[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by engrohit

On the point of excellent pricing for Ecosport, a 4 seater at 10.15 Lakhs OTR for Titanium (D) in Mumbai, how does that sound VFM?

Everyone seems to be comparing the Ecosport prices with Duster and saying, Wow that's cheaper by 2 lakhs or whatever.
But essentially a hatch on steroids, seating compulsorily 4 people for more than a million bucks??

Give that a thought while I go and check Dictionary for VFM

As per you, everything running in India is overpriced (I agree with you).
Do check the OTR prices of cars like Polo, i20 and Amaze,Dzire. EcoSport will obviously be more costlier to manufacture than these.

Coming to Duster, We all know its a Logan on steroids. It surely has compromized rear leg room in order to give that huge boot space.

Also I dont really agree with your take on EcoSport being a 4 seater. Rear bench is comparable with that of i20,Amaze, Swift,Figo. So if all of them are claiming as 5 seaters, Why not Ecosport ? We cant assume that family buying EcoSport will all be overweight and hence only 4 can fit

[Unbranded]

Voted for ecosports for the following
- Features at the pricepoint whether its safety/convenience.
- Availabilty of an A/T.

Space was not a criteria - but Duster is only slightly better than ecosports with respect to space at the back, and the aircon vent there doesnt make it any better for duster. For me both are quasi SUVs and till now Duster was on roll in the absence of a creditable competition.

Lets revisit this poll after 2 months and see how it has panned out.

PS> Renault definitely got greedy over the year and duster seems to bear the brunt of everyone, more so because of Renault Indias attitude than for the competency of the vehicle.

[coolboy007]

Originally Posted by engrohit

On the point of excellent pricing for Ecosport, a 4 seater at 10.15 Lakhs OTR for Titanium (D) in Mumbai, how does that sound VFM?

So that means to guage VFM, all we have to check is how many people can a car seat? According to this logic the XUV being a 7 seater should be way more VFM than a Duster being a 5 seater now that both the cars cost almost the same, the XUV doesnt even look small and has tons of space every where.

The Polo TSI is a 4 seater and costs almost 9.5 lakhs, i20 costs 9 lakhs and even it can seat 4 people so both are overpriced. If seating people were the main criteria then all should buy a Scorpio or Safari.

Where does Duster stand in front of a XUV (not comparing to Ecosport as you say they are from different segments because duster can seat 5), its small, no features, has 2 seats less, way less space, poor feature list and non existent service network). It still sells more than XUV right? So seating 5 people or seating 7 people is not aam junta's priority, for people VFM is a host of other factors.

The Ecosport may be a hatch on steeroids but then its atleast priced like one, the duster isnt a full blown suv either with its fair share of negatives but is it priced like one, its going bang into the xuv territory. Lets see how many people spend that 3 L on the car just because its little bigger and can seat "5" adults.

[abirnale]

This could be slight repetition of what we all already know but i think it would be appropriate for me to also mention why i voted against EcoSport. And here it is -

1. Look wise far better than Duster but quality of material used for interiors is not good at all. Anything that is outside is for people to enjoy - includes scratching as well as turning heads! Anything that is inside is for me and passengers.
2. Seems like without top end model, all others seem very basic. maybe having used a sedan for long, this wasn't able to impress me.
3. The gaps in plastic cladding on the sides, real wheel well kept me thinking that every time there is a repair associated with them, i will pay from my pocket. Insurance wont cover me. And by the way, the real wheel well is covered with some material that when touched feels like carpet! I don't know how it will take our muddy, puddled pot holed road.
4. Pricing wise, it makes a lot of sense but having seen how my SX4 rattles after 35K Kms, i have no hopes that low quality plastics will hold good for as long as i will use the vehicle (if at all).

I test drove the Duster long ago, but with today's ES TD experience, it feels as if they are two different things altogether and may not be worth comparing. Reason - for someone like me who is looking for second car for urban commute for family members, this may be still worth for something around 7lakh. But I personally didn't like it's first impression...

I think its the VFM proposition of the Ford Motors that will still attract the buyers. With so many positive reviews in the media, it has also added the arrogance to dealer's behavior. A gentleman who had booked the car was waiting for the test drive for very long and staff was offering test drive to everyone but him :( Poor soul had to fight with them and say i am canceling the booking.

[vb-saan]

I wish Skoda notice this mad rush for small crossovers in India (Duster last year, and now the Ecosport). They can actually think of discontinuing the current 4x2 variant (110ps)of the Yeti, and launch a couple of new FWD variants with the 1.2TSI and 1.6 TDI (petrol and diesel respectively). It can easily overlap the current price range of the Duster. The 1.2 TSI may look small on paper, but actually is quite a popular option for the Yeti worldwide, especially with the 7-speed DSG.

[ahmad.007]

Originally Posted by engrohit

On the point of excellent pricing for Ecosport, a 4 seater at 10.15 Lakhs OTR for Titanium (D) in Mumbai, how does that sound VFM?

Everyone seems to be comparing the Ecosport prices with Duster and saying, Wow that's cheaper by 2 lakhs or whatever.
But essentially a hatch on steroids, seating compulsorily 4 people for more than a million bucks??

Give that a thought while I go and check Dictionary for VFM

Now this is getting a little bit annoying, no offence brother, but ES is not a 4 seater, not as bad as being depicted. I checked it out myself, the rear is better than Vento, Dzire, Polo, Micra, etc. The added height and lumbar & thigh support works out very well. I am 5'8" with a little bit longer than average legs and I was completely at home at the rear bench. Only if you throw in 3 healthy 6 footers of African origin you will feel lack of adequate width. Even then it would not be so uncomfortable.

[nilanjanray]

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Just 1 point based on the SUV traits. By the claim and the statement above, duster is more of an SUV than EcoSport then? But in reality it isn't and that's a shame. At 200mm GC, the EcoSport has 550mm water wading capability (useful for cities where rains cause flood havoc). Pity the so called larger 'suv' duster is only capable of 350mm, having 205mm GC.. Some trait.

Point is both vehicles are not SUVs and just be claiming to be bigger, the current Duster doesn't become an SUV. Get that right. People are lining up to buy the EcoSport simply because it's more vfm and practical than any other mini-suv.

Tongue in cheek comment: you seem to be rather passionate about this debate, for someone who is impartial and indifferent .

Anyway, thanks for sharing the photos and some of the specs. I happen to own one of those 'real' suvs (a 4WD Fortuner) as you call them, and have no interest in buying either of these two, so my observation is superficial (I admit) - based on looks, peering inside the vehicles to gauge space, and
thinking of the AWD version of the Duster (maybe I should have clarified).

I like the looks of the Duster - looks like a mini Fortuner from the front (yes, I am biased ). But I am surprised to know of the low wading depth for the Duster - that is rather low for a vehicle that sells well across the world in AWD avatar. The Ford's is rather impressive for this class of a vehicle.

Unfortunately, not too many people venture offroad in India, but given the state of roads - if you venture away from the main/nice highways - these vehicles are much needed. I do hope that they have built them tougher (suspension etc.) than the sedans and hatchbacks, even if they are 'SUVs' just in positioning.

[ahmad.007]

Originally Posted by vb-san

I wish Skoda notice this mad rush for small crossovers in India (Duster last year, and now the Ecosport). They can actually think of discontinuing the current 4x2 variant (110ps)of the Yeti, and launch a couple of new FWD variants with the 1.2TSI and 1.6 TDI (petrol and diesel respectively). It can easily overlap the current price range of the Duster. The 1.2 TSI may look small on paper, but actually is quite a popular option for the Yeti worldwide, especially with the 7-speed DSG.

The Yeti never struck me as a SUV c. Its a good car, but I dont think even a facelift could save it. And with VW pressing on tarnishing Skoda's brand image and the ASS of Skoda, its highly unlikely that Skoda can make a comeback in sub 10 lakh market.
PS- I am eagerly waiting for the new Octavia, that car has massive potential, only if Skoda prices it sensibly and gives us features.

[ACM]

Actually while we are at it let me put in a combination of stuff that the EcoSport has that no other vehicle has.

Looks may be subjective so not talking about that.
Features too can be added at times (like satnav, reverse camera, parking sensors as in the EcoSport through accessories.) so lets forget that as well.
Interior - Take any of this size car to a really good Leather upholstery guy and in less than at the most 40K one has great interior so let us leave that aspect aside as well for now.

But 1) 550 mm water wading capacity - One cannot add that and this beats the Safari Storme, Scorpio and Duster by a big margin and matches the Fortuner and Pajero.
2) The AT Box Let us leave aside the diesel and ecoboost engines stuff for now. But as we know a lot of the folks buying a Fortuner today buy the AT and pass on the AWD since the AWD is not available on the AT. The Fortuner AT is a 5 speed standard technology think and think more before you shift gears box. The EcoSport has a 6Speed DSG AT box. One cannot image the fuel efficiency of say the Fortuner if it was a Petrol AT considering the type of AT and the wt of the vehicle. But in the EcoSport it is expected to be quite reasonable and fast shifting.

So what? the Laura, Jetta, Superb too have this DSG Box - But the Price? Reported Reliability? and Ground Clearance? Nope there is really nothing else that matches the GC + DSG AT requirement. The Yeti never came with this though Skoda has the technology.

Yet the AT will account for less than 5% of the bookings for sure.

Just stating facts no real point there to be made.

[k_ajay]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

Tongue in cheek comment: you seem to be rather passionate about this debate, for someone who is impartial and indifferent .

Anyway, thanks for sharing the photos and some of the specs. I happen to own one of those 'real' suvs (a 4WD Fortuner) as you call them, and have no interest in buying either of these two, so my observation is superficial (I admit) - based on looks, peering inside the vehicles to gauge space, and
thinking of the AWD version of the Duster (maybe I should have clarified).

I like the looks of the Duster - looks like a mini Fortuner from the front (yes, I am biased ). But I am surprised to know of the low wading depth for the Duster - that is rather low for a vehicle that sells well across the world in AWD avatar. The Ford's is rather impressive for this class of a vehicle.

Unfortunately, not too many people venture offroad in India, but given the state of roads - if you venture away from the main/nice highways - these vehicles are much needed. I do hope that they have built them tougher (suspension etc.) than the sedans and hatchbacks, even if they are 'SUVs' just in positioning.

Haha. Better to be passionate about something than be lifeless about everything, no?

Just wanted to present some facts when people want to pass unverified comments on a product because they own the competing product.. Wonder how many of those claiming EcoSport is not good/vfm even sat in one..

The duster AWD may be a great car but it isn't what is selling in India. World over everyone knows the Dacia is a cheap, budget brand but Renault was just milking indian customers because of lack of direct competetion. What is so better about this product then? (that's all sir).

[nilanjanray]

I

Originally Posted by ACM

Actually while we are at it let me put in a combination of stuff that the EcoSport has that no other vehicle has.

Looks may be subjective so not talking about that.
Features too can be added at times (like satnav, reverse camera, parking sensors as in the EcoSport through accessories.) so lets forget that as well.
Interior - Take any of this size car to a really good Leather upholstery guy and in less than at the most 40K one has great interior so let us leave that aspect aside as well for now.

But 1) 550 mm water wading capacity - One cannot add that and this beats the Safari Storme, Scorpio and Duster by a big margin and matches the Fortuner and Pajero.
2) The AT Box Let us leave aside the diesel and ecoboost engines stuff for now. But as we know a lot of the folks buying a Fortuner today buy the AT and pass on the AWD since the AWD is not available on the AT. The Fortuner AT is a 5 speed standard technology think and think more before you shift gears box. The EcoSport has a 6Speed DSG AT box. One cannot image the fuel efficiency of say the Fortuner if it was a Petrol AT considering the type of AT and the wt of the vehicle. But in the EcoSport it is expected to be quite reasonable and fast shifting.

Just stating facts no real point there to be made.

The Fortuner has 700mm wading depth. Though I don't usually care to test it out unless I have to - water is bad for all vehicles, including the LCs, Patrols and G-Wagens.

I don't think the Fortuner and the Ecpsport would be in the same consideration set.

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Haha. Better to be passionate about something than be lifeless about everything, no?

Just wanted to present some facts when people want to pass unverified comments on a product because they own the competing product.. Wonder how many of those claiming EcoSport is not good/vfm even sat in one..

The duster AWD may be a great car but it isn't what is selling in India. World over everyone knows the Dacia is a cheap, budget brand but Renault was just milking indian customers because of lack of direct competetion. What is so better about this product then? (that's all sir).

Cool.

Btw, my take: if Maruti had launched the AWD SX4 hatch (diesel) 1 year back - with some bells and whistles - it would have hurt Renault's and Ford's plans big time. AWD, Suzuki's reliability, the ASC coverage...I sometimes wonder about the quality of strategic planning and marketing folks in the auto companies.

[abirnale]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

if Maruti had launched the AWD SX4 hatch (diesel) 1 year back - with some bells and whistles - it would have hurt Renault's and Ford's plans big time. AWD, Suzuki's reliability, the ASC coverage...

ditto.. I had the same thing my mind and hearing x-alpha few years ago, it wasn't bad at all to expect it either. Moreover, having SX4 initial version of 190mm clearance, the cross-over with old Baleno-Altura/ Indigo-Marina kind of body style would have done great too. (Oh btw, sorry for this OT.)

[trinadha]

It would be silly to compare Ecosport with Duster both are different vehicles.Size wise its a total different one,IMHO i feel its like comparing German Shepherd with a Labrador both are different.
Duster really needs more improvement on the interiors though.

[pgsagar]

Originally Posted by nilanjanray

I

I don't think the Fortuner and the Ecpsport would be in the same consideration set.

You are right. But what ACM meant, I think, was that the pricey Fortuner comes with conventional Torque Converter(TC) AT whereas Ecosport comes with lightning quick (compared to TC/CVT gear-boxes) AT. None of the Japanese cars have DCT or DSG. They are still stuck with TCs and CVTs. Don't know why. TC/CVTs do not transmit all the power to the wheels like DSGs and DCTs do. I recently drove a 3L AT Accord and I wondered where were all the horses hiding. This car makes 225 BHP but felt a lot slower. It is about time Japanese learnt from Europeans. If Lauras and VW GT TSI Polos are any indication, I 'm sure Ecosport will be a scorcher. Now, the only problem is, Ford appears to be clueless as to when they will launch AT.

[revmaxx]

EcoSport has made all manufacturers to sit up and scratch their heads in disbelief. It has got the potential to poach customers across segments, be it hatches, sedans or uv's. A cat in the midst of pigeons with a starting price bang in the middle of B segment. The spoil sports are the dealers who are ill equipped to handle this situation, whether its showroom or workshop. The last I heard is a dealer charging 10000 Rs for transportation.