[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

I bought my car, KWID 1.0L, on the 28th March 2017. Yesterday, that is the 14th April 2017, we went on a small road trip to a nearby hill station, Pune-Panchgani-Mahabaleshwar-Panchgani-Pune, with 4 adults and 2 kids on board.

Your car was certainly overheating. It's nearly 41 C in Pune now.

Now which component actually caused this failure is still debatable. I could think of something as trivial as vapor lock (sometimes due to low levels of fuel in the tank) or the engine oil breaking down (heat and stress of climbing the hills) and affecting the engine.

It's a brand new car with a small 1L engine and if I were you I'd have waited for at least the running-in of 1000 kms to be completed before driving into hilly areas with a full complement of passengers.

Go easy on the car during the running in mate And let us know what the dealer has to say.

[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Your car was certainly overheating. It's nearly 41 C in Pune now.

Now which component actually caused this failure is still debatable. I could think of something as trivial as vapor lock (sometimes due to low levels of fuel in the tank) or the engine oil breaking down (heat and stress of climbing the hills) and affecting the engine.

It's a brand new car with a small 1L engine and if I were you I'd have waited for at least the running-in of 1000 kms to be completed before driving into hilly areas with a full complement of passengers.

Go easy on the car during the running in mate And let us know what the dealer has to say.

Yes definitely it over heated. That's what I also presumed from the symptoms. But then had I been staying at Mahabaleshwar, wouldn't I take the car out? Infact in that case, the climbing etc would have been more frequent. The only restrictions that I have understood is that I should not rev the engine hard and stay within the 80kmph till the first servicing, (2000km/2months)

My simple logic says that once the threshold was reached (if at all that was the case), it should have been detected and driver to be warned. Modern cars definitely have built in features for detecting these. Then how come there was an exception this time?



Referring the above image (which was taken sometime in the initial days), in the second column, neither the second nor the third indicator had lit up when this issue was about to happen or when the issue had happened. Was this then an onboard diagnostic failure?

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

Yes definitely it over heated. That's what I also presumed from the symptoms. But then had I been staying at Mahabaleshwar, wouldn't I take the car out?

I thought..err..assumed you live in Pune (at least that's what your profile says) and travelled to Mahabaleshwar with the family for a holiday.

The only restrictions that I have understood is that I should not rev the engine hard and stay within the 80kmph till the first servicing, (2000km/2months)

Engine RPM and engine "load" are different things. I was referring to the latter. You may keep the road speed/engine RPM well within recommended levels but the engine also has to pull a load which equals to the weight of the car and its passengers. This 'load' is increased when running in hilly areas.

The way I run in my cars is I keep the load and RPM at moderate levels. Yeah, I am really careful during the running in but then this pays off later. I know the engine will take whatever I dish out once it has completed about 4-5K kms of 'babying'.

Referring the above image (which was taken sometime in the initial days), in the second column, neither the second nor the third indicator had lit up when this issue was about to happen or when the issue had happened. Was this then an onboard diagnostic failure?

I am not sure how the Kwid is wired up to alert the driver to unusual problems under the bonnet. That said, I have known cars that have experienced catastrophic engine failures (seizures) without so much as an single indication from the dashboard lights.

[mayankk]

Fan coming on is not overheating. It's just heating. Did you lose coolant?
I think for your engine being non responsive, the problem seems to be the wrong gear and load. An overheating engine will not go away like that if you keep driving. It will keep heating to catastrophic failure. I don't know about the kwid, but seeing that it's a recent model, it will have a light that comes on when the engine overheats, rather than a gauge like older cars.

[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by R2D2

I thought..err..assumed you live in Pune (at least that's what your profile says) and travelled to Mahabaleshwar with the family for a holiday.

I am definitely from Pune What I intended to say was, what if I was from Mahabaleshwar and brought the car there? Would that mean that I would not drive the car as the terrain is hilly. Definitely not the case. Yes, saying that, I do understand the fact that one needs to be extra cautious during the run-in period. I am definitely abiding to those. But what completely baffles me is the fact that all of a sudden the engine had stopped, even though due care is always of utmost importance.

Originally Posted by mayankk

Fan coming on is not overheating. It's just heating. Did you lose coolant?
I think for your engine being non responsive, the problem seems to be the wrong gear and load. An overheating engine will not go away like that if you keep driving. It will keep heating to catastrophic failure. I don't know about the kwid, but seeing that it's a recent model, it will have a light that comes on when the engine overheats, rather than a gauge like older cars.

I think I am putting my own words here and that is causing some confusion. Let me jot down the chronological flow of events and that should help all in pin pointing.

1. Post reaching the Mapro Gardens at Panchgani and having a sumptious lunch there, we headed towards Mahabaleshwar.
2. Enroute we saw some points of attraction for which we had to maneuvere a lot in first and second gears.
3. After a few visits to these points, we decided to head towards Arthur point, which is another tourist attraction, but with a dead end.
4. The point is elevated and therefore driving has to be in second gear to compensate the inclination.
5. After disembarking post reaching the spot, we thought of parking the Kwid to a suitable position which would give us an easy exit.
6. Kwid was reversed and parked to a sutiable position, on the right side. But we noticed that there are steps which is getting blocked and therefore Kwid needs to be parked at another suitable location.
7. Within 50 metres there was another sweet spot on the left side of this narrow road. Kwid was driven to this point for parking, in first gear.
8. For facilating a proper flow of traffic, minute adjustments were required and when the Kwid was almost 80% into the slot, while reversing, the car stopped.
9. Turning the ignition key, only gave us the cranking sound with a whine from the bonnet up front.
10. Once the bonnet was opened, I observed that the fan was moving in full speed. The movement of the fan continued, even after the key was removed from the slot.
11. Fellow cab drivers informed me that since this is a new car, might be the engine has over-heated and the car is trying to cool itself with the fan's movement.
12. The fan stopped moving after 5-10 minutes, but car refused to start. The same cranking sound is there. Looks like the engine wants to start but something is stopping it.
13. After another 15 minutes approx, the engine bay is much colder and I could touch some of the parts there with bare hands.
14. After another 5 minutes, and with a flock of onlookers, the engine finally comes to life and we head towards Panchgani for our return journey towards Pune.
15. Yes, coolant level is adequate.

Yesterday, at the showroom I inquired if there is any speed restriction software installed on Kwid and there is none. They have advised me to keep the car with them so that they can check with their KOTAK. But before I hand over the car to them, I want to have the expert advise from here, so that I have a better understanding of the situation / solution. As per the showroom and their technical persons, this is the first time they have heard something like this and therefore they need to take it up with their technical panel.

Before the car was stalled, while the car was stalled and once we were able to move out, there has been no visual / audible warnings for us. And this is what baffles me the most! With so much electronics on board, how can something like this go unnoticed?

Experts please advise as to what might be the possible cause for this and the expected solution?

[techcoze]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

Before the car was stalled, while the car was stalled and once we were able to move out, there has been no visual / audible warnings for us. And this is what baffles me the most! With so much electronics on board, how can something like this go unnoticed?

Experts please advise as to what might be the possible cause for this and the expected solution?

Maybe you can try DIY OBD scanning to check if there are any error codes. If yes, they will provide us valuable pointers

[archat68]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

Experts please advise as to what might be the possible cause for this and the expected solution?

To me it seems like more of a starter problem or a thermostat problem rather than overheating. In most of the car if the engine is hot the fan runs for some time after switching off the engine. It is normal.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

I think I am putting my own words here and that is causing some confusion. Let me jot down the chronological flow of events and that should help all in pin pointing.

Normally an overheated engine leads to steam escaping from the radiator cap. Did you notice any steam?

What I think you should do is:

a) Ask the dealership to connect a OBD/engine scanner to check for any unusual error codes that may have been generated when the engine overheated.

b) Also check for any partial obstruction in the radiator or engine block coolant passages. Yes, this is despite the car being new.

c) Check water pump functions properly

d) Check if drive belts and tensioners are ok. I assume the water pump is belt driven.

c) Check for a faulty radiator temperature sensor (which prevented any warning light on the dashboard switching on) and last but not the least, check the thermostatic valve functions properly.

A car overheating and not starting is not a good sign. Ignoring it could lead to severe engine damage or even seizure. I would strongly suggest you not take your car on long distance runs before this issue is resolved to prevent being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

PS - One more thing, please have the dealer check the engine oil level. And always perform this check yourself before a long distance drive.

[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by techcoze

Maybe you can try DIY OBD scanning to check if there are any error codes. If yes, they will provide us valuable pointers

I am naive in these. Can I do that? How to get the values? Any instruction set available for the same? Let me know if you need me to capture any particular image. I can quickly run down to the basement and capture the same for you. At least let me make something from the Sunday office

Originally Posted by archat68

To me it seems like more of a starter problem or a thermostat problem rather than overheating. In most of the car if the engine is hot the fan runs for some time after switching off the engine. It is normal.

Starter problem? Hmm, that's another pointer I guess! An input for me to mention at the Service Center to clarify if there is any issues with the thermostat / starter motor?

Originally Posted by R2D2

Normally an overheated engine leads to steam escaping from the radiator cap. Did you notice any steam?

No, I did not notice any steam after the bonnet was opened up.

Originally Posted by R2D2

What I think you should do is:

a) Ask the dealership to connect a OBD/engine scanner to check for any unusual error codes that may have been generated when the engine overheated.

Noted. I will definitely ask them if its something I cannot perform on my own. Any particular codes to look at?

Originally Posted by R2D2

b) Also check for any partial obstruction in the radiator or engine block coolant passages. Yes, this is despite the car being new.

c) Check water pump functions properly

d) Check if drive belts and tensioners are ok. I assume the water pump is belt driven.

I understand these will have to be performed at the workshop. Will have these as a checklist for them to check and revert.

Originally Posted by R2D2

c) Check for a faulty radiator temperature sensor (which prevented any warning light on the dashboard switching on) and last but not the least, check the thermostatic valve functions properly.

A car overheating and not starting is not a good sign. Ignoring it could lead to severe engine damage or even seizure. I would strongly suggest you not take your car on long distance runs before this issue is resolved to prevent being stranded in the middle of nowhere.

Thank you for your valuable suggestions. I will surely make a note of these for the service station to check and confirm. Definitely the car is not going for any long drives till this issue is certified to be rectified and the cause identified. Post which the same would be shared here and satisfaction only if the experts here approve of the same.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

No, I did not notice any steam after the bonnet was opened up.

Well, then that's a good sign. Normally indicates the coolant is flowing properly through the cooling system.

Noted. I will definitely ask them if its something I cannot perform on my own. Any particular codes to look at?

Sorry, can't help you there. The codes are car specific and only Renault and their ASCs will have them.

Also, I edited my previous message to add one more point on checking engine oil levels. Very, very important!

[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Well, then that's a good sign. Normally indicates the coolant is flowing properly through the cooling system.

Sorry, can't help you there. The codes are car specific and only Renault and their ASCs will have them.

Also, I edited my previous message to add one more point on checking engine oil levels. Very, very important!

Engine oil level. Got it. Thank you

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

......

I bought my car, KWID 1.0L, on the 28th March 2017. Yesterday, that is the 14th April 2017, we went on a small road trip to a nearby hill station, Pune-Panchgani-Mahabaleshwar-Panchgani-Pune, with 4 adults and 2 kids on board. The distance is approximately 150 kilometers one way, with some steep and lenient ghat sections. There were two observations, for which I need some expert advise. Below are they:
.......

Thank you.

800 cc engine is fine on plains with full load and in hills with a reduced load.

With 4 adults and two kids you have certainly overloaded the car. There is only so much that an 800cc engine can take. Add to that steep slopes and (I assume) slow pace in lower gears the car will certainly over heat. Our M 800 would do so if we loaded it as much and drove up steep slopes. That you have done so during the running in period has pushed the engine over the edge.

I suggest that you load the car less during the running in period, and if you have to use it at slow speeds on steep sections use gears which will run the engine at higher RPM - say 2500 to 3500 and not below 2000,

[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by Aroy

800 cc engine is fine on plains with full load and in hills with a reduced load.

Its 1000 CC. Had it been 800cc, I would not have taken in the first place .

[ashis89]

I heard recently that a Kwid caught fire on the Hyderabad ORR. I don't have information whether it was a 0.8 or a 1.0L one. The staffs at the tollbooth told this when, a couple of weeks back, I stopped to help a family with a Swift whose engine was overheated and was steaming.

Can you check if any other Kwid owner has come back with complaints regarding overheating.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

Its 1000 CC. Had it been 800cc, I would not have taken in the first place .

Then even that is not sufficient for the type of load it was subjected to. As the peak torque is developed at higher RPM, you have to rev the engine up and use 1st or 2nd gear on steep slopes. Here is what a revue has to say :

A three cylinder motor construction that’s utilised by all three cars develop torque of about 90Nm. Kwid develops it higher in the rev range of around 4250rpm, however the Eon and Alto K10 develop it around 3500rpm which should ideally provide them better driveability.

In short on steep slopes with a moderate to full load keep the engine at 3500+ RPM, else the engine will be strained and overheat.