[abs182]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

I was in for a surprise when I checked Toyota Fortuer's price list. Within a year of the launch of the facelifted version, Toyota has silently raised the price by almost 1.5L. That is around a cool 7% increase in the price! Somehow as much as your heart wants the Fortuner, your mind does not allow it looking at the VFM equation.

I too got a shock when I went to check out the price. Now the additional price hike plus the showroom staff told me a further increase is imminent after the budget it really has thrown in a a spanner in plans to buy one. Now I'm really considering a MT CRV and the cost saved will supplement the fuel cost. Still am confused.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by abs182

I too got a shock when I went to check out the price. Now the additional price hike plus the showroom staff told me a further increase is imminent after the budget it really has thrown in a a spanner in plans to buy one. Now I'm really considering a MT CRV and the cost saved will supplement the fuel cost. Still am confused.

IMHO and to put it bluntly, I really don't think the Fortuner makes any sense anymore at its current price point. Agreed people are still buying it like crazy but if I spend 25L on a car I would expect a lot of features etc which the Fortuner basically lacks. Its only USP is reliability but then its not like the other offerings in that price brakcet would leave you stranded on the road.

As far as petrol SUV is considered even if financially it might make sense, to me its the agony of spending those 3-4k every week on petrol that pinches. Psychologically that is. I would be bugged to such an extent that I might start avoiding taking the car out much and finally it would take a lot away from the ownership experience. But then thats how I think. If the deal appeals to you than go ahead with the CRV. Its surely a great car.

Do check out the Outlander, Merc B class. Also you may want to try and find out if there are any old BMW X1's lying around. Last I heard they were being offered at mouthwatering prices.

[eq24]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

IMHO and to put it bluntly, I really don't think the Fortuner makes any sense anymore at its current price point. Agreed people are still buying it like crazy but if I spend 25L on a car I would expect a lot of features etc which the Fortuner basically lacks. Its only USP is reliability but then its not like the other offerings in that price brakcet would leave you stranded on the road.

I don't understand this, lets see Pajero sports is more expenisve than Fortuner but offers less, Captiva is more but gives less, Santa fe is more and again gives less, the same can be said about the Koleos, X trail, and whatever other offering is there in this space.

It's not that the competition is doling out much more for a lesser price point, come to think of it almost all of these cars don't deserve the price but still for what it is the Fortuner does work out the most reasonable.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by eq24

I don't understand this, lets see Pajero sports is more expenisve than Fortuner but offers less, Captiva is more but gives less, Santa fe is more and again gives less, the same can be said about the Koleos, X trail, and whatever other offering is there in this space.

No I didn't mean to say that the vehicle is overpriced compared to prices elsewhere. The atrocious prices in India is something that I can digest. What I meant to say is that cars like the CRV, Captiva and Santa FE ( in particular) offer you so much more in terms of features and the feel of luxury. Compared to that the Fortuner feels like a bare bones SUV to me usually described by the word Utilitarian rather than Luxury. Yes it might be the vehicle for you if you go off-roading but then I doubt if the OP needs that. For just the space and ability to drive on Indian highways I sincerely feel that the other SUVs are more justified at those price tags.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by eq24

I don't understand this, lets see Pajero sports is more expenisve than Fortuner but offers less, Captiva is more but gives less, Santa fe is more and again gives less, the same can be said about the Koleos, X trail, and whatever other offering is there in this space.

It's not that the competition is doling out much more for a lesser price point, come to think of it almost all of these cars don't deserve the price but still for what it is the Fortuner does work out the most reasonable.

PS is only few 1000's costlier than TFort.

For the bad a.s.s. of PS you get good ride quality compared to TFort's bumpy.

Koleos looks smaller and guess pricer.

Only if they TFort had a more better ride quality for the price one pays :(

And why dont we see Koleos/PS/Captiva more on road? Price? Yet to TD these and wondering if I should.

[eq24]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

The atrocious prices in India is something that I can digest. What I meant to say is that cars like the CRV, Captiva and Santa FE ( in particular) offer you so much more in terms of features and the feel of luxury. Compared to that the Fortuner feels like a bare bones SUV to me usually described by the word Utilitarian rather than Luxury.

But see who in India spare a few buy a car for what it can do for them, most buy a car for what they can do with it.
The Fortuner only sells for one reason and that is Perception, somewhere along the launch or maybe even before it, Toyota became a brand in India and a big brand at that, coupled with the looks and the reliability and the go anywhere do anything kind of personification of the Fortuner, made it a must have for people who did not even need it in the first place. So many people I know who would be happier in an Accord or a Superb or even a Camry go for a Fortuner. It's just the perception nothing else.
For that matter even the Endeavour and the Pajero sports have a perception of being the real SUV's. Yes all the three have their flaws but the Perception is such that people look past all that and sign the dotted line.

Just to recollect an incident which was surprising to me, at a Gurgaon Toyota dealership, a Fortuner was booked by a family without even taking a test drive, heck they did not even look at the car. And no they had no idea of the car or the drive quality or the comfort, the only consoling thing was that the head of the family had been chauffered around once in a friends Fortuner and he had then decided to go for the Fortuner and nothing but. I remember the kids were aching for a TD but the father just said "itne log khareed te hain, waiting hai, buri gadi thori hai" and that was it.

The Captiva and the Santa Fe must be amazing cars better even then the three above but they have one thing against them and this is perception.
If you go to interiors of Punjab or Haryana or even Himachal, Hyundai is still associated with the Santro. And I am not saying that the Santro was a bad car or the i10, i20 or Verna for that matter were bad cars but they stop at that and spending 25 lakh + for a Hyundai becomes an unthinkable thing. Chevrolet is even worse. Take the Rexton then for what it is, it is a wonderful piece of kit and priced competitively too but again perception is non existent at the moment.
I too for one really hope that this changes, for only when this so called perception goes away we can mature as a market and can hope for better and more competitive offerings.

Originally Posted by jkdas

PS is only few 1000's costlier than TFort.

For the bad a.s.s. of PS you get good ride quality compared to TFort's bumpy.

Koleos looks smaller and guess pricer.

Only if they TFort had a more better ride quality for the price one pays :(

And why dont we see Koleos/PS/Captiva more on road? Price? Yet to TD these and wondering if I should.

No PS is not just 1000's costlier it is 100000's costlier, for I know that you are right and in a perfect world only comparing like for like works so then yes the PS and the Fortuner 4WD is the right comparison but in reality even the 2WD manual is a Fortuner and is around 1.5 to 2 lakhs cheaper. And if someone just wants in on the Fortuner name he can get it for way less.

[vijay shekar]

Gentlemen

Pl let me join and add to the confusion of choosing which 7 seater SUV

I have been driving a Pajero GLS for the past 5 years and now wanted to change , so have been looking at all the models on offer and still am confused .

My experience

Pajero GLS - great SUV –reliable mechanicals. cannot compete on highways with new generation suv's. slow car . planning to dispose it soon.

Santa fe – Did a TD on MT . a drivers SUV. Great handling and sprightly engine. But people say 30 lacks for a Hyundai ???? – would have been my choice if we had no news of the new model being launched soon

Captiva – Did a TD on 6 AT new version – liked the mechanicals and sprightliness (0 to 100 in less than 10 secs) but felt the car a bit heavy and not agile – learnt from reviews that the steering feels vague at high speeds ( this is troubling) . Service is also an issue I learnt.

Pajero Sport – did a TD . good mechanicals and enduring – good off roader but not luxurious and no AT ( 0 to 100 12 secs plus) slow for me.

Isuzu MU – 7 – huge vehicle , driver / passenger seat not comfortable , no electric adjustments no AT . no VFM . no TD available.

Rexton – no TD available – VFM but review says handling at high speeds not good – engine noisy. Service and spares no idea . So not interested

Honda CRV new – 5 seater , great looking – great features , reliable - but PETROL . I would share the “agony of spending those 3-4k every week on petrol” . No TD available. cost diff between a model without AVN ( audio video unit) and one with AVN - 1. 8 lacs!!!!!

Fortuner – great mechanicals , good service , No 4wd in AT , not as sprightly as captiva/ rexton/crv/santafe ( 0 to 100 12 seconds plus) slow car.

BMW x1 sdrive 20d – did a TD – great car ( not an suv ) 5 seater , great handling , they say 15 + Kms per lit , great features, low end model 34 lacks on road high end model 39 lacs on road – worried about spares cost – no spare wheel . Rear seat comfort not good. ( 0 to 100 less than 8 secs !!!).


Finally decided to wait for the New Santa fe to launch - they say some time in June.

[satan]

Originally Posted by vijay shekar

Gentlemen

Pl let me join and add to the confusion of choosing which 7 seater SUV

I have been driving a Pajero GLS for the past 5 years and now wanted to change , so have been looking at all the models on offer and still am confused .

My experience

Pajero GLS - great SUV –reliable mechanicals. cannot compete on highways with new generation suv's. slow car . planning to dispose it soon.

Santa fe – Did a TD on MT . a drivers SUV. Great handling and sprightly engine. But people say 30 lacks for a Hyundai ???? – would have been my choice if we had no news of the new model being launched soon

Captiva – Did a TD on 6 AT new version – liked the mechanicals and sprightliness (0 to 100 in less than 10 secs) but felt the car a bit heavy and not agile – learnt from reviews that the steering feels vague at high speeds ( this is troubling) . Service is also an issue I learnt.

Pajero Sport – did a TD . good mechanicals and enduring – good off roader but not luxurious and no AT ( 0 to 100 12 secs plus) slow for me.

Isuzu MU – 7 – huge vehicle , driver / passenger seat not comfortable , no electric adjustments no AT . no VFM . no TD available.

Rexton – no TD available – VFM but review says handling at high speeds not good – engine noisy. Service and spares no idea . So not interested

Honda CRV new – 5 seater , great looking – great features , reliable - but PETROL . I would share the “agony of spending those 3-4k every week on petrol” . No TD available. cost diff between a model without AVN ( audio video unit) and one with AVN - 1. 8 lacs!!!!!

Fortuner – great mechanicals , good service , No 4wd in AT , not as sprightly as captiva/ rexton/crv/santafe ( 0 to 100 12 seconds plus) slow car.

BMW x1 sdrive 20d – did a TD – great car ( not an suv ) 5 seater , great handling , they say 15 + Kms per lit , great features, low end model 34 lacks on road high end model 39 lacs on road – worried about spares cost – no spare wheel . Rear seat comfort not good. ( 0 to 100 less than 8 secs !!!).


Finally decided to wait for the New Santa fe to launch - they say some time in June.

I like the way you dismiss most of the above SUVs (calling them slow) basis their 0 - 100kmph times. You should seriously consider the AMG G55 or the newer G63.

[Sheel]

Before purchasing a SUV in this range, determine, whether you want a monocoque chassis soft-roader or a ladder on frame design.

There is no best of both worlds here.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by eq24

The Fortuner only sells for one reason and that is Perception

The Captiva and the Santa Fe must be amazing cars better even then the three above but they have one thing against them and this is perception.

+1. But being a BHPian one would expect us to be more rational and logical in our car buying process. And since the OP wants this car to chauffeur his dad 50% of the times I feel Fortuner is a bad choice. I recently happened to sit in a Santa FE and it blew me away. If you can live with the price tag ( not sure about the exact OTR) then it trumps the Tfort, when it comes to OP's requirements. Captiva comes very close to it too.

Quoting another BHPian from a differentthread:

Try Renault Koleos. A friend has bought it and is super happy with it. Has premium features, optional 4x4, automatic transmission, Bose music system, Stanley leather seats et all and quite economical too, according to him.

This is what I expect from a car after paying so much, ofcourse provided I am not into off-roading.

[jkdas]

Originally Posted by eq24

No PS is not just 1000's costlier it is 100000's costlier, for I know that you are right and in a perfect world only comparing like for like works so then yes the PS and the Fortuner 4WD is the right comparison but in reality even the 2WD manual is a Fortuner and is around 1.5 to 2 lakhs cheaper. And if someone just wants in on the Fortuner name he can get it for way less.

I was looking at the 4x4 versions and hence ( yes there is a difference of 30-40k between these even)

Originally Posted by vijay shekar

Gentlemen

Pl let me join and add to the confusion of choosing which 7 seater SUV


Finally decided to wait for the New Santa fe to launch - they say some time in June.

Wrong guy to get SUV imho

Originally Posted by drmohitg

+1. But being a BHPian one would expect us to be more rational and logical in our car buying process. And since the OP wants this car to chauffeur his dad 50% of the times I feel Fortuner is a bad choice. I recently happened to sit in a Santa FE and it blew me away. If you can live with the price tag ( not sure about the exact OTR) then it trumps the Tfort, when it comes to OP's requirements. Captiva comes very close to it too.

Quoting another BHPian from a differentthread:
This is what I expect from a car after paying so much, ofcourse provided I am not into off-roading.

Have to check Captiva and Koleos.

[n.devdath]

Originally Posted by jkdas

For the bad a.s.s. of PS you get good ride quality compared to TFort's bumpy.

Not really. I haven't seen many people complain about Mitsu's ASC levels. Of course, the absence of them in most places is a different matter altogether.

Originally Posted by jkdas

Koleos looks smaller and guess pricer.

Only if they TFort had a more better ride quality for the price one pays :(

And why dont we see Koleos/PS/Captiva more on road? Price? Yet to TD these and wondering if I should.

The Koleos is an excellent car. The downer: Looks, price and the lack of road presence.

PS: I saw so many of them up north during my trip this month that I stopped looking at them. This is selling pretty well and I feel it is a very good car, the best in its segment today. The downer: Perception, lack of widespread service network, and the lack of height to seat 3 in the middle row(this is why it didn't suit me specifically).

Captiva: Spacious, AT and reliable. The downer: Not an enthusiast's car/SUV. Boring interiors (just look at that steering wheel and you ll know), average performance and too long in the tooth now. The new front styling now places the bumper scarily close to the ground.

[vijay shekar]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Wrong guy to get SUV imho

.

May i know what's wrong?

[entropy]

Originally Posted by vijay shekar

Santa fe – Did a TD on MT . a drivers SUV. Great handling and sprightly engine. But people say 30 lacks for a Hyundai ???? – would have been my choice if we had no news of the new model being launched soon

If serious off-roading is not one of your requirement and cost is also not an issue as compared to getting the best in class then I'd suggest to wait for the new Santa-Fe. Generally I have read only positives about the new Santa-Fe where Hyundai seems to have worked on the refinement, quality and safety improvements that are several notches higher as compared to the earlier generation.

I'm also eagerly waiting for this updated model as it was one of the safest car of 2012 based on Euro NCAP scores. However do expect a significant upward revision in the prices compared to current gen (in India) Santa-Fe. My guess is it would be somewhere in 28-30L ex-showroom ballpark if and when it comes here.

[vijay shekar]

Originally Posted by entropy

If serious off-roading is not one of your requirement and cost is also not an issue as compared to getting the best in class then I'd suggest to wait for the new Santa-Fe. Generally I have read only positives about the new Santa-Fe where Hyundai seems to have worked on the refinement, quality and safety improvements that are several notches higher as compared to the earlier generation.

I'm also eagerly waiting for this updated model as it was one of the safest car of 2012 based on Euro NCAP scores. However do expect a significant upward revision in the prices compared to current gen (in India) Santa-Fe. My guess is it would be somewhere in 28-30L ex-showroom ballpark if and when it comes here.

Thanks for the info on safety features. I only hope the on road price does not cross 30 lacs.