bodybuilding fraternity will have no use for PEDs.

[doxinboy]

Originally Posted by ampere

The way to solve it is dont go in full spartan mode during your schedule. Allow yourselfes some delicacies!

Thanks ampere, it's the cravings that destroy the goal, including delicacies in small portion seem to be a good idea

Originally Posted by Sheel

You should ask what motivated you and then, what made you go careless?

Thanks sheel, there you go dude, sometimes on our journey we forgot those early days, a little walk in the memory lane will trigger and correct our approach, this is helping to be on track again.

Originally Posted by FrodoOfTheShire

It's been just a week as you said. That too it was the Christmas New Year week. So it's understandable. Don't beat yourself up!

Thanks FrodoOfTheShire, yep, its been holiday eating, since its over, I'm back to 72 from 74. Feel relieved. My dream is to see 70 on scale, stuck at 71/72 for almost 2 months, God help me

Originally Posted by am1m

I find that doing something as a group helps

True, just saying hello to regulars and trainers at gym helps, if I miss a day, I'm glad there are people who genuinely enquire.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

Muscles becoming firmer and definitions getting clearer is an effect of fat around the existing muscles getting lost. If muscle building and fat loss happens at the same time, the entire professional bodybuilding fraternity will have no use for PEDs.

Professional body builders are already at a very low fat level and high Muscle mass. Most of us here dont desire that level of muscle building.

For a normal person with excess body fat and moderate aims to develop muscles it is possible to lose fat and gain muscle mass at the same time while being in a calorie deficit.

Again, if you are building muscles like professional body builders, we are talking of completely different thing!

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by graaja

... It is a wrong concept that our body will metabolize muscles for energy. ....

Originally Posted by PrasannaDhana

...
Regarding the original query, don't fear losing muscle while losing weight. You may lose muscle but not significantly. ....

Thank you I think this answers it.

[vibbs]

People who follow IF and run as well, I have a question for you. Have you tried running in fasted as well as fed state both?

Of late I have seen that I can run faster, easier and longer in fasted (after around 12-13 hrs into the fast) state than in fed state (3-4 hrs from last meal- normally lunch).
Curious. I thought performance should be better in fed state than in fasted state!

[NPV]

Originally Posted by vibbs

People who follow IF and run as well, I have a question for you. Have you tried running in fasted as well as fed state both?

Of late I have seen that I can run faster, easier and longer in fasted (after around 12-13 hrs into the fast) state than in fed state (3-4 hrs from last meal- normally lunch).

I'm a novice when it comes to running (doing it < 6 months), but I feel the same, actually found it difficult to run much in fed state and enjoy it more and feel more energetic in fasted state.

This video talks about exercising in the fasting window

https://youtu.be/mcKEGv5Wucw

[FORTified]

No update from anybody since 11-Jan and this thread is moved into third page now
Please keep posting your progress, findings, issues, solutions etc., at good frequency.
You know, you have many followers here.

[NPV]

Almost 2 months since my last update here. Weight is almost stable at 76kg (seems like a plateau sometimes when I track weight) but continuing to lose inches and feeling much more lighter, alert, active and fitter. The best part is that the exercise routine is so ingrained now that even on a holiday/Sunday I don't feel like giving it a miss. Of course, I don't overtrain and don't exercise if I'm tired or feel any muscle soreness.
There are some days (though infrequent) when I break the IF/low carb/exercise routine due to schedules changing or events but that hasn't resulted in weight gain. I would say if one can keep the discipline adherence to about 85%, it should be good enough, IF + low carb is forgiving when it's a lifestyle with few exceptions.

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by NPV

Almost 2 months since my last update here. Weight is almost stable at 76kg (seems like a plateau sometimes when I track weight) but continuing to lose inches and feeling much more lighter, alert, active and fitter.

I think all's good as long as the inches reduce! The weight will break the plateau soon.
This month, I ended up breaking my plateau as well. This graph of monthly average shows the decline.


For almost 2 months the monthly average was above 78 and seemed I had plataeued between upwards of 77.5 and 78.5.

December numbers were.

Max weight: 79.3, Min weight: 77.4, Average weight: 78.2
Max Fat: 25.3%, Min fat: 24.6, Average Fat: 24.9

But this month the Plateau broke and I got a few days under 77 as well.