[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

Tata and Mahindra service is a hit/miss. If you can maintain good repo your work will be done else you might have to be a part of a painstaking process to get your work done.

What is your answer here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ar-next-2.html ?

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Mate, since the requirements of your friend aren't clear, difficult to really suggest a vehicle outright.

What is your answer for this https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ar-next-2.html ?

[NPV]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

What did you friend choose and why?

My friend booked the XUV 700 AX7 Diesel AT couple days ago. His family felt it offers the best overall package when compared to the other contenders.

The Tata Safari was a close second and lost out due to complexity when getting the preferred choice of interior trim colour scheme + exterior colour and also more expensive and that's where the XUV 700 felt like a much more VFM package. The waiting period is the bummer but hopefully he can get the car in about 7-8 months which the dealership is vouching for.

[BleueNinja]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

What is your answer here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ar-next-2.html ?

I followed your initial thread and it was one of the thread that i considered and did put me in dilemma before purchasing Harrier.

I have a straight answer for you:

Tuscon Diesel AWD.

If I were in your place i wouldn't fidget around with another hit/miss idea and would straight away discard Mahindra and Jeep as well as they aren't receiving any accolades for "Reliable machine of the year".

If you are open to second hand cars you can have a look at pre owned Fortuner as well.

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by BleueNinja

I followed your initial thread and it was one of the thread that i considered and did put me in dilemma before purchasing Harrier.

I have a straight answer for you:

Tuscon Diesel AWD.

If I were in your place i wouldn't fidget around with another hit/miss idea and would straight away discard Mahindra and Jeep as well as they aren't receiving any accolades for "Reliable machine of the year".

If you are open to second hand cars you can have a look at pre owned Fortuner as well.

Thanks. The Tuscon is at least 7-8 lakhs above my budget. It’s a significant stretch for me. However, I will keep it in the list.

A big no for used cars

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by NPV

Thanks for your very detailed response, appreciate it
....
The Compass and Harrier were ruled out initially (no TD) since they can't seat 7.
.....
I had also asked him to TD the XUV 700 Diesel on the same route taken as the other cars, so once we do this next week I will share the update.

- Glad to have done that.

- Had separated point 12 into another section, as it was for a wider audience, hence included the Harrier and Compass. I take it that many who read don't or are not able to (non-members) post.

Also mentioned the Harrier instead of the Safari, as most of my experience was with the Harrier, and only a bit with the Safari; Safari being a sort of an extension of the Harrier.

- Happy to read that your friend went in for the XUV700 over the Scropio-N, given the use-case.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

What is your answer for this https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/what-...ar-next-2.html ?

Adding a part of your post from the linked thread for readers here to have context. Please add further here as needed.

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

As some of you in this forum know my cries, rants, frustration, and disappointment with my previous ownership of a 2019 BS4 Harrier XZ lemon, nevertheless, I am happy that I was able to get rid of the car finally.
....
Some of my requirements
1. Appropriate replacement of Harrier in terms of space. I only need a 5-seater. Though I am not strictly against 7 seats also.
2. Safety, performance, ride, and handling. I am an enthusiast looking to satisfy my Schumacher/Vin Diesel in me.
3. Reliability is an equal priority (since I lost my peace of mind and money with my previous car - Lemon Harrier).
4. I will be the only driver and this will my primary car. I have a beater car (2009 Indica Vista Diesel). I use it only for the sake of using it and I don't intend to sell it as it will be used as a backup and as a learner's car to my wife. I also hold on to my cars for as long as possible.
5. I am a person who appreciates sound mechanicals more than tonnes of gizmos. Of course, I expect at-par bells and whistles compared to the market if not the best.
6. I did about 48K kms in about 2yrs 10 months in my Harrier. I expect to do the same with +/- 5-6K. This is the last leg to own a diesel. However, my only concern is the DPF issue. While mileage is important, I would rather spend an additional 9rs/liter (or) 5K/month for the petrol rather than get stuck on the road with the DPF issue in a diesel. Am I worrying too much? Am I overthinking? Can I still go ahead with the diesel?
7. Budget is approximately 25L-35L.
8. Automatic preferred. Manual can also be considered.
...

Mate, in a sense you are quite asking for everything one might want from a car. None will be perfect, and one will have to choose what one is willing to compromise more on, and what less on.

Considering somewhat high usage, if reliability is a priority and if you are fearful of a repeat, you might want to stick with Toyota.

Modifications:
I have read your posts off and on, on different threads; much about the enthusiast part, and also about modifications. While looking at any mods, do consider:
- Why the manufacturer might not have done that in the first place.
- That you would be using the vehicle in a manner it was not designed or tested to be used as.

With how manufacturing is getting tighter, and how computer aided design allows more precise design, and the expected life of vehicles going down (planned obsolesce too), vehicles are less over-engineered to be able to handle mods well. I would avoid being the guinea-pig for any particular vehicle.

If reliability is important enough, think much before modifications.

I also recollect you considering a modification to the suspension of the Harrier, after a remap. In general, suspensions are often a very sophisticated part of design, even more so when there are electronic aids in a vehicle to keep it safe. This matters more as the CoG (Centre of Gravity) rises. High speed swerves are often aided by ESP in vehicles, and it is very important as the CoG rises, and I would think a hundred times before touching the suspension of a high CoG car. Simply adding a stabilizer bar and making one side more taught can affect how a vehicle oversteers or understeers - something the ESP would not be appropriately into account as the manufacturer programmed it with a different character.

In essence, instead of planning for driving related mods, it might be a much better idea to go for a vehicle which suits your tasted from the factory. Of course, some basic things like tyre brand and type change and damping etc should not be big issues.

Further,

It would be good to know what kind of an enthusiast you are; what part of driving excites you. For some, it is sheer speed, for some corners, for some simply being on a high 'bully' vehicle feels good, for some going off road and tackling the terrain at slow speeds, and so on.

Going by Schumarcher example, and the mods you talked about, I'd suspect cornering and high speed would be a focus. Here, a low CoG is very helpful. Since SUVs were not specifically mentioned, for the enthusiast part, a Skoda Octavia would well be worth a look, if you can live with the lower CoG. You might want to keep a couple of lakhs or so for future maintenance and/or go for the longest warranty you can get, but don't expect it to be a Toyota.

From the SUVs, I think you already had the best balance of sportiness and performance in the Harrier. Few would say what you did and it is commendable. (IIRC) That, your car being a lemon doesn't mean all would be. What is good about it is the steering feel, which would be lacking in the others, and it's CoG is lower than other SUVs. It has a competent motor and a very well tuned suspension; albeit being a torsion bar, when the Compass, XUV700 and Tuscon have independent suspensions, but have EPS. If steering feel and feedback mean much to you, you would miss it in the others.

For sheer performance, the XUV700 is good, but lacks in steering feel, and the higher CoG is felt. It would not corner like a Harrier, but would feel more agile (I suspect a highish roll-centre in this too, but not like the Scorpio N).

If the cabin of the Compass feels adequate for you, it is a gem in terms of drivability and agility. The Fiat motor feels better in this too, due to it's lower weight. However there are other concerns.

I suggest you go through this thread as many aspects have been discussed, and if there are specific points, one can discuss further.

All the best for your selection.

PS: If you are looking for a small footprint and a practical car, and can manage with smaller luggage space, do look at the XUV300 MT. In my short run, it came across as a well sorted design. Lower CoG, good space inside; second row should seat 3 better than some bigger cars, IIRC. The diesel has a torque to weight ratio of around what my Optra Magnum had, which was a delight to drive. It would save you a big amount too, if that is relevant. The Electric one might save much on fuel expense, but I expect it to handle quite differently with the altered CoG. It would have it lower, however would be a mismatch to the suspension geometry which is as per an ICE vehicle.

Edit: I agree with @BleueNinja : If budget allows, and for reliability, the CKD Tucson should be worth serious consideration.

[Poitive]

Mahindra Alturas G4 (Ssangyong Rexton G4 - Y400) - Test Drive and Other Information

As one will note, this vehicle was studied a lot. Probably more than all the others combined. This, as very little information was available on the Alturas, and on digging a lot, there was much to be found on the Rexton. (For those unaware: the Alturas G4 is a rebadged version of the Ssangyong Rexton G4 – Y400, with slight changes). This is going to be a long report, and might interest ones beyond those looking at this vehicle, and be enjoyable for enthusiasts.

This Test Drive happened a while ago. Had studied many aspects of the company and vehicle then – numerous YouTube videos, articles, technical studies etc. While most I say below would be correct, there just might be some errors, as there is little point in spending time checking each little detail before posting, so please take this as a general sort-of disclaimer: that if the point is really important for you, please do your own search to confirm. Supplementing information on the thread, of course, is welcome.

General Info and Background

You might be wondering what an Alturas is doing on an SUV thread for 22 lakhs. It actually was advertised for about 21 lakhs ex-showroom for a short while in it’s 2WD avatar a few months ago. As many might know, the Alturas G4 is really the Ssangyong Rexton G4. The Y400 version has been sold in India. Internationally, a newer variant called the Y450 has been around, which has an 8 speed Hyundai AT gearbox and a higher BHP tuning, besides a facelift of the cabin and front with a bigger grille.

Some mistake the G4 to represent a 4WD, it really is for representing the forth generation of the Rexton. Sangyong is the oldest active car maker in Korea, if I remember correctly. They have had a focus on SUVs and have had a tie-up with Mercedes Benz in the past for technical knowledge sharing etc. While their older designs often looked odd, and were the butt of jokes, the Alturas / Rexton G4 (Y400) is a delight for me. This one does have proper SUV looks and proportions, especially with that large and high hood. To me, it looks between good and excellent from all angles. This from a company which was made fun of for the aesthetics of it’s designs! What a huge jump. This vehicle feels big, and is one of understated style. An antithesis to XUV700 like flashy designs, this one looks sophisticated – like one which knows it’s place, and does not need to announce it’s presence. Truly appreciated. I liked this over many of the famed marquees. This impression is a mix of the ones seen on the road, the videos, and the TD vehicle (which was in kept in moderate shape, at best).


The Pininfarina Link

Have come across things about Pininfarina sporadically across the net; some from good sources. The famed studio (where Mahindra has a large stake, as with Ssangyong) is said to have worked on the aerodynamics of the vehicle. Also the sound insulation, which is impeccable (I believe the Scorpio N and XUV700 take from this too). Was also told by the SA that the interiors too have had inputs from Pininfarina.

The looks and overall maturity might well be due to inputs from them. My beloved Optra too had parts done by them. A slight resemblance can be seen in the side crease at the shoulder line – check the crease of the Optra Magnum from the rear (a picture on my Optra Ownership thread) and the crease of the Rexton / Alturas G4 from the front/hood. Both look exquisite and tasteful. Overall, I find this to be a very graceful and understated vehicle, especially from the outside – classy, with little bling, and an imposing size, once you are next to it.


Some Specs and Details about the SUV

Since this is not really a well known or popular vehicle, writing some basics here. It only comes as a Diesel with an AT. No petrol, and alas no MT option either.

4 cylinder 2157 cc engine.
Power: 176 bhp @ 4000 RPM (have come across specs of 176, 178 and 183 bhp)
Torque: 420 NM @ 1600 – 2600 RPM
Gearbox: 7 speed AT. A Mercedes Benz unit, which till a few years ago was also being used in the S-Class, as fare as I know.
Structure: It is Rear Wheel Drive, Body on Frame. 81% high strength steel.
Suspension: Front is double wishbone. The rear has a Solid Axle. More on this in the Drive section.
Towing Capacity: 3500 kgs!
Some folks I met thought that this is the same engine as the XUV700 and Scropio N, which isn’t the case. The engine has been developed in-house by Ssangyong and only used in this vehicle; an uncommon thing in today’s part-sharing world, to have one which is exclusively build for one. It punches above it’s weight (cubic capacity) when one drives it. It is a fine engine.

Steering: This has something interesting, which is covered later.

This has a wheelbase of 2865mm. This makes the 2745mm of the Fortuner seem (half) a segment lower! It is significantly bigger than the Fortuner in size, though it may not be obvious at a casual glance.



For an idea of the size of this thing, a comparison of the side profiles:
Alturas G4 vs Toyota Fortuner
Pic source: Overdrive review

Another surprising size comparison I came across. Picture source: Auto Review.



Another view:

[Poitive]

Before the Drive

The TD vehicle had a mix and match of tyres. I guess they didn’t want to spend much on maintaining a vehicle which hardly sells. It had done over 35K kms, IIRC.

This one has a high H5 point (roughly the seat height measured from the road level). It has a fairly good door opening aperture, so I tried to climb on the side-step and enter, but that is cumbersome as it still needs bending at an awkward angle with worries of the foot slipping off the side-step while manoeuvring the body inside. I guess shorter people will not have that issue. For me, getting on to the seat directly worked better, even though it was rather high.

Once inside, the interiors were appreciated. The leather has gotten quite a bit of shine in the heavily rubbed areas, so does not feel as fresh, yet the quality of workmanship and overall feel is very good. Personally, I preferred the grey interiors of the 2WD model as seen in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmi5QjZLAiA

I had to set the seat at it’s lowest position. The front had ample room. The legs sat wide and quite comfortable. Had ample foot-room, and a dead petal. No lumbar support, however, which was a surprise considering the overall attention to detail in the car. The controls and touch points were very well done. It is the Ssangyong and Mahindra name which probably biases perception a bit.

The driving position improved a bit by pulling out the telescopic steering and moving the seat a bit further back. This improved the support from the wide armrest too, which incidentally is not a sliding one (the XUV700 and Compass have it). Moving the seat back gave barely enough legroom for my own size to sit at the back, which was surprising considering the overall size of this vehicle, and that the Rexton has been made as a 5+2 seater and not really a people carrier. More of an upmarket-feel 5 seater, with two additional seats; the last row is rather low too. (It is also available in 5 seater configurations overseas). A give-away also is how the D pillar width is huge and the last row has little window space, and the exterior look has been preserved to avoid the people-carrier look. The interior space too has been designed to be plush than utilitarian, which align better with a upmarket 5+2 seater than a 7/8 seater van-like use. A sliding second row is sorely missed, especially considering the last row won’t be uses often by many. More legroom would have given it the luxurious feel this one can easily otherwise give with it’s well appointed interiors.

The width on the second row was ample, and would seat three in comfort; even fairly wide ones. Rear seats could be reclined easily and independently. The centre armrest was wide and at at a comfortable height (I wonder why the Scorpio-N could not copy this simple thing, when it copied so much else!) Headroom though adequate and more for most could be an issue for me. Without the sunroof bulge, it is ample. More than most. With the bulge, if I sit absolutely straight, my head touches the ceiling!

Despite the above, surprisingly, it did not feel cramped. The cabin felt very airy and enjoyable from the front; and quite so from the rear too. The lighter colour combination of the 2WD – especially the ceiling – would make it feel even better.

[Poitive]

The Drive - I

(The headings/sections’ divisions below is only a rough indicator. Many aspects overlap)

Close the door and start the engine, and one thing strikes immediately – how very quiet it is. Absolutely top notch sound insulation by Pininfarina. Driving along, one feels the immense size of the vehicle. Even by some US standards, this falls in the Large SUV category. Despite the size, it felt rather easy to drive. The overall glass area around and being perched high up makes it easy to look around, even when one is in traffic. The flip side is how the line of the base of the window is rather high relative to the road level. This makes it easy to note objects which are low down a bit late unless one is conscious of it.

Moving along, the sound insulation is appreciated even more; hardly any traffic noise, road noise, or wind noise comes into the cabin. Though overall it felt very very refined, yet, when one really focused on it, one could feel some vibrations on the bodywork. It wasn’t like typical engine roughness, but probably some bit of vibrations getting transmitted vis the BoF structure (which really is said to absorb them).

Engine Character

Normal driving range 1500-2000 RMP. Low end has a lot of torque. Noisy after about 3k or so, but one hardly needs to go beyond 3k. Revs up to about 4200 RPM and upshifts even in manual mode then; is very vocal then – like a well mannered sophisticated loud sound, without sounding too sporty or macho! Sound more in tune with a posh vehicle then a sporty or rugged one

The engine feels very free and devoid of strain at 1400 – 2000 RPM, and has a lot of torque low down. As one moves higher, even at 2500RPM, one can feel it being less free. The engine really seems to be built a bit differently from the others with it’s ideal operating range being a few hundred RPM lower, and is geared accordingly. I found myself typically driving happily at lower RPMs. It has ample torque lower down and is a free-revving engine. One might doubt if a 2.2 litre engine would be good enough for a vehicle as large; it did feel very good at city speeds. I drove it in manual mode for a fair part, and even while pushing it, did not feel the need to cross 3000 RPM. The Manual Controls on the vehicle did not work as expected. There seemed to be an issue with the car. It seemed that the gears were dropping but the MID would show a higher gear number, despite the command being to drop a gear! I avoided driving much in Manual, as it seemed to have issues and I didn’t want unpredictable behaviour while Test Driving a car – need to respect it being another’s property.

By Indian standards, it accelerates rapidly too (a guess: 0-100kmph around 11 seconds, or possibly even lesser). Effortless acceleration, even at 100kmph.



Came across this picture later. It shows mapping potential too, but the idea was to share the default tune from the factory - the red and blue lines.
(Picture source in the picture itself)


Gears

At regular city speeds and calm driving, the gear changes would barely even be noticed by the casual occupant besides the change in engine sound; it felt quite seamless. It feels very refined. (It does use the AT box which was used in the Mercedes S-Class up to 2017, IIRC). For sudden press of the accelerator, the response is a bit uncertain – can be a quick gear change in and right into the high torque and power range being pretty responsive, or can take a second or so to select and change the gear and then pick up in a regular manner. The uncertainty wasn’t appreciated by someone like me who likes to have a lot of control and hence generally prefers MT. What is is less suited for is sudden bursts which one might do well by dropping gears right into the meaty-torque range in an MT. Even when the surge forward is quite rapid, it is not felt too much, due to the overall refined nature of the vehicle. The vehicle feels more luxury and comfort oriented and more for cruising than a truly sporty one, which is quite in line with it’s overall structure. It is a high CoG SUV after all, and a BoF (Body on Frame) one at that.

[Poitive]

The Drive - II

The Steering – This needs a very special mention

Most talk of this one having an (EPS) Electric Power Steering. I am not surprised, as it feels very light at low speeds, and on a short slow drive it felt similar. Now, based on what I read, and partially experienced (with moderate confidence) this one does have a (HPS) Hydraulic Power Steering! So, how does this magic happen? Though it is not mentioned anywhere in brochures, some research lead to discovering that the international version really has an Electro-Hydrualic Steering!

So, how does this work? In an EPS, a motor attached to the steering rack or column. This takes away from steering feel due to it’s damping effect, but gives much control on how much assist to give in different conditions. Now think of a regular Hydraulic Steering. It is based on a oil based system with gets it’s power from a belt attached to the engine. Since this is an oil based and hydraulic system, in it’s normal implementation, it allows only limited control over how it behaves at different speeds and conditions, and is typically hard at low speeds and light at higher speeds (reflecting the actual resistance the tyres are facing on steering inputs).

How does one get the best of both worlds?

The Ssangyong Rexton G4 (and by extension I expect the Alturas G4) has a ECU controlled solenoid to alter the oil pressure in the Hydraulic line! So, no motor attached to the steering rack or column to dampen the feel, and yet able to give extra assist at low speeds, when the steering feel has relatively little value. At higher speeds, when one needs to get the feel and wants lesser or no assist, the solenoid is adjusted to regulare oil pressure and can be mapped to reduce it’s effect.

Now, theory aside, how does it work in the real world? I say the following with only moderate certainty from my experience:
a) The steering inputs around the centre are less responded to. Some might see it as somewhat-dead. This quite correlates to HPS, and made me think the Alturas might have an HPS.
b) This is a speed based electronic assistance to a Hydraulic Steering system. That brings one drawback vis-a-vis a regular HPS. If you are taking a sharp turn on a low speed, ideally you want a lot feel and feedback. At low speeds, since it provides a lot of assist, one misses that feel. This is not needed too often, but can be valuable for a high CoG vehicle (and IMO, much needed in the Scorpio-N and missing). With time, I expect one will sensitive a bit more to it, but I expect it to remain limited.
c) As one moves to higher speeds, say over 80kmph which is this vehicle’s “zone”, unlike the XUV700 or Scorpio-N, this steering does not feel dead, and one starts to feel the connect with the vehicle, which gives much confidence. This speaks much about the maturity and sophistication of this design. It feels nimble at those speeds too, which is odd to say for a vehicle of this size (excellent suspension tuning for the purpose).

If I was to sit with the designers, I would ask for say about 20-30% less assist than this has, but that is just me. I would also want this less-assisted feel to start lower down – say at about 50-55kmph than at 70-80kmph.
d) Feedback: Some magic seems to have happened to the roads around those I like to TD around, and it was almost impossible to find a long enough stretch of broken road, so I could not check the steering feedback as I would have liked to. A rough impression is that the feedback would be good, and like above, would want it to be more and from a lower speed. It would be somewhat midway between a pure HPS and a XUV700/Scorpio-N like EPS. (I wasn’t able to test the Scropio-N at such speeds, IIRC).

I later also came across the pictures below:


Steering Setup
.



Current Supplied to the Steering vs Speed

The graph above quite matched the experience (hard to properly correlate though). The current to the solenoid (Electric part of the steering) bottoms out just above 100kmph.

My respect for Ssangyong and the design of this vehicle jumped up feeling and realizing this steering setup. The interesting thing also is that even people from Mahindra/Dealerships are quite unaware of this setup.

Fuel Efficiency

Kept an eye on the FE during the drive. It is highly sensitive to how it is driven and especially the conditions. Pause in a traffic jam and see the average FE drop rapidly. Drive it on a smooth highway at a steady pace (on cruise control) in the right gear (selected by the right speed – just enough to reach a higher gear) and see the average FE rise rapidly. Would not be surprised by it giving 7-9.5 in city depending on conditions and 13-14.5 on good highways when driven for FE, and typical highway drives with moderate traffic and moderate driving, I’d expect about 12.5-13kmpl. On city-suburb runs with FE based driving with a bit of fun, maybe 11kmpl or even more if traffic is smooth. Driving at 100kmpl didn’t seem to hurt FE much; possibly even improved it! The above is based on what I noted on the MID. Was told by an owner that the MID is very accurate about FE.

The initial part of my drive was rather slow and with stops, including to check air-pressure and had low FE - about 7.25kmpl. Was accidentally reset, and had better roads and driving style after that, and the latter had about 9.6kmpl. Overall it was 9.2kmpl and it included all kinds of roads and driving – busy-city, free-city, jams, highway etc.

The above is based on what I noted on the MID. Was told by an owner that the MID is very accurate about FE.

[Poitive]

The Drive - III

Suspension

The front is a double-wishbone, as one might expect for such a vehicle (large BoF). The rear in the Rexton G4 is made in two configurations: An IRS (Independent Rear Suspension - 5 link, IIRC) and a 5 link Solid Live Axle. The version in India – the Alturas G4 – is the Solid Axle version. I wonder if Mahindra did the right thing by choosing the solid axle. While it does provide an advantage in off-road use, most of the use of this premium-ish SUV is on road, where the independent suspension would be better suited. Mahindra probably chose to play is safe considering potential rough usage and our road conditions; also that they might not have wanted to be seen as a soft SUV in comparison to the Fortuner and Endeavour. The IRS, however, would have matched the practical luxury/upmarket cruiser use this has. It would be a rare BoF SUV with an IRS.

Further, the suspension has been custom tuned for India and has resulted in a slightly higher GC (Ground Clearance). Many of the international reviews talked about the ride being a bit stiff. The Indian version (Altruas, that is) didn’t feel so. Presumably, Mahindra increased the articulation, allowing more travel and a softer setup. A job well done. Since my drive was largely on good roads, one could be fooled into thinking that this solid axle was an IRS. I wonder how very good the IRS version would be – likely a delight. Makes the high H5 point more acceptable.

Despite all the praise, I must say that one can feel the road all the time. Even on good roads. Not talking about the gentle ups and downs roads often have across a few meters, but the smaller ones which might happen over a meter, and even the small undulations. Even good roads, where much “lesser” cars would insulate you from those, are felt in the Alturas. It is not like a Seltos or other smaller stiff-suspension ride. You feel it much lesser. Just that you do feel it, when the overall sophistication of the vehicle makes you think that it should not be felt. One is tempted to say: BoF (Body on Frame), however the Hexa and Innova come to mind. Larger potholes etc are felt like many other regular cars with large tyres on slow speeds. It handled speed breakers well when checked at low and moderate speeds.

I did manage to drive it on the turn I like to test cars on. It was confidence inspiring. The suspension is really well tuned to handle much, and remain composed. In terms of control, predictability, and confidence, considering it’s height/high-CoG, I rate it highly. A very well tuned suspension, especially for a Solid Axle. Some reviewers said that it’s feel is quite close to a unibody (monocoque), and I felt the same.

This is a tall vehicle with 244mm GC (unladen), and that it is a BoF vehicle, the expectations of ride+handling+control are rather low. This car was a revelation. The ride does have the smaller undulations issue, mentioned earlier. Besides that, it is rather comfortable, and very well controlled. You don’t expect it to be hatch-agile in handling, of course, but for it’s type of vehicle, it is quick, confident, and with limited body-roll. One also feels a fairly good sense of connect with the vehicle at higher speeds – not ideal, but yes, it is good. Given the context, I give it high marks for handling and control. The chassis, the sense of weight distribution, and the suspension all score well. I expect it’s chassis (81% high strength steel) to be a significant reason for it. IIRC, it also did well in the chassis flex test.

The bodyroll in the Scropio-N was probably lesser, but one didn’t connect with that vehicle. That gave me a sense of the vehicle going from being in control to being out of control with much lesser warning that one would want. The Alturas had a bit more bodyroll, I think. It did not give me that uneasy feeling I got in the Scropio-N. It also has to do with the steering. It felt a more mature product; a lot more – something I expect of cars with many years of experience and fine-tuning, which the Ssangyong doe have under it’s belt, with it being the oldest major car-maker of Korea, and one which is focused on SUVs and has had technical collaborations with Mercedes Benz to gain from in the past.

The second row ride was good, and unlike most, not much worse than the front seat. Kudos! One is recommended to keep seat belts on, as on hard braking you could well lunge forward; more so after the Cyrus Mistry mishap and the consequent rules.

Side note: The large tyres give a different sort of ride advantage to such cars (SUVs), but on typical runs, the Optra Magnum felt better than pretty much all of them! It would surely be at a disadvantage on bigger potholes though. Knowing that one can manage bigger potholes and the higher GC, one can drive in a different manner, and that is value these bigger cars bring over the beloved Optra Magnum.

~~~~~~~

Ssangyong Rexton Rear Wheel Independent Suspension version:





~~~~~~~

Mahindra Alturas Dependent/Solid Live Axle Suspension (the Scorpio N has somewhat similar, but has a Watt's Link instead of a Panrod.

[Poitive]

Whom has the Ssangyong Rexton G4 aimed at?

The approach towards interiors is of luxury. Could make a Fortuner look rather utilitarian. This one is pretty good off-road based on the videos I saw online. The one linked below is it trying out some rough terrain with a Toyota LC Prado. However, it is not seem to be ideal one for off-road conditions either, based on it’s approach and departure angles.

While it is good on off-road situations, as seen in the video below, I really think it is not made for hardcore off-road. It appears to be targeted for those who go into rough terrain, and for the somewhat affluent rural folk in counties like Australia and UK. It is good for camp-sites, and semi-formed rural terrain. It has a towing capacity of 3500kgs, which would put many to shame, despite it’s engine only being 2200cc. It is also good on tarmac. So, I think they designed it to be fairly good for different surfaces, without totally excelling in any – a good balance. It also has interior quality which is way better than what one might expect at the price. Think of it as a “poor man’s” Range Rover from a decade ago with a BoF structure, maybe? The screenshot below brought a smile.



In India, it works as a highway cruiser; also well suited for the affluent who live in, or need to travel regularly on broken roads and a BoF vehicle is useful. Some of the Asian reviews too talked of it as the Asian Range Rover or Mercedes (perhaps a part of the media-handout in those countries).

Mahindra Alturas G4 (Ssangyong Rexton G4 - Y400) - Summary

• Though not to everyone’s taste, I find it an understated exterior design with much sophistication, with some flourishes in the interior (tan+black) makes it a plush looking car. Well appointed interiors, a class above competition.
• Large on the outside, wide on the inside too; second row legroom though adequate, not as much as size suggests. Second row headroom could be an issue for tall folks due to sunroof-protrusion. Third row only for kids, shorter people, or occasional use.
• High floor; tedious ingress-egress as many tall vehicles; not ideal for back issues or older adults. Overall, good ergonomics – armrests, soft touches, seat adjustments (lacks lumbar support) etc.
• Road surface and it’s small undulations are usually felt - not a typically push ride; yet a confident ride due to it handling bigger undulations very well. High speeds improves ride a whole lot.
• It is in the zone over about 75kmph, with good feel, much improved ride, good dynamics. One really connects with the vehicle a lot better at higher speeds.
• Except smaller undulations at city-speeds, a very good suspension with good comfort and, for it’s height, excellent control, composure, handling and even high speed agility. Good for the city, great for the highway.
• (Likely) Has a ‘special’ steering – an Electro-Hydraulic Steering – one which allows you to get low speed comfort, yet get higher speed feel, feedback, and connect. More feel at lower speeds desired. Would not tire you in long highway or city drives.
• AT is one used in the S-Class Mercs untill 2017; is almost seamless at gentle cruising speeds, but is unpredictable and slow when one wants to rush and floor the accelerator. Not sporty.
• Scored 5 stars in KNCAP (Korean NCAP)

(Almost) Closing Comments

I am not particularly impressed by the looks of the newer international version, the Y450, which is loud and somewhat resembles the MG Gloster, thanks to it’s oversized front grille and proportions. The Alturas G4 (Ssangyong Rexton G4 – Y400) is one vehicle, I felt, which has character. The kind which does not need to announce it’s presence, while being reassured of it’s personality – something I truly love, in both, cars and people; enough for me to write up as much on this, despite it being recently discontinued - a bit of a tribute to this one.

Looking Ahead - The Future of Ssangyong and Alturas

I say this from memory and based on some talks with people in the industry, so do not take these as set in stone. Ssangyong had almost gone bankrupt (not uncommon in the car world at all), but IIRC it is under some form of protection under Korean Laws which saves it by government intervention, and ended up under Court Receivership. There was a US based company which Mahindra was selling it's stake to (some bus company, IIRC), but it didn't go through. Now a consortium is expected to invest in it, and as far as I know Mahindra has limited say in the matter due to how the laws are structured. It is up to the courts and the Ssangyong management. Who knows that like the previous attempt, this too does not go through, and Mahindra benefits from the engineering maturity Ssangyong has, with a renewed partnership, potentially bringing us vehicles which are well made in sensible money. While I do hope for this, it probably is wishful thinking.

Mahindra picked up much from the Ssangyong Rexton G4/Alturas G4 in developing the XUV700 and even more so the Scorpio N (which, to me, came across partly as a cheaper and less mature version/copy of the Alturas G4 with changes for the Indian market.)


OT: Let this review, please, not form any basis for expectations for the upcoming Ownership Review, for which I have not been able to spend enough time. This took too long, despite having a rough draft, but somehow I felt a need to write this. The ownership review might have a very different character and approach.

[Poitive]

Links and Pictures

I had numerous in my dump. Have casually selected a few. They may not be well organized.

For those looking from the Off-Road perspective, do see this one. Pitted against a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 2018. Some subtitles are there, for the rest one can use subtitles and translations as needed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2hKpOjEv7o

Alturas G4 vs Comparison. Cardekho. Hindi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcgQP1xSmks

Australian Comparison of the segment. The G4 was rated second, for whatever it is worth. Do bear in mind that the Indian version has a different suspension/suspension tuning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XPxmaSfbIck

A series of pictures, which should be self explanatory.
Rights with respective owners.
They include: Screenshots from the Australian and CarDekho comparisons besides other stuff.












A view from inside:



AC vents below front seats:




FE from CarDekho and Overdrive:




















Was difficult to find the Kerb Weight, but eventually found it!
(The Indian variant would have minor changes)

















From another video:












Not sure if the car makes the lady look puny, or the lady make the car look like a behemoth!

[Kosfactor]

As far as I know this vehicle is not on sale now here, I am not sure if it would come back anytime soon. The expectations from Mahindra is a lot more now than those days.

I considered this vehicle some years ago given the number of Mahindra vehicles I have owned and purchased for others. The feedback from their own techs is that this vehicle is more of a Mercedes than a Mahindra, you cannot treat it like a Scorpio in other words.

I also inspected this vehicle back in the days on the workshop lift and was not impressed with the mechanical bits underneath, for its price I expected better built, more expensive components and things to be tucked in well in comparison to something like a Scorpio \ Bolero etc which are proven to be very durable.

The body on top, the interiors, exterior bits and bobs, they all felt very well made at that time.

[SARCASTICTRAVLR]

This is my first ever post so please excuse me if I am not professional and apt while writing this.

I have been Owning a Wagon R VXI 2018 Model done around 1.1 Lakh KMS on that. Also it is used as a secondary car as I also own a Ertiga VDI 2020 BS-4 Model. Have done almost 1.4 Lakh Kms on the Ertiga. I am into some automobile business and my work requires me to travel a lot. Sometimes it can be 300-400 odd kms in a day. I also like to go for some drives once in a 3-4 months time and that can be around 2000 odd kms in 3-4 days. My work drives are 70 % chauffeur Driven while my weekend or vacation drives are almost 90 % driven by me. Looking at all of the above I am looking for a replacement of my Wagon R with a proper good Compact SUV or SUV that can give me both driving pleasure and feel of luxury, comfort and should also make a statement. This will not be a second car unlike the Wagon R and will become my primary Car while leaving out my ertiga for my dad and family most of the time.

It is very interesting how I started test driving vehicles with a mind set of budget around 15 lakhs from a Toyota Hyryder Urban Cruiser and not being able to find the thrill have even test driven a Mercedes GLA.

Here is my test drive story :-
I had a budget in mind so started the test drive hunt by

1) Toyota Urban Cruiser Hyryder (Automatic Strong Hybrid) - liked the vehicle initially with its crisp performance and good interiors and exteriors. But as I was looking for something more I continued my test drive quest.

2) Maruti Suzuki Grand Vitara Strong Hybrid Automatic - the interiors were good, car looked ok. But mediocre built quality didn't impress me much. No test drive vehicle available at Nexa Magneto Mall Raipur. So couldn't take a call on same.

3) MG Astor Automatic Petrol - Liked the performance power, interiors everything in the car but the car is not a proper SUV or not even a compact one. Also MG being known for its very less mileage I am sceptical about the brand.

4) Tata Harrier (Initial Test Drive) - So Initially I took the test drive at Raipur Showroom Bhashin Motors. We test drove both the manual and automatic varient but felt a lot of lag in power. I asked the executive whether it was this car or it is with all the Harriers. But he could not answer us. So we initially ruled this option out.

5) Jeep Compass (4 by 4) (Automatic) - The built quality is awesome. The 2 Litre Engine can really give you the kick you require. Best part is the independent suspension even at the rear which makes it a cake walk in uneven roads. This test drive change my mindset towards owning a new car and I actually started considering this car. Overall an awesome drive. But then as a confused Indian Buyer I wanted to explore more so

6) Hyundai Creta - Didn't get the test drive at Shankra Hyundai Raipur. The waiting list for creta is almost 3-4 months which is very high for a car which has many replacements like Kia Seltos in the market. I was actually waiting for the facelift of Creta in 2023 but Hyundai Disappointed me by not launching the same this year. The present creta is good value for money but after the Jeep Compass Drive my mind started searching for reasons not to buy a creta. And it got enough reasons from old looks to mediocre 1.5 litre Diesel Engine.

7) BMW X1 - Now since I have driven almost all the cars of normal segment but liked A Jeep Compass which is almost luxury. I thought when I have to spend 35 Lakhs for a non badge car let me try for the badge ones. Though it would be a very high budget jump of almost Rs 17 Lakhs but then thanks to Bank Loans and EMIs I still started considering One. So went to this BMW Showroom In Raipur (Munich Motors) in my Wagon R. The salesman was very quick to judge that ohh a guy in a Wagon R won't buy a BMW. He showed very less interest and denied Test Drive by saying he had no Test Drive Vehicles Available with him. I asked him even the X3 or anything in the Sedan is available for the test drive but he still said sorry we sold all our test drive vehicles and we may not get any before February. Quite strange for a luxury car showroom. May be they judged me for owning a Wagon R. Though I really loved BMW somehow I managed to take out the information that a New BMW X1 is in line to be launched on 28th January. When I told the salesman about my background and business then he actually started taking interest and showed us some cars but no test drive. But I still told him to inform me when the new BMW X1 launches. Though after the launch as everyone now knows the new X1 has now only 150 bhp power at a whopping cost of around 55 lakhs on road. I was quick to drop the decision to buy one. Since no test drive at the BMW we went on to other two luxury brands Volvo and Mercedes. Audi was out of my choice as I was never looking for a petrol engine.

8) Volvo XC 40 - Went to Raipur Volvo Showroom. The sales lady was very attentive and non judgemental. Instead of we coming in a Wagon R she offered us her full attention and also gave us demo of both XC-40 & XC-60. But unfortunately no vehicles were available with them as all had gone for an event to Nagpur. Which was genuine enough. The showroom has best hospitality and an awesome Coffee. They took my number and said they will call back once the cars are there but they never did to my surprise. So Volvo was out again for No Test Drive and Poor Followup.

9) Mercedes Benz GLA - The Raipur Mercedes Showroom has the largest number of Test Drive Vehicles. Best of the sales Executives and very non judgemental attitude. Mr. Sahil Sharma the sales executive who attended us was lighting fast in giving us an awesome and long test drive experience of the GLA Diesel. Loved the vehicle the power the crispness in performance the ambient lighting the interiors and almost everything about the car. Instead of we entering the showroom at almost 7:00 PM Sahil didn't show any kind of resistance in giving us a test drive, also he did give us a full tour of the showroom along with experience of the S Class, GLC, AMG GLA, E Class & C Class. This showroom and even more the Sales Executive has impressed me the most of all. He was quick to follow up and sent me all the finance proposals, pricing and also gave me a lot of follow up calls. I loved his enthusiasm and just because the way he treated me. If I would buy any luxury badge in future it would be a Mercedes. I just dropped the GLA from my list because I didn't quite like the Tail Lite and also Found it a bit smaller compared to other luxury brands of same entry level range. Badge value was not coming from the looks. Probably in future if I buy it would be either a GLC, EQB or E Class. But I think that's another 3 years away. All my heart and appreciation for Mr Sahil and Mercedes Benz Raipur. Thanks for everything.

After all these experience I became more confused coming home frustrated and started taking suggestions. Everyone ruled out Jeep because it was way too pricey and suggested me to take a test drive of Grand Vitara Hybrid Automatic and Finalize the same.

10) Grand Vitara Strong Hybrid Automatic - Rajnandgaon Sparsh Maruti arranged for a test drive on my call. I and many of my cousins together took a test drive of the car but we're very quick in just saying it is similar to what we drive right now the Ertiga or the Wagon R. So if we want the same quality go for it but then the top model came at 22 Lakhs on road which made it a very pricey proposition. Thus Vitara Ruled Out.

11) Jeep Compass 4 by 2 Manual - I called up Jeep Raipur and asked them if they can arrange for a test drive of Manual Jeep Compass at Rajnandgaon as everyone at home thought the 4 by 4 Automatic was a very expensive option and if I want a Jeep I should go for a Manual Which costed around 30 Lakhs. So all of us cousins went for a test drive arranged by Jeep Raipur at Rajnandgaon (Distance around 80 Kms). Everyone was very impressed with the vehicle, the power, the quality of built, the interiors, the suspensions were amazing. Everyone liked the vehicle and we almost wanted to close the booking but again research showed many customers experiencing the rattling noise in the vehicle. This had many doubts in my mind. Me spending 30 Lakhs and getting rattling noise is something I don't want. So halted the decision and everyone said be sensible and go for a Creta Diesel Automatic. So I called up Hyundai Rajnandgaon and called a creta for test drive.

12) Hyundai Creta Diesel Automatic - This time Shivnath Hyundai Rajnandgaon gave us a test drive. Again it's good value for money but lacks the appeal and frankly after driving a compass this feels very under powered and light. Now someone suggested go for an XUV 700.

13) XUV 700 Automatic Diesel - The vehicle is totally made of fibre body to make it lighter. The fibre on the exteriors are so light that you can actually dent them with a single finger like a plastic. Built quality is very poor, lot of engine noise inside the cabin, no driving pleasure, under powered engine and very poor suspension. Immediately ruled it out and gave the same feedback to the executive.

Now being more convinced of Jeep or BMW or Merc or nothing. One of my cousins who owns a Harrier suggested me to take a test drive of Harrier once again and then decide. So this time we called up Rajnandgaon Sai Ram Tata Showroom for test drive of Harrier.

14) Harrier Diesel Automatic - This time the salesman was experienced enough to give a better test drive experience of the harrier. He told us about the modes. Let us drive in different modes. Loved the Sports Mode it actually revs up engine and gives the harrier it's real power. The built quality is awesome, Almost no Cabin Noise, Suspensions are as good as a Jeep Compass, Features are rich, Interiors are posh, Widest and Largest Panoramic Sun and Moon Roof. Overall an awesome Car. Only let down is its weight, size and heavy hydraulic steerings. Due to its weight the Harrier is sluggish in city and eco mode and feels to be underpowered for its weight or it may be due to its traction control that's always on I think. Also the handling feels tough due to heavy steering and bulky size. Still it is a good buy with top Model at 26 Lakhs On Road.

So Now The Big Question:-
Which one should I Buy -
Jeep Compass 4 by 2 Manual (30 Lakhs)
Jeep Compass 4 by 4 Automatic (34 Lakhs)
Tata Harrier Automatic Top Varient (26 Lakhs)
Anything Else If Suggested By A BHPian

My requirements are as below :-
1) Engine Power Must Be Good Mostly Above 1.5 Litre and 120 BHP

2) Built Quality Must Be Good With 5 Star Safety Rating and 6 Airbags Minimum

3) Panaromic Sun / MoonRoof

4) Cabin Noise Must Be Minimal

5) Comfortable For Rear Seats Passengers or should have very Good Suspensions

6) Good Ground Clearance

7) Don't want to cross 35 Lakhs Now In Budget otherwise would love to go for a Luxury Brand Badge

8) Necessarily Should give a feel of SUV

9) Should make a unique style statement along with an attitude

10) Should be a fun to drive and also comfortable to sit inside Car

11) Alloy Wheels Must

12) Good Headlights for My Longer Drives of 800 Kms a Day for Holidays

13) Decent Mileage in Diesel and Also Not Very High Maintenance Cost

14) Will Keep The Car For Atleast 4 Years So Shouldn't Feel Bored With It's Style, Drive, Comfort, Interiors, Technology And Looks

Please Sort Out My Confusion and Suggest Me A Solution For The Same. So that I can Book my bigtime upgrade from a Wagon R to something more substantial.

Thanks in Advance
Regards
Vipul