[PPS]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Earlier, we had some First Class matches interspersed.

I think there was an India 'A' v/s SA 'A' match played a few weeks earlier where Prasidh Krishna picked up 5 wickets. But majority of the players played an intra-squad practice match which makes no sense. Virat Kohli missed this match. Ideally atleast 2 4-day games are a must but due to packed schedule isn't possible on most occasions.

[PreludeSH]

Our bowlers bowled lot of variations which was not needed. Even Bumrah did the same but then he does bowl great deliveries which gives him wickets.

With Swing you dont need lot of variety. You need to have a nagging line and length and mostly change both only slightly to tempt the batsmen if they are defensive. Unplayable deliveries which are not bowled on wickets will not yield wickets when you face a home team who knows how to play.

[padmrajravi]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

All this said, our last two test series victories in Australia is a fabulous testament to our team's resilience in the face of significant oddsn Those wins are very sweet considering the reputation of Australia in their home conditions.

They did not have a good captain then. I don't think we will be able to repeat that acheivement now. Captaincy plays an important part in those tight matches. Cummins is the best captain in world cricket now. He does his homework and executes it perfectly.

On the other hand, we are doomed in that factor. We need a good captain to win our fortunes back. Hardik is not the answer. He will never have respect from team members. I am hopeful about KL Rahul and Bumrah. I think we need to let go of all other captaincy experiments and give the responsibility to these two as captain and vice captain. May be even switch primary responsibility across formats. And stick to that combination for a couple of years.

[vijaykr]

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

They did not have a good captain then. I don't think we will be able to repeat that achievement now. Captaincy plays an important part in those tight matches. Cummins is the best captain in world cricket now. He does his homework and executes it perfectly.

No doubt Cummins is a very good captain, but it still doesn't detract anything from our team's wins in those series. Especially coming back after the hiding in Adelaide.

While captaincy is important, it's not like the other 10 players don't have any voice or need very detailed instructions. A moment of inspiration can come from anywhere. And we got that in spades from unexpected quarters in those series.

And it's not like Australia didn't have Smith, Warner and Cummins himself who have played enough and more to be able to work with Paine to strategize. In hindsight, we can also say that it was only after Kohli left the tour and Rahane took over the wins came about. By doing so, we are ignoring all the work that happens behind the scenes and the environment/mindset setup over time. By the same token, can we attribute yesterday's huge loss to Rohit entirely? I wish he'd taken a few different calls and imposed himself both as a captain and batsman, but end of the day, on the day we just take it as the better team won.

Who's to say we'll not be able to beat AUS in future. It looked difficult as well before these tours but our team did it twice. End of the day, the records will have it that Australia was beaten at home by India

[Oxy]

God knows why this batting coach of ours called Vikram Rathour is never held accountable even after so many batting failures. On what basis does he get to keep his job?

Also, Shardul and Prasidh should never play in whites again. If you cannot get wickets on this pitch, then you are just a hopeless case.

[Revvatron]

Originally Posted by vijaykr

No doubt Cummins is a very good captain, but it still doesn't detract anything from our team's wins in those series. Especially coming back after the hiding in Adelaide.

While captaincy is important, it's not like the other 10 players don't have any voice or need very detailed instructions. A moment of inspiration can come from anywhere. And we got that in spades from unexpected quarters in those series.

I think ever since Cummins became captain it's like he levelled up like in a video game. From Ashes, Pak tour, World cup, current pak series he stepped up and lead from front.There is certainly something different about him now, as if we can sense he will do something. Also I am loving a fast bowler captain. Also you are right about previous tours down under. There was leadership across the board from likes of Pujara, Rahane, Ashwin, Kohli(in tour before).

OT, has anyone noticed almost empty stadium for the boxing day test in Aus. You can hear the echo from ball when batsmen were hitting a shot. Sure it was not a weekend but still kind of holiday season and there is good contingent of Pak supporters living there.Worrying signs maybe

[sgiitk]

We know that ZA had no answers to Kuldeep Yadav, as they are poor against spin and even more against Chinaman. Why is he kept out of the Test Squad beats me. Ashwin is a good spinner, but his type of Off Spin is common. But basically it was no experience of our top order on those wickets so were in trouble against them in both areas.

[Raghav07]

After the horrendous show by India against SA in the first test, I would like to make some statements.

1. KOHLI SHOULD BE CAPTAIN AGAIN.
2.Kohli should continue the aggressive batting he did in the second innings.
3. Bumrah should be bowled after the Lunch and Tea breaks
4. Whenever a left hander is batting, ASHWIN MUST BE GIVEN OVERS.
5.In case of team collapse and a main batter is still there with team 5 or 6 wickets down, THE NON STRIKER(aka Ashwin or Thakur or other bowlers) SHOULD NOT GO FOR RUNS WHY IS THIS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND.
6.Indian fielders should get more vocal. Cricket is a mind game, and sledging needs to be used. Kohli and Pant did this very well, especially when Kohli was captain.
7. More bouncers to South Africans, I really don't care if they get injured. I want India to win.

Sorry for the caps, but its hard to see such a good team perform this badly. I would hope for a better show from Indian batters and bowlers.

The 2nd test is at Newlands, where India lost badly(Pant 100 out of 198 in second innings), but I have faith in Kohli and others.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by Raghav07

After the horrendous show by India against SA in the first test, I would like to make some statements.

1. KOHLI SHOULD BE CAPTAIN AGAIN.

This exactly is where the downfall began.
Ganguly with his low level politics made Virat quit test captaincy when he was India's best test captain without a doubt. At that time people readily said how tough it is to Captain a team and 5 time ipl winner Rohit Sharma will show how to win.

People conveniently forgot Kohli developed the Pace bowling and led them with his aggression which lifted everyone in the team resulting in 5 consecutive Test maces. Test Captaincy is a very tough job and hardest among all formats. There are so many twist and turns and you can't relax even for a session as matches are lost in a session.

Someone Rightly mentioned before how Australia will never bench Nathan Lyon. And here this idiotic management benched Ashwin(no.1 test bowler) easily in WTC final when in last WTC final he was one of the best bowlers for the team. The advantage with Ashwin has always been his tight bowling. Even if he can't bring bunch of wickets you can be rest assured he won't give easy runs to opposition. Prasidh and Thakur were gifting runs and Rohit completely ignored Ashwin knowing fully well how good he is against left handed batsman. Rohit looks completely disinterested and if he isn't mentally fit due to World cup final debacle then he shouldn't be playing. This is the weakest SA batting line up ever and still they won with an innings. Terrible.

[Eddy]

The World Cup final loss has had quite an impact on me. I haven't seen any India game properly (except when Rinku and Jaiswal were batting). I was also quite indifferent to the loss in this test match, except for Kohli's success. Did not impact me one bit. I was more involved in the Australia-Pakistan game, strangely.

Michael Vaughan is right - the Indian cricket team is the biggest underachiever of all time, given the talent, money, craze, etc that we have for the game.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by Eddy

The World Cup final loss has had quite an impact on me. I haven't seen any India game properly (except when Rinku and Jaiswal were batting). I was also quite indifferent to the loss in this test match, except for Kohli's success. Did not impact me one bit. I was more involved in the Australia-Pakistan game, strangely.

Michael Vaughan is right - the Indian cricket team is the biggest underachiever of all time, given the talent, money, craze, etc that we have for the game.

I echo your sentiments.
Since that final loss I do watch the games but I take it for granted this team won't do well when needed. It doesn't matter how much fans care as it's evident Bcci and most players don't care. Ipl gives them both enough money to last lifetime so the passion to perform while playing for the nation has gone down which is evident in there carefree attitude.

There was no need for 3 odis on this tour when next world cup is in 2027. Could have played couple of practice games instead for tests. But no, have to mint as much money as possible.

4 players who have been saving the games and winning for India since sometime were missing.

Pant
Jadeja
Axar
Shami.

I can excuse Jaiswal as he is new so can take a little time to adjust. But Gill and Iyer have no business to be in test team. When you can't play a movie ball like Gill and a short ball like Iyer then tests isn't the format for you. If management has an iota of brain (which they don't) and can rise above favoritism then Easwaran should play next game in place of Gill or Iyer. He should open and Rohit should come at 3 or 5 depending on whose dropped. Give specialist openers who have done well in domestic opportunities. As Captain Rohit needs to take hard calls for betterment of team. Prasidh should be dropped and Mukesh should play. If Jadeja is fit then he and Ashwin both should play. Thakur needs to be dropped too.

Bumrah
Siraj
Mukesh
Jadeja
Ashwin

This is the best attack available in current squad and also gives a little depth to batting at 7 and 8th.

[Raghav07]

Originally Posted by harry10

Thakur needs to be dropped too.

Bumrah
Siraj
Mukesh
Jadeja
Ashwin

This is the best attack available in current squad and also gives a little depth to batting at 7 and 8th.

Playing 2 spinners in South Africa is not wise. I know Thakur is expensive but he has got a good record here last tour. His batting will improve but he has hit 50s in England and Australia. He is capable. If he bowls the right lines, he will be a wicket taker. But what you said about Mukesh is correct, he should be in the playing 11.
But to be honest, we heed Shami.

[PPS]

Originally Posted by PreludeSH

Our bowlers bowled lot of variations which was not needed. With Swing you dont need lot of variety.

Not sure what you mean by variation. There was no need to swing the ball. Mostly Tall Hit-The-Deck bowlers succeed in SA! Prasidh fits in that category but was looking to swing the ball & ultimately bowled full & gave the batsman width. In entire innings he barely bowled 2 good spells. Its upto the Bowling Coach to work on these rookie bowlers.

Originally Posted by padmrajravi

We need a good captain to win our fortunes back. I am hopeful about KL Rahul and Bumrah.

KL Rahul has only cemented his place in ODIs & I'm not sure how many ODIs we play for another year. His captaincy skills seem to have improved compared to IPL. Bumrah the bowler is more crucial to India than Bumrah the Captain I feel.

Originally Posted by vijaykr

In hindsight, we can also say that it was only after Kohli left the tour and Rahane took over the wins came about. By doing so, we are ignoring all the work that happens behind the scenes and the environment/mindset setup over time.

Rahane essentially won with a group of net bowlers in Australia! But the media built it up as Virat's team & Rahane didn't get enough credit as he thought he would.

Originally Posted by sgiitk

We know that ZA had no answers to Kuldeep Yadav, as they are poor against spin and even more against Chinaman. Why is he kept out of the Test Squad beats me.

You can't have everyone in the team or the squad! Majority of the wickets in SA are taken by Seamers. Spinners can at best bowl a tight spell.

Originally Posted by Raghav07

1. KOHLI SHOULD BE CAPTAIN AGAIN.

I wonder if Virat is interested in Test Captaincy! And not sure who in the BCCI should discuss with him regarding this. Perhaps Roger Binny.

Originally Posted by harry10

There was no need for 3 odis on this tour when next world cup is in 2027. Could have played couple of practice games instead for tests.

Agreed. This Intra-Squad practice game is a joke!

But no, have to mint as much money as possible.

CSA gets to mint money, not necessarily BCCI.

https://www.freepressjournal.in/spor...f-south-africa

But Gill and Iyer have no business to be in test team. When you can't play a movie ball like Gill and a short ball like Iyer then tests isn't the format for you.

Both Gill & Iyer in the 2nd innings missed straight half volleys! Which clearly means they were caught by surprise. Gill has done decently in Australia & he will struggle against the moving ball alongwith Shreyas. KL perhaps can be looked at as a pure batsman at no.5/6 since his technique is more assured. Still feel team needs a good defensive player like Vihari in such conditions to fight it out. Unfortunately he's lost form.

[am1m]

Fantastic stuff from the Pak tail-ender, getting them past 300 from the position they were in. Now, how much will Afridi's omission cost them this match? Stupid thing to do, really.

Also looking forward to match 2 in SA. Reckon we'll do a lot better this time (hope, more likely!). Hopefully, it'll be a much closer match this time. But still great to have 2 good Test matches to follow, together for the next few days.

[hothatchaway]

What a talent this Aamer Jamal is! Looked completely at ease and seemed to have oodles of time while playing his shots, never mind that the wicket had eased out, but he certainly won't be batting at number nine any more.

It is a foregone conclusion that Pakistan will lose this game, but good to see them showing some spine. Their management needs to be given the boot; not playing Afridi and Rizwan not being an automatic choice? The team has no hope with such poor selection.