[RijuC]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Although it's not safe to drive any vehicle fast through mountain roads, a Scorpio will not have any trouble sticking to the road it's just that your passenger's lunch needs to stay inside their stomach

Observe how the vehicle's weight shift with your steering and pedal inputs , learn to keep its body movements under control and you'd be very happy with it.

This is one major point- fatigue due to body roll. Recently I watched a youtube video of travel blogger. The youtuber couple is not automobile reviewer. They visited Tehri from Delhi in their newly purchased Scorpio N. At the end of their journey, they felt exhausted! I also travelled almost similar route, but didn't feel this much exhausted/ uncomfortable. Couldn't understand whether it was due to their new driving experience in the hills or due to the body roll effect of Scorpio N.

I am already 46 and enjoy the journey through forests and beautiful mountains more than racing it up. 30-40 kmph is the maximum range in mountains, except few newly laid beutiful stretches, for example, near Agastya Muni or Shimla highway. Moreover, I am a physics graduate (and I do respect physics ) and Control system professional. I have noticed one thing- none of my departmental colleagues drive aggressive. Perhaps we are more concerned and sensitive to various feedbacks while driving. Whereas the mechanical guys are mostly F1 drivers.

Is the body roll too much in this new Scorpio N?

Originally Posted by Poitive

Coming back to the Scorpio N, what I expect is that it will manage things well and feel in control till it quite suddenly won't. In other words, it will give a confident feeling, and then allow a very short window for correction before going out of control. This need not be a deal-breaker if your heart is set on the vehicle, as can be compensated by driving a tad slower, and more cautiously. Drive it based on it's ability and all is well, as it is for most vehicles.

You explained it nicely. With less experience, this short window becomes shorter. I read your analysis thoroughly and that is the reason behind all my queries here. Whether the new car serves the purpose? I am not sure.

[Poitive]

A Year!

Today marks a whole year since the thread was started. So, it is a good day to share the result of this:

Originally Posted by Poitive

... There are some developments at my end too. I will share more with the thread at an appropriate time.

The New One is Home!

It has only been a few days, and I thought I'll share with folks here on the "anniversary" since it was so very close.

I had hoped to start an ownership thread in quick time and have it live today, but due to time and other constraints couldn't manage that, however felt compelled to at least share the news with dear mates here.

Please allow me to share details of what eventually reached home and why on the ownership thread. Will try to hurry this up. (Just in case you've guessed it, please keep it to yourself).

Many thanks to all the contributors to this thread and decision making process, for all the inputs and also certainly for the camaraderie; something which was important in times of frustration with the wait and decision making. I shall convey my thanks in a better manner on the ownership thread.

~~~~~

@Mods: Please let the thread remain open. The very least I have to share is the longish TD report of another vehicle mentioned earlier, and also that the thread might be useful for others making similar choices, and has many test drive reports by the same person (would be 9 vehicles with some reported more than once). I shall be happy to keep contributing to the thread, as I expect would some other regulars.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Today marks a whole year since the thread was started. So, it is a good day to share the result of this:

The New One is Home!

Congratulations Poitive
This was a pleasant surprise, I can partly feel the excitement too.

The search did go for a long time but I never realised it was on for a year, nice of you to announce it on the day

I will hold my guesses and will wait for the ownership thread.
Congrats again.

[RijuC]

Many many congratulations Poitive for this big news on the anniversary date.

We shall be waiting for the ownership write-up.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by Poitive

[center]

A Year!

Today marks a whole year since the thread was started. So, it is a good day to share the result of this:


The New One is Home!

Congratulations Poitive, tank up and enjoy. Please do let us know more, pictures are welcome but a long post for us to read is certainly in order.

Originally Posted by RijuC

This is one major point- fatigue due to body roll. Recently I watched a Youtube video of travel blogger. The Youtuber couple is not automobile reviewer. They visited Tehri from Delhi in their newly purchased Scorpio N. At the end of their journey, they felt exhausted!

*Snip*

Is the body roll too much in this new Scorpio N?

Short answer - No. It rides very well. A good driver can make Scorpio of any vintage behave well, drive flat out on the straight roads with smooth inputs and balance the weight well on the curves, no one will feel fatigue because the ambience is good, the mHawk & mStallion etc are very refined, even when the engine noise makes it to cabin its never harsh, all of that is well thought of.

I have not experienced the lower models however Z8L`s ambience is luxury car level.

There are 8L + Scorpios in the market before the N released, they last long and have very well earned their keep, it needs to be used, the more you venture into off beat places that makes good use of the vehicle`s capability, the more you`ll appreciate why such a vehicle exist in the first place.

[RijuC]

With a heavy heart, I have decided to cancel the Scorpio N, primarily because of the following reasons:

1. Usage: Most of the time, I am the only person occupying the seat. My wife joins me either on Saturday or Sunday and during trips. 7 seater is actually not needed.

2. Suitability for hills, mountains: I understand from the discussions and suggestions that the Scorpio N is not suitable for hills and mountains for my lesiure trips. It is good for off-roading and high loads of man/ material movements in the mountains but not for enjoying the trips without worry. There will always be a fear of toppling the SUV, and it's easy to topple if the margin of error is crossed.

3. Existing Swift: My existing Swift Interior is still mint fresh, ex-showroom condition. It has just run 30k in 6 years and absolutely no problem. Added advantage is the "road chipak ke" drives in mountains. Let's continue with Swift for few more months/ years. It's a single car garage in my society.

I'll continue my search for a safe for highways, good for leisure trips in mountains and good on bad roads, good and reliable Automatic Transmission car. Scorpio N was kind of love at first sight. It was liked by both of us. But we are concerned about our leisure trips. That should not become our last trip.

[DicKy]

Originally Posted by Poitive

The New One is Home!

At last. Looking forward to see which one was selected finally.

This thread has become the sort of go to one for the hottest vehicle segment today, and I am sure there are many others who will find the discussions here helpful.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by shancz

Congratulations Poitive
This was a pleasant surprise, I can partly feel the excitement too.

Thanks for being a valuable companion along this hunt which was a mix of excitement, enjoyment, but also some frustration. That you too feel the excitement is an indication of your level of involvement in the process . Much appreciated, shancz mate.

Originally Posted by RijuC

Many many congratulations Poitive for this big news on the anniversary date.

We shall be waiting for the ownership write-up.

Thank you mate. Just might take a little longer than anticipated, to write the Ownership Report.

I hope you too soon figure out and go ahead with your purchase.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Congratulations Poitive, tank up and enjoy. Please do let us know more, pictures are welcome but a long post for us to read is certainly in order.

Thanks mate, surely doing that already. You'll get more than a long post - an ownership report.

Originally Posted by DicKy

At last. Looking forward to see which one was selected finally.

This thread has become the sort of go to one for the hottest vehicle segment today, and I am sure there are many others who will find the discussions here helpful.

Thanks for sharing the happiness, mate. Am happy to hear that the thread is seen such.

Folks, please allow me some time for the ownership report. Not being able to take out as much time as I'd like, and want to finish the half-done TD report first. I also tend to prioritize selection of others, where the time spend might have a more direct use, as in the case of RijuC.

~~~~~~

Originally Posted by RijuC

You explained it nicely. With less experience, this short window becomes shorter. I read your analysis thoroughly and that is the reason behind all my queries here.

From what I understand, the experience part too is correct. Cars designed and tuned for motorsport professionals are with a shorter window for correction, as they can manage with it. They would rather have other driving characteristics as a trade-off.

Regarding your fatigue point: please refer to the long TD report I posted a while back in this thread.

Originally Posted by RijuC

With a heavy heart, I have decided to cancel the Scorpio N, primarily because of the following reasons:
...
2. Suitability for hills, mountains: I understand from the discussions and suggestions that the Scorpio N is not suitable for hills and mountains for my lesiure trips...

I am sure the Scorpio N would be extensively used in the hills, and will almost certainly be a popular vehicle. Am just trying to put my views in perspective, since it appeared that one of the influences for your questions here was my post earlier.

The vehicle should be understood for what it is, and one should not get carried away with the marketing talk, and the like (some will be found always appreciating or ridiculing a certain brand). Also to realize it's relative strengths and weaknesses vis a vis other options in the market; the word relative being key here. For me, clearly a low CoG vehicle would have an advantage in many situations, but as before others can be driven by simply driving slower and with more caution.

The Scorpio N Z4 does have ESP, right? That is some insurance itself. I haven't kept myself updated enough for some time, and just saw the GNCAP video of the Scorpio N (which prompted this post too), and surprisingly it was upright in the side impact test. That said, as before, I do not see star ratings as the ultimate mark of safety - there is much more. (See how a poorly designed high CoG vehicle can end up in tests which are not a part of the protocol here.) Things like feedback, driver connect etc, of course, aren't measured in such tests, nor is the ability of the vehicle to be maneuvered properly in tight situations.

The "chipak ke" feeling and taking tight turns at speeds where one feels the centrifugal force significantly is not for high CoG BoF vehicles. That is best left to sedans and hatchbacks. Recollecting the drive video you shared earlier, something with big tyres would work well for you. Needs which pull things in opposite directions. A Harrier with it's lower CoG for the segment, is a good balance, and comes with an HPS, but alas only available in Diesel. Kicks, which too had these traits and had petrol is apparently on the way out (or already is). That is why I talked about the XUV 700, which might be somewhere midway between them and the Scorpio N. Do consider the AX3. The price difference divided by 15 years might mean a small monthly amount (something I ran through my head for my own case too). A part of which might be recovered by better FE.

The other one which fits the needed balance is an XUV 300. Even in manual mode, it is clutchless so your legs would not be troubled. You will also get the extra control a manual vehicle provides. It came across as a well thought out design in the limited time I spent with it. A good variant should also come well within your original budget. A good size for your kind of usage too, though with all 4/5 passengers the luggage space would be a concern.

PS: Came up in a discussion, and is probably well known that car prices often increase in January. Further, those looking at diesel vehicles, might want to hurry. With the next version of BS6 coming up, the hardware cost is said to increase significantly and will consequently raise prices.

~~~~~~~

Jeep Wrangler 4-door driver-side small overlap crash test by IIHS

2019 model:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqWuYc6d7-E

The vehicle actually flips over at a 40mph (~64kmph)!!!

So, what next? Jeep tries to improve it. The result below.

2022 model:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEmITD1cFdw

So much for Jeep's engineering prowess. The 2013 model, surprisingly, did not have this issue.

[RijuC]

Originally Posted by Poitive

The Scorpio N Z4 does have ESP, right? That is some insurance itself. I haven't kept myself updated enough for some time, and just saw the GNCAP video of the Scorpio N (which prompted this post too), and surprisingly it was upright in the side impact test.

The Scorpio N Z4 AT Diesel variant is fairly feature loaded with all essential features available, except the Airbags limited to two only.

Z4 Diesel AT has the ESP, Hill Descent Control, Traction control, drive modes (equivalent to eco, city, sports mode). The small LCD display part between the speedo and tacho dials has all essential information available. The 8 inch infotainment screen looks decent and has most of the necessary features, with wired Android Auto.

Recently it has secured GNCAP 5 rating. You are right, even 5 star safety rating doesn't prevent fatal accidents if an idiot is on the the steering.

What it does not have are:
1. 6 airbags (only 2 Airbags in Z4),
2. TPMS (3rd party installation possible),
3. Electrically foldable ORVMs (relay and new wiring may resolve this, but not a deal breaker),
4. Fog lights (3rd party lights are not yet available in the market).

[BleueNinja]

Congratulations Poitive. Eagerly awaiting your ownership thread!

Cheers!

[NPV]

This is for a friend and I must admit I have been woefully out of touch with the current cars in the market especially since Covid! Please help with this query - his shortlist is Mahindra Scorpio N, Mahindra XUV 700, MG Hector and Tata Harrier (all Diesels), questions:

1. Scorpio N
-what's a better choice and why ? Between Z8 and Z8L
-are there 2 engine Options, please enlighten and compare/contrast

2. XUV 700
-what's a better choice and why ? Between AX5, AX7 and AX LX
- do the Scorpio N & XUV 700 share engine Options?

3. MG Hector
-please enlighten on variants and engine Options (5 and 6 seat configuration/variants are available apparently) ?

4. Tata Harrier
-please enlighten on variants and engine Options. Concern about FE being too low

I know it may sound weird not having proper requirements but he has done some amount of visits to the showrooms and zeroed in on this shortlist so please share your thoughts on each.

*I didn't want to create a separate new thread and I'm posting here since I think this thread is current and has a lot of research, comments and feedback!

[BleueNinja]

For Mahindra the advices given are based on feature set that are present as of 20 December 2022. Feature set may increase/Decrease anytime. Also these are my personal opinions, other forum members may have their own share of experiences which might vastly differ from mine.

Originally Posted by NPV

1. Scorpio N
-what's a better choice and why ? Between Z8 and Z8L
-are there 2 engine Options, please enlighten and compare/contrast

ScorpioN is based on BOF Chassis and comes with 2 Fuel options : Petrol & Diesel which are followed by 2 drive terrain options RWD and 4*4. The RWD should cover most of the terrains and is a suitable option for masses. If your friend’s monthly run is more than 1500 kms then diesel can be opted for else petrol should be fine. Mahindra has greatly improved their petrol engines and they’re fun to drive but fuel efficiency takes a hit specially with Automatic variants.

Between z8 and z8L you can go for Z8 as it is equipped with all must haves and good to have features. Z8L has front camera, 12 speaker setup, power adjustable seat as extra option which are good to have but not necessary.

On a personal note I didn’t like the steering feel of Mahindra ScorpioN. Also if you have more of an urban + Highway usage then XUV or Harrier are better options.

Originally Posted by NPV

2. XUV 700
-what's a better choice and why ? Between AX5, AX7 and AX LUX
- do the Scorpio N & XUV 700 share engine Options?

Don’t even consider AX5. Go for AX7 or AX7 LX. If affordability isn’t a question then go for AX7 LX.

XUV is based on Monocoque chassis and comes as FWD or AWD option in 5/7 seater configuration.
Only AX7 LX has AWD option.

ScorpioN and XUV do share engine but state of tune has minor differences between the two. Not to forget XUV is based on monocoque chassis where as Scorpio is based on BOF.

Between these two my personal choice would be XUV for urban and highway friendly nature not to forget better boot usability. Now, Scorpio isn’t a slouch on highway or urban conditions it’s just that XUV and Harrier are better. Plus I personally don’t like the way ScorpioN’s boot has been laid out. Some desi jugaad can be done to rectify that.

My friend’s XUV Diesel is more economical than his brother’s ScorpioN Diesel.

Originally Posted by NPV

4. Tata Harrier
-please enlighten on variants and engine Options. Concern about FE being too low

Harrier comes only with FWD Diesel as an option and it’s a 5 seater. If you need 7 seater configuration then you should be looking at Safari.

I own Automatic variant of harrier and fuel efficiency that I get is 11-13 kmpl in city and 15-19 kmpl on highways. High speed stability and driving dynamics of harrier are really good, bad roads are conquered easily.

The engine is punchy and fun to drive. Although XUV has more powerful and more torquey engine than Harrier but somehow high speed stability and ride comfort is better in Harrier than XUV.
XUV does have FSD for a great ride but Harrier’s suspension too has been tuned by Lotus and JLR so i have found it to be great on bad roads. On slow speeds you definitely can feel the bumps in both of them.

Harrier XZA+ Should be the variant to go for if you decide to because now it’s equipped with rear disc brakes and other safety goodies. Worse case scenario go for XZA.

If going for diesel then Mahindra’s implementation of DPF regeneration is better than TATA. For Tata you need to visit their showroom or drive the car at 3,000 rpm for 20 mins but with Mahindra you need to push a sequence of button to clear the Clog.

Also last but not the least I must warn you though the infotainment system of harrier is Horrendous. I thought “how bad can it be?” Before buying the car, turns out it’s bad. It’s usable and you can get used to it but a car that costs north of 20 lacs should be equipped with a better system.

Tata and Mahindra service is a hit/miss. If you can maintain good repo your work will be done else you might have to be a part of a painstaking process to get your work done.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by NPV

This is for a friend and I must admit I have been woefully out of touch with the current cars in the market especially since Covid! Please help with this query - his shortlist is Mahindra Scorpio N, Mahindra XUV 700, MG Hector and Tata Harrier (all Diesels), questions:

XUV7OO and ScorpioN - in that order, while ScorpioN is certainly what identifies with the brand better , it is XUV7OO that is truly the more modern vehicle among the two, although I have to admit that ScorpioN despite being BOF drives better than all the other crossovers in the list.

Your friend can get the L variants that is AX7-L or Z8-L both in AT variants be it petrol or diesel. These are worth the extra money.

Hector does not have diesel AT.

[shancz]

Originally Posted by NPV

- XUV 700 : what's a better choice and why ? Between AX5, AX7 and AX LUX
- MG Hector : variants and engine Options (5 and 6 seat configuration/variants are available apparently) ?
- Tata Harrier : variants and engine Options.

- XUV700 :
Apart from 5 seats/17 inch alloys on the AX5 vs 7 seats/18 inch alloys on the AX7s some important differences : Credits to Providers : Carwale

Compare Sequence for XUV700 Diesel MT : AX5 -> AX7 -> AX7L










Reference (Use the "Hide common features" and "Highlight differences") for easy readability and expand the section you want to view : Carwale Comparo XUV700 D MT AX577L


- MG Hector :
It has the 5 seater Hector and the 6/7 seater Hector Plus. But as members have pointed out that the diesel is the one to get while the petrol has been reported to be lack luster and thirsty.
A comparo similar to the XUV700 can be done for the models interested in.


- Tata Harrier :
Harrier with 5 and Safari with 6/7 seater options.
Versions are best checked at the showroom at the time of purchase as many have been introduced and maybe what you want can be served by a newly launched edition like the Kaziranga/Jet/Black etc.
Just browse through their models to see the number of editions they have
A comparo similar to the XUV700 can be done for the models interested in.

Hope it helps.

[NPV]

Thanks guys, very valuable inputs!

So, today, my friend and I visited the Mahindra showroom nearby and did a test drive of the XUV 700 AX 7 petrol MT (I hope I got all that right!). The Diesel AX7-L TD car was out with another customer, which is actually what my friend intends buying.

Loved the driveability, ride quality and ergonomics. I will definitely say the auto start-stop, gadgetry, Alexa, 360 degree camera and the million other features can leave one flabbergasted and divert one's attention completely away from the driving part of the test which in my opinion should come first. So after 5 minutes, my friend got off the car to focus more on the features part of the package while I took over driving duties wasn't too long of a TD and with impatient drivers all around on the streets, it wasn't long before we returned, but i did get a good hang of the car and came away impressed overall.

The XUV 700 has an extremely light steering and I guess for someone like me it's going to take a long time to get used to that and feel safe driving a car of such stance and size

The third row is definitely cramped, suited for children or those of shorter build and must be fit enough to manage ingress and egress.

My friend is looking primarily for a 7 seater because he expects 80-20% usage of 5-7 seats.

We also looked at the Scorpio N inside the showroom but didn't do a TD. The third row is really quite uncomfortable, owing to the bigger wheels intruding inside and it also makes headroom lesser for the third row. I think the 6 seater captain seats configuration may circumvent some of the third row ingress and egress, but this only an assumption at the moment, gotta see if this is indeed the case in reality.

Also:
-I think having 4WD in the Scorpio N is better than having AWD on the XUV 700, since 4WD can be engaged when needed ?
-Monocoque chassis on XUV vs body on frame chassis of the Scorpio N, along with lot lesser gadgetry lends itself better for use as a rugged, go anywhere kind of car. But on the flip side, the car like driving dynamics of the XUV 700 will probably be missed on the Scorpio N, and may not be as comfortable on longer drives for rear seat passengers ?

Still have a few more TDs lined up, will post as we go along.