[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by RijuC

So, the query is- am I too much fussy about small/ minute issues? Or my concerns are also felt by other members here?

Let me share my thoughts as a Harrier owner. Touchwood I am still not experiencing any of the issues shared by many Harrier owners.

Yes the knee touching dashboard is there but I have adjusted my seat in order to avoid this and its working well. Rest of the concerns I would say is more like mind games. I do see the thick A pillar but I work around it by slowing down (I do sorely miss the 360 camera like the one in Seltos which also detects the blind spot). Rest of the issues highlighted aren't the deal breakers.

Having said that, the feeling I personally get when I am inside the cabin is something totally different.

[motorworks]

XUV700 AX7 Diesel AT Vs Jeep Compass Petrol AT Longitude.

Well, I wish there were many more options to choose from, but in spite of so many new cars being launched all the time, the options are still too few.

Quick context, We have two cars at home, both Hyundais, a 2018 Creta 1.6 Diesel Manual SX, and a 2018 Elite i20 Petrol manual. The Creta has about 27k on the ODO, while the Elite i20, well, sounds funny, but just 7k! That’s because my wife uses the car only for dropping my son to school and due to covid, my son hasn’t been going to school and the i20 has just been relegated to some weekend chores.

So why change is the big question. Well, two reasons, the main reason is the stressful Bangalore Traffic, I drive about 2 hours and more every day, just covering 30kms and at times it’s just absolutely hard on the left leg. With both my cars being manual ( I wish I had bought one AT way back in 2018), there is no respite in sight.

Initially, I thought about selling the i20 and buying a small automatic. But there are just no decent ATs under 10-12 lakhs. There is the Amaze CVT, or probably the Renault kiger CVT, else it’s just AMTs. I even briefly contemplated on stretching out to the Honda City V CVT, but I’m not sure about a low riding sedan in the pothole ridden roads of Bangalore. I’m a little bit inclined to still sell the i20, I feel the 1st Gen Creta is a reasonably well built car and with the difference in resale between the two cars being just around 4-5 lakhs, I feel retaining the Creta would be a better choice. Plus, I have really spent a lot on the car, with a new Pioneer HU, 235 profile Geolandar tyres etc.

The other reason for looking out for a new car, well, it’s just that 4-5 year cycle when you want something new. I have always switched cars at the 5th or 6th year, so the current timeline is a bit early.

After a lot of deliberation, I decided that I would buy a new car only if it was a true upgrade. No point in buying stand-by cars and then looking out for something new again in a few years. My budget is around 25-28 lakhs, it has to be an AT and preferably diesel. I went for a quick test drive on the Safari and I was really disappointed. It just felt so unfinished, the steering was so heavy, and the car just didn’t feel well put together end to end. While on the other hand the XUV700 diesel AT was just on a different level. It was very good in almost all aspects. I also took a test drive of the new Scorpio-N and decided its not for me, there is still a fair amount of movement in the 2nd row.

The last of the test drives was the Jeep Compass petrol AT and I would say the Jeep Compass has a bit of snob value, seems like it’s interiors are from one segment above. But in terms of features, the AX7 diesel AT trumps the compass, with ADAS etc, although it’s not a big deal for me.

My main issue is that the Jeep Compass
Petrol would deliver really bad fuel efficiency, and a 30km daily drive would cost me around Rs.400 in fuel expenses, whereas the Diesel XUV700 could end costing me less than Rs.250.

And the Diesel XUV700 AX7 AT costs just around 28 lakhs on road, Bangalore whereas the Longitude Petrol AT costs about 31 lakhs! Even if Jeep offers some discounts etc, there would be still a massive 2.5 lakhs difference between the two and then comes the issue of higher fuel expenses in the Compass.

Hence the right choice would be the XUV700. I can wait for one year, no problem. Just that my left knee won’t thank me for that, but I guess that’s ok, I’m just 41 years old, so it’s not like I need the AT tomorrow. But what is the flip side to the XUV700? For one, the prices can increase, I wouldn’t be surprised if I ended up paying at least 30 lakhs by the time I get the car next year. Second, the XUV700 is going to get just so common and it would rob one of a certain exclusivity. It’s not a deciding factor, but I remember when I had the Rapid ( 2012 to 2018), my car would always seem so fresh and a bit exclusive amongst the sea of Honda Citys!

And Oh come on! Who am I kidding! I love the Jeep Compass, just the way it looks! I don’t think the XUV700 tugs my heart emotionally. But the difference in the initial cost and plus the higher fuel expense is really holding me back. And my mind tells me that the XUV700 is the right choice, I can wait, so no problem with the waiting period, it does have a really good engine and gear box, its a Mahindra, so servicing would be a lot easier, and plus the XUV700 is going to fetch much better resale value 6-7 years down the line than the Jeep Compass. It seems like right logical choice.

I’m doing another back to back test drives of both the cars tomorrow and then see if I’m able to make up my mind.

Your feedback and suggestions would be great to hear!

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by motorworks

I’m doing another back to back test drives of both the cars tomorrow and then see if I’m able to make up my mind.

Your feedback and suggestions would be great to hear!

Sit in the back seat as well while you are at it

My friend who booked the XUV in October last year is getting it this month! No extra motivation was needed, just looking at what else is on offer for the money was enough.

The case for Jeep compass now is if you want a premium branded & priced small crossover which is as practical as a Creta. Its a niche market in our country.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by JKBKS

... But a sort of habit that I have developed over last few years is in trying to find a value in big purchases and that's what is complicating things now. ...And Karnataka is yet to start offering BH series for private sector employees. Since a court case is on,...

I am also eyeing Tucson as it could be last pure ICE purchase, as you rightly pointed out. It's a little expensive and thus not a good value per me but it sure is a great car in terms of refinement, safety and driving. And I might put my value buying instincts aside for a moment if I could figure out the BH plate problem

I hear you, mate. I have tended to look for value even for smaller things. At times, it makes life painful, yet delightful at other times.

Tucson would be way more refined than the XUV700, I expect. A friend who has bought one is really happy with it, as are most on the Tucson thread (@lordrayden's and @Tony's posts caught my attention in particular, due to the detail and points of view shared). It is built to international standards and would have much more invested in terms of product development too. CBU would jack up prices, as it does seem to have with the price reveal - kind of hard to see value in it now. However, where value might lie is in the outgoing model, if you can find one and one at a good discount. Not sure how likely finding one might be, thought, especially in diesel which is the engine to go for in a Tucson. If you can at a good price, you might not want to wait for the BH issue - and I would not be surprised at hearing about Bangalore-Himachal/Uttrakhand trips in it

Originally Posted by RijuC

1. Knee rubbing against central console wall,
2. A-pillar view obstruction,
3. Reliability concern- ...
4. The TD car didn't age well ...
5. Switchgears and parking brake release button...
6. Noisy cabin...

1. Can be improved by seat adjustment.
2. I didn't face any issues in my multiple drives, as I am used to shuffling a bit forwards and backwards to avoid blind spots. (The SX4 used to be a pain though). Over time, depending on one's spacial cognition, one might not face much of an issue.
3. It is there for most. Check the thread of XUV700, Jeep etc. Many more Harriers+Safaris have been sold, and many are much older than the XUV700 etc, so expect more complaints. There also seems to be a general bias against Tats, which gets more flack for it's failings when other's get a free pass (imagine AC cooling and rattle complaints in a Jeep Compass - many of them- with it's price).
4. Tata cars often have an issue with aging in terms of NVH.
5. Half-expected in VFM Indian cars. Lately, even in others.
6. It is rather noisy. (reported in my second round of TD)

1, 4, 6 are the issues I have with this car, which has so much else to love in it. Excellent suspension and feel. Communicative steering. Lower Centre of Gravity than competition. Composure.

I expect this to be way more stable than the Scorpio-N (which has a stated high Roll-Centre) and likely even significantly more than the XUV700.

PS: @shancz: I haven't forgotten the reply to your post

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Sit in the back seat as well while you are at it

My friend who booked the XUV in October last year is getting it this month! No extra motivation was needed, just looking at what else is on offer for the money was enough.

The case for Jeep compass now is if you want a premium branded & priced small crossover which is as practical as a Creta. Its a niche market in our country.

I took another test drive of the XUV700 Diesel AT earlier this morning. I don’t know if it’s because of the bad maintenance by the dealer, but the car did not feel good when I went over some bad roads. It was like as if the steering column had given up or like a rack and pinion failure. The executive kept stating that the vehicle is due for service etc, but at just 17k on the ODO of the test drive car, it just felt like it didn’t really age well. Now, I don’t know if this issue is specific to this demo car, but this is my 2nd test drive of the XUV700 and I didn’t really feel it be so bad in the first time around.

Also, I always make it a point to test drive all the cars in the same stretch, so that you can really make out the difference. And I can tell you that the Jeep Compass felt far better in this route that I had taken, a mix of really bad city roads and a lot of potholes and speed breakers that I encounter on a daily basis. My wife also felt that she didn’t feel so much of movement in the 2nd row of the compass when compared to the XUV700.

So going against the popular opinion here, but the compass is the much better overall car.
And for some weird reason I just felt that the DCT box in the compass was really good! Whereas most feedback I hear is otherwise! Am I the odd one out? Or am I getting my test drive observations wrong?

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by motorworks

So going against the popular opinion here, but the compass is the much better overall car.
And for some weird reason I just felt that the DCT box in the compass was really good! Whereas most feedback I hear is otherwise! Am I the odd one out? Or am I getting my test drive observations wrong?

Test drives are important, you know what meets your expectations better than anyone else. If Compass felt like the better car , you should go for it.

There is an element of doubt, that is your instincts - must give it some thought. Are you getting the best or the best in isolation?

https://youtu.be/SsEFOH7KP-Q

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by motorworks

I took another test drive of the XUV700 Diesel AT earlier this morning. I don’t know if it’s because of the bad maintenance by the dealer, but the car did not feel good when I went over some bad roads. ...

Mate, had noticed similar in the early days of the XUV700 and reported on this thread - page 1 - :

Originally Posted by Poitive

EDIT: Mahindra XUV Test Drive added below.
....
Toward the end, we pass over a small pothole at a lowish speed. Felt highly disproportionately rough - felt it a lot more than one should. I’m surprised; very surprised. Take a U-turn and go over it again. Same result. Further down, going though some internal roads, find some which are broken. Not the crater kinds but with 2”-4” of unevenness. The ride suddenly feels bad. Shockingly bad, considering how it otherwise was at higher speeds. From a heavy vehicle moving over unevenness with aplomb, it was like a baby lost in a temple (exaggeration). A good chance that it is a very good suspension, but not tuned rightly. Just having a ‘type’ of suspension isn’t enough. Even the old Accent and Tata Indigo (even Indica, IIRC) had an independent suspension – they couldn’t touch the Optra’s ride with a barge pole. I really do hope Mahindra can improve on this (I’ll volunteer to give my inputs, Mr. Mahindra ). This one deserves it...

Mahindra XUV700 - Summary
.....

• Disappointing low speed ride (questionable city comfort?). Good highish speed ride and control. FSD Mulitilink needs better tuning?
  ......
• Eventually felt like a 75% worked out body with a fantastic engine, with a yet to be fine-tuned suspension.

The reports on the first page might be useful; also the second round of TD with the NVH part.

Later, one saw the suspension issue being mentioned by many. By now, one can call it a well-known issue with the XUV700.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

...Are you getting the best or the best in isolation? ...

I too was surprised to see how the Compass fared when I saw the video a couple of months back, mate, and was even more surprised that it was a Trailhawk! On thinking further, realized that the only other form the list available in India was the CKD Tucson at a much higher price.

Further, had said this:

Originally Posted by Poitive

Scorpio-N
....
I hope someone also does a door test to check the chassis flex when one is able to drive it off-road. It would be a valuable indicator of how it would age on poor roads.

Despite the many off-road "tests" of the Scorpio-N reported across the Youtube and social media space, did not really did not see anyone do this door-test to check chassis flex. Had the Scorpio N been good on this parameter, I really would have expected Mahindra to exercise it's influence on the influencers (which doesn't sewm insignificant) to demonstrate this. Based on that, I suspect that the Scorpio N would not do well in this test, despite being a BoF with 81% high strength steel chassis - a bit surprising for me, as the other "Mahindra" with the 81% HSS chassis - the Ssangyong Rexton - did do well in the same test by the same reviewer on the same track.

The above also makes it seem unlikely that the unibody XUV700 would do well in this chassis flex text. This is the part which the Compass lacked significantly over the others, so might not really be a determining factor in the Compass-XUV700 comparison.

Originally Posted by motorworks

XUV700 AX7 Diesel AT Vs Jeep Compass Petrol AT Longitude.
....
Your feedback and suggestions would be great to hear!

Besides the factors already mentioned by you, also worth considering:

• Which company you'd like to be with. Jeep's longevity in India would be more of a concern as compared to Mahindra. (check Jeep TD for more points).
• Mahindra might have more niggles, but who knows! Jeep thread too reports many.
• Jeep repairs are likely to cost a lot. There is a thread on clutch repairs cost on the forum.
• Jeep's cabin is way smaller than the XUV700, however is also a more city-friendly size.
• The XUV700 has an excellent and very powerful engine. Jeep is only adequate, especially in petrol.
• Compass feels like a more finished product, whereas the XUV700 is a bit like one released in a hurry.
• Driving wise, to me, the XUV700 felt like a "senior-Compass" without that excellent implementation of the EPS on the Compass, with the XUV700's being a mismatch for the vehicle. Contrary to popular choice, I love the HPS steering on the Harrier/Safari/Kicks (Some thoughts on HPS vs EPS here)
• I expect the XUV700 to be more comfortable for most people, except the reported suspension issue which crops up in certain conditions.
• Safety ratings.

There might be several other points touched upon in the thread, in case you're inclined towards a long read.

Had you been comparing the Diesel Compass, it would be a tough call, but with this comparison, and you being okay to wait, despite the expected hike in prices the XUV700 might be the better choice. However, since your heart is on the Compass it becomes difficult.

I too really wanted the Compass (diesel MT), and was on the verge of handing over the cheque (partly also because it was available without a wait), but with time wearing off the emotional surge, that is the only one I have been quite clearly been able to rule out of my list, as for my purpose (a large cabin is highly preferred, as is an HPS) I find the Harrier a better bet than the Compass; also that they have comparably poor NVH.

[fergus]

A very well written thread, researched in detail and lots of test drive experiences shared by Poitive. Thank you .I am also searching for a new car/SUV. Currently we have a Corolla which is due for renewal and an Alto K10 AGS for in city commute. Monthly mileage of both vehicle combined put together do not exceed 1000 km with a yearly trip of 2400 km. Hence did not consider Diesel, electric or hybrid options. The big boot of our Corolla has been well used during out station trips with 4 members. Due to the bad road conditions specially in the ghats I am searching for a vehicle with a Good ground clearance, hence looking additionally at an SUV. Have done the TD of the Honda City 5th Generation Petrol and the ride felt plush but worried about the low ground clearance. Same experience with the Slavia 1.0 Style which was also a very spirited ride. Tried the Taigun and the Kushaq 1.0 Petrol and liked the ground clearance, suspension and the features. Drove the Nexon petrol but rear sitting felt cramped. Not a big fan of gizmos but want the car to have a good safety rating. Dead pedal, climate control and cruise control which is a boon on long trips.Confused with the options. Any inputs or guidance would be welcome.

[dr_TJ]

Maybe not the right thread to post this

I currently own a Thar Diesel AT Hardtop, I was looking at the Scorpio-N Z4 Diesel AT as a replacement for Thar. But I have a pretty short daily commute of 15-20 kms a day. Weekend drives of 70-100 kms mostly or sometimes more.
Have also added Grand Vitara Mild Hybrid to the mix now for more confusion.
Have already booked the Scorpio-N Z4 D AT at introductory price and delivery date is between 10th January to 9th February 2023. Have also booked a Grand Vitara Zeta AT (Mild Hybrid).

I desperately need some serious help.

Do I actually replace the Thar with the ScorpioN Z4 or a Grand Vitara. Or keep the Thar and get a Hatchback for my daily commutes like Ignis or WagonR.

Or wait for some concrete news on the Jimny 5 door to add to the mix and get more confused?

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

I desperately need some serious help.

Short answer ; You don't.

If you know your use case, a Thar and a ScorpioN are completely different. Completely chalk & cheese / apples & oranges comparison.

One can seat 2 in decent comfort, one can seat 4 & a kid.

[Poitive]

Warning: At least parts below are a rant!
(allowing myself such, with fellow mates)
----------------------------------------------

@shancz: Picking up this conversation after the long pause coming up with the launch of the Scorpio-N - quite an attention grabber, it has been!

MG Hector and more

Originally Posted by shancz

Ditto, the feeling is mutual and definitely worth the learnings.


1. Now that you've said it I do agree for it being overhyped in mass market cars and especially now when gizmos and bling sell better than sound basics and mechanicals.
The Hector seems to be an embodiment of this and to an extent the Korean twins ...

2. Towards the Japanese
I am coming across more and more "what car" posts on TBHP where a fuss-free ownership is one of the necessary points.

2b.You should definitely check out the HYRyder and the Grand Vitara (2022 Maruti Grand Vitara to debut on July 20 | Pre-bookings open)(20th July).

1: They increasingly do. I guess that is also to do with the shorter lifespan for cars now. In another 2 decades, might start to somewhat resemble use-and-throw electronic products!

1,2: The Japanese (or Asian, rather) seems so true! Reliable cars take good engineering to make; especially in lower budgets. Japanese have done exceedingly well in that, with Hyundai+Kia taking a cue and became Japanese-minus cars, with them gradually shedding that minus tag. MG seems to be following in line - there are very few complaints about Hectors as compared to other SUVs.

Germans do excel in other aspects, but are probably lesser suited to our conditions - especially if one is looking towards long-term reliability.

2b: The specs of the Grand Vitara and Hyrider have kept me away from even considering them seriously. If it was to be a sheer mind decision devoid of emotions, I could seriously look at them; but hey, this might well be the last decade to really enjoy a good meaty turbo-diesel and don't want to give up the chance, so letting these pass. While they might be good from-the-head choices, I doubt I would enjoy them as much as, say, even the Hector.

Tata Harrier

Originally Posted by shancz

3. Agree starting with the looks, highway manners, ambience. Interestingly I saw another ownership review on DDS where the owner mentioned the knee-console issue in the Safari, he said that since he got an automatic it wasn't much of an issue but if he had to take the manual he wouldn't get it. So TML have to really find a solution for this, I am not sure why/how did their test drivers/QC personnel didn't complain.

Though I managed a better seating position later, it was a compromise, and it really does surprise me as to how such things are not done right in a company with a legacy of Tata, and for a flagship product. This happened under the watch of the much talked about Pratap Bose! It is all very well to build interesting shapes etc, but not getting such basics right is unpardonable.

Mahindra XUV700

Agree, for a normal use-case the Harrier makes more sense to me too. The maintenance charges are atrocious,...

Especially after the launch of the XUV700, I find that the Harrier is not appreciated enough. It is a very enjoyable vehicle to drive, but like a Tata, it does some things rather well and some rather poorly. This is one vehicle I relate to - hard to let go, and hard to accept sorta thing.

8a. Yes, your TD experience was an eye-opener and only post that I started hearing about the "suspension noise" or in fact anything wrong with the XUV700.

That Mahindra managed to get people to talk only good about it shows the kind of influence car companies have on the overall narrative. There are 'professional' companies who charge a lot to build the right kind of hype, after all.

In the video above (12:30) they too speak about the "suspension noise" and some "issue with the suspension" which gets dismissed as "noise". I am not sure if this is because the issue wasn't investigated enough or a deliberate wash over.

The surprising part also is how such things are easily gotten away with! We are yet to mature - not just as a car market, but also as ones who can review and critique cars properly.

Absolutely, I only watch DDS for seating position, because at 6'4" he comes closest your frame.

Once again, I appreciate your interest and the time you've put in, mate

Originally Posted by shancz

IIRC someone(maybe FortNine on YouTube) had mentioned that they get their "briefs" with keywords to repeat so they get etched in viewers memory subconsciously. Just watch all the popular reviewers back to back after any launch and the words will be easy to spot. These days I just watch the ones that are more entertaining or have a honest track record since I started watching.
OT :
If you haven't do watch :
Credits to Providers : FortNine

That was a very good video. What you and he said tallies so much with what one can observe. In some senses, it is like setting the narrative in a certain direction, and building enough of a momentum for a certain set of views get propagated. Few have the understanding, skill, interest, time and will, to look beyond all that an make their own assessment. It is here where platforms such as T-Bhp allow enthusiasts (not just 'car buyer's market' like places) play a significant role.

Its the most interesting, unique and probably the longest car hunt I have come across, ever. What makes it special is that your requirements are quite simple, sound basics but all the modern car manufacturers have fallen short of, even up to 30 lakhs!

Haha, I can feel the value of money slipping right under my feet! I miss the Optra Magnum, which was old-school even a decade ago when it was bought - the trend had already started then. Much on that in the Choosing a Spacious Diesel Sedan thread.

OT:

Echo the feeling, drawing blanks every time is quite frustrating.
Sometimes I just want to ask you try out the latest wagonR and see if the space works for you.

Haha, Wagon R is an interesting practical choice in many ways. I appreciate how Maruti has tried to cater to a wide segment of needs by taking out many different models. Something Mahindra seems to be on to in the SUV space. Each time I have such whacky "Wagon-R like" ideas, I find myself comparing them to the practical-Hector, and the Hector wins.

~~~~~~~~

I realize that I really need to choose my compromises and get on with it. There is a bit more happening in life than I'd be comfortable sharing on a public platform, so that too is keeping me from sprinting to a purchase - and then there are waiting times, which encourage the analysis-paralysis! Knowing myself, in the current situation, I am better off delaying things a bit than settle for a car I end up being unhappy with.

One part of liking a car which one has compromised on, is to get at ease with the compromise, and that too can take some time, especially if one s passionate about the driving experience. The Magnum spoilt me, as it had extremely few (and well reasoned) compromises for my use case. Just moving to an SUV (due to back issues) and SUV dynamics has been a compromise to start with.

~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by fergus

A very well written thread, researched in detail and lots of test drive experiences shared by Poitive. Thank you .I am also searching for a new car/SUV. Currently we have a Corolla which is due for renewal and an Alto K10 AGS for in city commute...

Thank you, mate. To be meaningfully suggest things, it would be helpful if you share more details about the rough budget, needs, and aspirations you have from your next car; about what aspects are more important for you. With the large menu of cars we have now, different cars would suit different people. Since this post has become as long, will share thoughts on your choices later (ideally after you've detailed out needs further).

~~~~~~~~

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

I desperately need some serious help.

Do I actually replace the Thar with the ScorpioN Z4 or a Grand Vitara. Or keep the Thar and get a Hatchback for my daily commutes like Ignis or WagonR.

Or wait for some concrete news on the Jimny 5 door to add to the mix and get more confused?

Mate, the vehicles you are looking at seem pretty diverse, and if off-roading is not really your purpose, there might be other options in the market which suit better.

For meaningful suggestions, it would be better if you shared more details about why you're considering a change, your use-case, budget, expectations from a car etc. Also details on the kind of off-road use, if any.

[dr_TJ]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Mate, the vehicles you are looking at seem pretty diverse, and if off-roading is not really your purpose, there might be other options in the market which suit better.

For meaningful suggestions, it would be better if you shared more details about why you're considering a change, your use-case, budget, expectations from a car etc. Also details on the kind of off-road use, if any.

Ok, let me elaborate.
I have a family of three right now, Me and my Parents.
Currently Thar D AT is the only vehicle in my Garage. I use it for my daily commute which is me alone mostly. Weekend drive is to the country side with my parents (Visit to home construction site and some work).
Not into serious recreational offroading but because of our country side visits, did require to engage 4High to cross a muddy portion of the road. I admit, this doesn't justify me owning a Thar. 4x4 is not an absolute must in my use case, but having 4x4 works like a safety net for the muddy roads we sometimes travel through.
A big heavy SUV without 4x4 if stuck is a huge pain.

As far as budget goes, with my recent calculations, considering other expenditures planned, self imposed restrictions are now in place. So budget won't exceed the price I paid for my Thar (17 lakhs approx), might even go lower.

Another criteria is Automatic transmission. Just don't want to get back to manual transmission for my daily commutes.
Now the big question is why replace the Thar or even Why did I get the Thar anyway?
Well, initial plan was to add a hatchback for daily commute and Thar is a 2nd car. Plan didn't materialise due to various reasons. Now due to some health issues of my parents this year, I feel it's better If I get a 5 door car soon.
Cannot get a secondary car along side the Thar because of financial constraints as well as garage space constraints.

So, basically, if I need to replace I Thar, I need something with 5 doors, Automatic Transmission (No AMTs), Good Ground Clearance, Good safety rating, Comfort Ride quality, Rough road friendly and in my Budget. 4x4 is not a must have feature, but gives peace of mind when going over sticky muddy roads.

[shancz]

Glad to hear from you Poitive.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- The Japanese (or Asian, rather) seems so true!
- The specs of the Grand Vitara and Hyrider have kept me away from even considering them seriously.

- Asian would be more apt, as long as the Koreans don't start to "maximise profits" by cheapening their internal components
- Second your thoughts. Those specs are workable for the Brezza but nothing more. Nothing Grand in this Vitara.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- how such things are not done right in a company with a legacy of Tata, and for a flagship product.
- This happened under the watch of the much talked about Pratap Bose!

- Ditto and its not an issue with capability but attitude.
OT: Rants
- Honestly the only time I saw him was in an interview with Kartikeya Singhee of ZigWheels on the Safari launch and when asked about the Gravitas he said with a smirk that it was all planned as a decoy. I got a feeling that he took everyone else to be absolute idiots and believe his words for gospel. Didn't care to check his laurels further but that rounded plastic frame on the rear of the XUV700 which was there to house the previous Mahindra logo reminded me of him. I was expecting him to peddle it as a decoy again.

Originally Posted by Poitive

I find that the Harrier is not appreciated enough.

Agree and TML's service has to partly shoulder the blame. Although its quite intriguing as it had a pretty easy market when it was launched and there was a lot of interest but the sales didn't measure up.

Originally Posted by Poitive

- Haha, I can feel the value of money slipping right under my feet!
- Each time I have such whacky "Wagon-R like" ideas, I find myself comparing them to the practical-Hector, and the Hector wins.
- I am better off delaying things a bit than settle for a car I end up being unhappy with.

- The value of money in today's automotive world needs a thread in itself.
- Agree Hector still fits your requirements best except your sour sales experience and future of MG concerns.
- Agree.

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

- Currently Thar D AT is the only vehicle in my Garage.
- if I need to replace I Thar, I need something with 5 doors, Automatic Transmission (No AMTs), Good Ground Clearance, Good safety rating, Comfort Ride quality, Rough road friendly and in my Budget.

- Sold the Ecosport ?
- I would prefer the new Brezza over the Grand Vitara as the same engine in a larger and heavier car wouldn't be very interesting to drive. But TD both if possible. Outside of these as earlier the Nexon and XUV300 lose out on AT and the Kushaq/Taigun will have issues in serviceability at your location and potentially expensive maintenance.

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

Do I actually replace the Thar with the ScorpioN Z4 or a Grand Vitara.

If this was the only line to choose from then I would say the ScorpioN.

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

Do I actually replace the Thar with the ScorpioN Z4 or a Grand Vitara. Or keep the Thar and get a Hatchback for my daily commutes like Ignis or WagonR.

Or get the Brezza(compact for city, my preference) with 6AT, like you always wanted or the XL6 with 6AT like your parents would want ?
Selling the Thar or not is up to you but you can always keep both cars and see if the Thar is used much or not then decide.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by dr_TJ

Ok, let me elaborate.

Just realised that you are more or less heading back to your earlier configuration of Celerio and Ecosport which made sense for a no nonsense beater(which you enjoyed) and the more capable and comfortable and 4 seater.

Having hurriedly gone through the previous thread and your current situation I would say keep the Thar and get a beater Ignis.

Reasons :

• A beater never hurts and a compact hatchback cannot be replaced by anything larger whatever the reasons.
• Why Ignis ? Since you already owned the Celerio AMT so Ignis would be a more premium and fun(K12B) offering along with its raised 180mm GC which your parents would appreciate. AGS or not is upto you to decide.
• The Thar ? Its keeping you happy except the carrying 4 people in comfort part. Ultimately you'll have to replace it with a proper 5 door, 5 seater 2-3 years down the line. Be it the Jimny/Thar 5 door or anything that's an excellent purchase at that time.

Alternates for the beater ?

• S-presso : I know the looks but it has that Nano feel to it in terms of city driving comfort and the rear seat.
• Tiago NRG : The Tiago NRG also has 180mm GC but the AMT hasn't got very good feedback but you can take a TD to check out the seating comfort.
• WagonR : lower GC than the others, good space if you have the use for it but I doubt if that's your requirement.
• Celerio : nothing that you already don't know, the reviews on its AGS/AMT unit have been good.

Alternate lines of thought ?

• Single Car Garage : In that rare case you want to go with a single car garage then the CSUV is your bet with the Brezza taking the lead with better seating comfort and safety over the Sonet/Venue. The Nexon/XUV300 lose out due to their AMTs.
• Immediate Changeover to ScorpioN : I don't think it makes any sense especially now since your Thar is quite new and not to forget your wish. Like you said it seems like an overkill for your needs.
• The Requirement for the big car : 5 door 5 seater highway mile muncher with AT and AWD(not 4x4) capability to tackle that certain situation if it comes up without sacrificing too much on the comfort and FE, IMHO.

I see a two car garage taking shape and will be complete with that all rounder 5 seater and the beater but till that time the beater seems to be the first step in that direction

[RijuC]

For the Scorpio N, I have the following query for use in the hills:

Usually I maintain an average speed of 30-40 kmph on good tarmacs and it drops to 20-30 kmph when it is single lane or narrow 2 lanes road. In rare cases of wide roads in the hills I touch the 50-60 kmph speed (for example the road section between Rudraprayag and Augustamuni). Whether these restrictions will be good enough for Scorpio N considering the higher CG and Roll centre and the lack of feedback that Poitive have explained in the Scorpio N review thread (it was an excellent technical article, I won't say it was just a post)? My ETA is always based on average speed of 30 kmph for the destinations in the hills.

Also, I won't be taking this SUV or any other new car directly to such hilly terrains till the time I fairly understand the car and drive it continuously in the plains for at least 3 months time.

I have occassionally touched 120 kmph and twice the 140 kmph mark on empty stretches of the Meerut expressway, KMP and the Sonipat-Ambala highway. However, I won't dare to do such mis-adventures in this gigantic SUV. I need to forget triple digits if I ultimately finalize Scorpio N. Here I have to tell something about myself- due to my background, the actions and reactions, control and out of control scenarios always play in my mind.