[Geo_Ipe]

Originally Posted by vibbs

No. I am saying the best number 3 needs to be at number 3 than one step down. If you need a number 4 look for one, groom one. It's as simple as that!

I agree with the folk saying Kohli should bat at 3. He is the best batsman we have, he should get the maximum number of overs to face.

I wonder how long this number 4 drama will drag on! Rayudu was doing a decent job before the World Cup, but the selectors went for 3D Vijay Sankar, who has since disappeared off the scene! Shreyas Iyer seems to be the best we have right now in that position. Or, Rahul has to adapt his game to fit himself at 4. Dhawan has been scoring alright, so don't think an opener slot will be available for Rahul anytime soon.

Otherwise, we should start playing Sanju Samson regularly, and groom him into a number 4. I've always believed that he is a better batsman than Pant, he also has a better cricketing brain.

[VWAllstar]

R Sharma
S Dhawan
V Kohli
S Iyer
K L Rahul
S Samson (wk)
H Pandya
Jadeja
Saini
Shami
Bhumrah

This should be the ideal line up I feel. Kuldeep, Chal and Pant are over rated in my opinion. If Hardik keeps his head down then he shall prove to be an effective lower order batsman and give good few overs with exceptional Fielding as a bonus.

I wonder where does my personal fav Bhuvi fit in this line up?

[msdivy]

Originally Posted by NPV

Ind Vs Aus first ODI - probably going to be a big and easy win the way the Aussies are going, now 177/0 in 27 overs with Finch and Warner on 80+ and going great guns.

That was quite a drubbing. Seeing after a long time. Pakistan in Sharjah in late 80s, Sri Lanka in late 90s had this dominant performance.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by vibbs

No. I am saying the best number 3 needs to be at number 3 than one step down. If you need a number 4 look for one, groom one. It's as simple as that!

Yeah and why cannot Kohli be that No. 4? Considering we need someone who has the attacking and holding game there and perhaps he is the best suited to it?

Don't get me wrong, I think Kohli can make far more centuries and probably a bigger impact at 3, but then there are others who can also do the same job at No. 3. There is none like VK at 4, so I suppose its only natural for him to be tried at that number?

PS: I wont read too much into the result. These things happen. A very bad day. 250 was just not good enough - no pressure on the Aussie batsmen really and that how a decent team will play in that scenario.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Yeah and why cannot Kohli be that No. 4? Considering we need someone who has the attacking and holding game there and perhaps he is the best suited to it?

Don't get me wrong, I think Kohli can make far more centuries and probably a bigger impact at 3, but then there are others who can also do the same job at No. 3. There is none like VK at 4, so I suppose its only natural for him to be tried at that number?

Why fix when it is not broken? Kohli is in supreme touch at number 3 in ODIs. He has the game to accelerate of required and also to steady the innings with a run a ball strike rate.

Why not rather look at Rahul as a good finisher? He has the shots, aggression and power to score that 50 off 20ish balls frequently.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

Don't get me wrong, I think Kohli can make far more centuries and probably a bigger impact at 3, but then there are others who can also do the same job at No. 3. There is none like VK at 4, so I suppose its only natural for him to be tried at that number?

PS: I wont read too much into the result. These things happen. A very bad day. 250 was just not good enough - no pressure on the Aussie batsmen really and that how a decent team will play in that scenario.

If the best ODI batsman in the world comes in only at 27th over (like it happened today) and has only 23 overs to play then as an opposition player I would gladly take that .

It's not a question of whether Kohli can adapt at no#4. It's a question of whether anyone else is as influential as Kohli is at no#3.

Dhawan and Rahul were very conservative today. If it was Kohli at #3 then I am sure he would have pushed hard.

By the time Kohli came in at the 27th over today the score was 134 and the match was over by then. We need 350 on a true Mumbai pitch.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Kohli is in supreme touch at number 3 in ODIs. He has the game to accelerate of required and also to steady the innings with a run a ball strike rate.

I agree

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Why not rather look at Rahul as a good finisher? He has the shots, aggression and power to score that 50 off 20ish balls frequently.

I don't agree.

For me, for all the scores he gets, he does not fit the criteria of being the best at any Number. Not the best opener, not the best 3 or 4 or 5. When did he score something like that against any decent opposition? Lets not talk IPL Stats. I am no fan but Dhawan is a better opener (also left handed, which we so dearly need)

So, it again comes down to the team we are playing. If we play Rohit, Dhawan & Rahul, then VK should bat at No 4, that is just logical.

You cannot have it both ways - who is the best at what number and play according to the team. So if we say VK is the best at No. 3 (He Is), so we need to find players who are the best at each positions and give them a go. The ODI WC is still 4 years away - we have the time to build the team.


PS @searacer932

We are all taking hypothetically, so VK could have got out first ball when he came to bat at 3 and we wouldn't even reach 250?

Also, With only 2 wickets down and 23 overs to go, theoretically he could have got the team to atleast 280-290 (split scoring at 6 an over and 8-9 an over towards the end). He failed to do so. That's another way to read it. Isn't that the role of a No. 4/5 ? Would that mean he is not good at 4 or 5 ? He is the best batsman in the world (atleast ODIs), I suppose he should be able to do it.

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

I don't agree.

For me, for all the scores he gets, he does not fit the criteria of being the best at any Number. Not the best opener, not the best 3 or 4 or 5. When did he score something like that against any decent opposition? Lets not talk IPL Stats. I am no fan but Dhawan is a better opener (also left handed, which we so dearly need)

So, it again comes down to the team we are playing. If we play Rohit, Dhawan & Rahul, then VK should bat at No 4, that is just logical.

You cannot have it both ways - who is the best at what number and play according to the team. So if we say VK is the best at No. 3 (He Is), so we need to find players who are the best at each positions and give them a go. The ODI WC is still 4 years away - we have the time to build players.

K L Rahul has played exceptionally well in the last six months. He has scored consistently as an opener and don't see the reason why an ageing Dhawan should be given more chances than him.

Left - Right combination is an old play now, whoever scores better need to play that's all.

Virat and Iyer are good at 3 and 4 and Rohit remains as the fixed opener. Either play Rahul at 5 or 2 or don't play him at all. Making Virat bat at 4 makes no sense to me. It is just like how Sachin was made to play at 4 and the experiment failed miserably.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

K L Rahul has played exceptionally well in the last six months. He has scored consistently as an opener and don't see the reason why an ageing Dhawan should be given more chances than him.

So apparently age is a consideration now? Nice. And Rahul has played 'exceptionally' in the last 6 months?
Here is the stat for the last 12 months (ODIs only)

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

I am sorry, I dont see anything exceptional. 2 Centuries, one against SL and another against WI. If you call that exceptional, I will have to disagree.

Originally Posted by VWAllstar

Left - Right combination is an old play now, whoever scores better need to play that's all.

No it isn't. Check the stats around it (When there is a good left handed bat top order bat). Even today, Rahul bogged down the team, Dhawan was playing his usual game. We can agree to disagree always.

The point is, ofcourse a 2nd rate left handed bat should not replace a right handed bat, just for the heck of it. If Rahul is a better player than Dhawan (which I don't buy right now), then he should be opening, simple.

[searacer932]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

PS @searacer932

We are all taking hypothetically, so VK could have got out first ball when he came to bat at 3 and we wouldn't even reach 250?

Also, With only 2 wickets down and 23 overs to go, theoretically he could have got the team to atleast 280-290 (split scoring at 6 an over and 8-9 an over towards the end). He failed to do so. That's another way to read it. Isn't that the role of a No. 4/5 ? Would that mean he is not good at 4 or 5 ? He is the best batsman in the world (atleast ODIs), I suppose he should be able to do it.

He could get out for zero the first ball he faces or he could play like you said and take the score to 280-290 but ask yourself if that's the best utilization of your best batsman? Any opposing captain would gladly have Kohli bat at #4 than at #3.

You have a turbo car and you bring it to the race after half of the race is over

[VWAllstar]

Originally Posted by pratyush6

So apparently age is a consideration now? Nice. And Rahul has played 'exceptionally' in the last 6 months?
Here is the stat for the last 12 months (ODIs only)

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/eng...;type=allround

I am sorry, I dont see anything exceptional. 2 Centuries, one against SL and another against WI. If you call that exceptional, I will have to disagree.




No it isn't. Check the stats around it (When there is a good left handed bat top order bat). Even today, Rahul bogged down the team, Dhawan was playing his usual game. We can agree to disagree always.

The point is, ofcourse a 2nd rate left handed bat should not replace a right handed bat, just for the heck of it. If Rahul is a better player than Dhawan (which I don't buy right now), then he should be opening, simple.

Dhawan is 34 and Rahul is 27/28. Rahul has shown exceptional improvement over the last six months. Dhawan is a hit or miss player. I don't personally think he has the best technique or the skill required to play in the middle overs.

Considering the next world cup, we don't want Dhawan to keep injuring himself or worse be on verge of retirement and there is no match practice for another opener. I agree WC is far away but learning from the mistake from recently concluded one we should start planning early.

If you may compare stats of Dhawan during the last 12 months then they too look mediocre. Currently he has kept his place and hope he continues to score well because his early stroke play lets Rohit settle down.

[anb]

Like the world cup matches in 2019, K L Rahul again failed to rotate the strike in middle overs and run rate dropped below 5. Kohli should have batted at number 3 position.

[landcruiser123]

I guess just a rare bad day at the office for batting. It’s the bowling I’m concerned about. Kul-Cha aren’t very effective, neither is Shardul.

I wouldn’t be complaining about anything in Australia chased this target in 45 overs after losing 4 wickets, but their batsmen gave Indian bowlers a proper drubbing.

[NPV]

Originally Posted by landcruiser123

Kul-Cha aren’t very effective, neither is Shardul.

They're not playing together much now, so the Kul-Cha combo is almost gone, it's just one of them now, only Kuldeep played yesterday's game.

I don't know if Hardik Pandya's absence (all rounder) is causing so much confusion from a team selection perspective.

[harry10]

Selection issues are again rampant.
Based on form Saini should have played instead of pie chucker Shardul.
Chahal is a much better ODI bowler than Kuldeep.
Kohli should never ever leave no.3 position.
Dhawan is pastt his prime now. Look at the way warner starts the innings and then compare dhawan with him and he is no where near. This isn't the nineties where 80 odd is good enough for first 20 overs. Now a days 300+ score is minimum and for that we need quick starters where dhawan fails miserably. It's time for Rahul to be given a long rope as an opener.
Hopefully corrections will be made for next match.