[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

OBD is not designed / programmed in any vehicle to detect and warn about heat soak phenomenon - it'll simply prevent engine start until coolant temperature comes within normal range, which is what happened.

As to the diagnostic abilities of service engineers in India - no comments.

Shamindra Da, any preventive steps possible so as to minimize / remove this heat-soak phenomenon. I understand that it had happened because of the start-stop type of movement and then the stop which might have prevented proper cooling.

But what if the stop (killing the engine) is not unavoidable? Will this phenomenon occur again? Can it be prevented or avoided, say by using a different coolant type or using a pipe which has a bigger cross sectional area.

I am sorry, if this is sounding weird but I lost my sleep for two nights and now I wish I could make use of the office AC to catch on the lost part.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

Shamindra Da, any preventive steps possible so as to minimize / remove this heat-soak phenomenon. I understand that it had happened because of the start-stop type of movement and then the stop which might have prevented proper cooling.

But what if the stop (killing the engine) is not unavoidable? Will this phenomenon occur again? Can it be prevented or avoided, say by using a different coolant type or using a pipe which has a bigger cross sectional area.

I am sorry, if this is sounding weird but I lost my sleep for two nights and now I wish I could make use of the office AC to catch on the lost part.

Let me butt in here again. Firstly you should never modify anything (I really mean anything) in the car when it's under warranty or the warranty will be void.

If this is a result of the heat soak which is highly likely given the circumstances of that journey all I will say again is keep the engine from heating up as much as possible. I've already mentioned what needs to be done during the running-in so won't repeat it again.

Not to worry, your car will be OK. As for the diagnostic capabilities of Indian service centres, less said the better. But you may get lucky and have a good set of blokes examining your car.

Please do report back. I am very curious about this case. Maybe there is a lesson in this for all new car owners. Because the last time I faced this kind of erratic behaviour from a car was with our family Premier Padmini back in the '80s and then with a new Padmini in early 90s.

[Majumdarda]

Originally Posted by R2D2

...
But you may get lucky and have a good set of blokes examining your car.

Please do report back. I am very curious about this case. Maybe there is a lesson in this for all new car owners. Because the last time I faced this kind of erratic behavior from a car was with our family Premier Padmini back in the '80s and then with a new Padmini in early 90s.

Well, with regards to the blokes, they definitely look good from the other side of that paved highway.

I will surely keep the thread updated with the latest as I have gained a lot from this group. It surely would help others for situations like these. Three things for which I am now waiting for their inputs :-

1. Why the engine stalled? (now that I know the root cause, waiting to hear from them)

2. Why the sudden drop in pickup post the stalling (once while climbing uphill and twice while overtaking 16 wheeler.)

3. Why the seat belt warning light is not lighting up if I am driving the car without the seat belt. Yes its irrelevant here, but better to have all points at one place. Want to make sure that all those gizmos up there actually works and is not meant for some colorful lighting effect. I think I heard the guys saying that its meant for the non-India sales cars, along with a couple of others like ABS, etc.

I will keep the thread updated.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

2. Why the sudden drop in pickup post the stalling (once while climbing uphill and twice while overtaking 16 wheeler.)

One word - heat

Better reduced power output than an overheated or seized engine. These are warning signs that you need to be cognizant of.

PS - It is dangerous to overtake when the engine is putting out lower levels of power.

3. Why the seat belt warning light is not lighting up if I am driving the car without the seat belt. Yes its irrelevant here, but better to have all points at one place. Want to make sure that all those gizmos up there actually works and is not meant for some colorful lighting effect. I think I heard the guys saying that its meant for the non-India sales cars, along with a couple of others like ABS, etc.

Yes, some of the lights inside the dashboard are dummies (placeholders) and are used only in certain trim and variants/configurations. As for the seat belt warning light, what does the manual say about it? Is it functional in your particular model variant? If it IS supposed to light up when you do not wear a seat belt then have your dealer investigate why its not functioning as expected. Some cars have beepers that warn the driver and front passenger.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

1. Why the engine stalled? (now that I know the root cause, waiting to hear from them)

2. Why the sudden drop in pickup post the stalling (once while climbing uphill and twice while overtaking 16 wheeler.)

Try turning off the AC compressor in these situations, where you've got a loaded car, high ambient temperature and road conditions that need max power out of the engine. Not a great choice between cooking the engine and cooking the passengers though!

[archat68]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

OBD is not designed / programmed in any vehicle to detect and warn about heat soak phenomenon - it'll simply prevent engine start until coolant temperature comes within normal range, which is what happened.

As to the diagnostic abilities of service engineers in India - no comments.

Isn't ECU supposed to record the incident of overheating? The diagnostic log should provide this as "Warning"

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by archat68

Isn't ECU supposed to record the incident of overheating? The diagnostic log should provide this as "Warning"

Heat soak happens when you switch off - so the ECM doesn't have power supply to record what's happening.

[Majumdarda]

Brought back my car. Till the last moment, company has not been in a position to replicate the issues reported. But on Email, I have been assured the following post their analysis and troubleshooting, "now the vehicle is completely roadworthy & fit to ply on road." Please don't stress much importance on the "now"! As a sweetener, I have been provided a thoroughly cleaned car along with a goodie bag. The outcome of these interactions is some contacts developed, which I am sure would never be required to pull up. Kwid is back in my garage.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Majumdarda

Brought back my car. Till the last moment, company has not been in a position to replicate the issues reported. But on Email, I have been assured the following post their analysis and troubleshooting, "now the vehicle is completely roadworthy & fit to ply on road." Please don't stress much importance on the "now"! As a sweetener, I have been provided a thoroughly cleaned car along with a goodie bag. The outcome of these interactions is some contacts developed, which I am sure would never be required to pull up. Kwid is back in my garage.

They haven't done much, if anything, to the car. Just given it back after some random prodding and poking around under the bonnet which lead to no firm conclusion on what caused the behavior you witnessed on your journey.

Since the baby is back in your garage, just go easy on that engine for a while. Car manufacturers generally recommend 1K kms of running in but you can start stretching those legs gradually over a period of 2-5K kms depending on your patience. Make sure the 1st oil change/service is done on time.

[nishantbhatia84]

Sharing my stressful experience of my Ecosport overheating issues over the last few weeks:
1. One fine evening suddenly the AC cuts off and the engine overheating sign lights up on the dash. I pull over and check - radiator fan ain't working! Facepalm!
2. Get the fan motor fixed, coolant topped up - AC still cuts off and the overheating sign comes up. Double Facepalm! Checked and confirmed that radiator fan is working alright.
3. Turns out the issue was because of air trapped in the cooling system - got that bled and things were looking good.
4. About a week later the same things happen - AC cuts off and radiator fan ain't working.
5. Turns out the fan motor has given up, so get a brand new motor installed - still no go - eh, capacitor faulty as well - replaced that as well. Coolant topped up and bled - now working fine..fingers crossed!
The vehicle in question:
Ford Ecosport 1.5 Petrol AT @ 68k kms
Aftermarket Lovato Sequential KIT installed

[Sidjohri]

Hi all, I own a 2010 SX4 MT ZXI (BS IV) which has clocked slightly over 60k kms. Of late I noticed that the radiator fan never cut out, i.e., it stays on till the time the engine is running. I took it to my trusted maruti authorised service centre where I was told that the coolant is not circulating sufficiently which requires replacement of radiator, thermostat, ac condenser, and hoses. I promptly got this done and spent close to 20k. A week later, same problem with the radiator fan never turning off. The car even overheated twice. MASS people say that that coolant is blowing back and now they want to do a head overhaul which is expected to cost 25k (may go up if head needs to be changed).

Desperately looking for your opinion:

1. do you think the diagnosis is in line with the stated problem?

2. should i go for this repair? - MASS people are dead sure about their approach

3, Is this expected to end my vehicle's cooling / radiator fan issues considering that quite a few components have been replaced already?

Your prompt advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by Sidjohri

Hi all, I own a 2010 SX4 MT ZXI (BS IV) which has clocked slightly over 60k kms. Of late I noticed that the radiator fan never cut out, i.e., it stays on till the time the engine is running. I took it to my trusted maruti authorised service centre where I was told that the coolant is not circulating sufficiently which requires replacement of radiator, thermostat, ac condenser, and hoses. I promptly got this done and spent close to 20k. A week later, same problem with the radiator fan never turning off. The car even overheated twice. MASS people say that that coolant is blowing back and now they want to do a head overhaul which is expected to cost 25k (may go up if head needs to be changed).



ce.

I think you got done by. I would find it very likely that all of these components needing replacing all at the same time. Doesn't make sense at all. Certainly replacing the AC condensor because of a faulty fan doesn't make sense to me.It might well be that their second diagnosis is correct in the sense that your cylinder head gasket is gone and there is now blow back. Ask them to show you how they diagnosed it. Can you see bubbles in the cooling liquid reservoir or did they do a proper pressure test of the system.

Have they checked the cooling pump? Most do wear out over time and need replacing at some time.

You really need to find the root cause of that fan not working properly. Is it the sensor, something electric? Get the car hooked up with a model specific OBD scanner and check for codes before doing anything else!

But it mostly went bad because they did not diagnose the original problem correctly and started replacing bits and pieces just like that.

Good luck,
Jeroen

[honeybee]

Is the AC condenser even related to coolant flow issues?

Seems like a classic case of taking customer for a ride.

[mayankk]

Originally Posted by Sidjohri

Hi all, I own a 2010 SX4 MT ZXI (BS IV) ?

Your prompt advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

I think you've been jacked. Once my thermostat had gone bad so it was removed. This resulted in the radiator fan being on full time.
Second, for the blow back you've been told about, since it's already occurred as per them, the oil and coolant have to be mixed already. Ask them to show you this.
Third, take it to anybody but MASS.

[Sidjohri]

Originally Posted by mayankk

I think you've been jacked. Once my thermostat had gone bad so it was removed. This resulted in the radiator fan being on full time.
Second, for the blow back you've been told about, since it's already occurred as per them, the oil and coolant have to be mixed already. Ask them to show you this.
Third, take it to anybody but MASS.

Thanks Mayankk for your prompt response - I too was in doubt, hence this post in teambhp. In fact the thermostat was also replaced recently along with the other bits. The problem persisted. And now this gasket theory. As suggested I will ask them to show me some sample of the oil and coolant mixing together. I certainly do not want MASS to shoot in the dark and carry out unnecessary repairs.

Originally Posted by honeybee

Is the AC condenser even related to coolant flow issues?

Seems like a classic case of taking customer for a ride.

Thanks for your observation. I just spoke with my service advisor regarding this. He says the condenser fins were worn and there was also some rusting / damage. Hence replaced along with the radiator. I have the old condenser with me, which MASS returned after repairs. I will check and also post pictures just to be sure that it was not replaced unnecessarily.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I think you got done by. I would find it very likely that all of these components needing replacing all at the same time. Doesn't make sense at all. Certainly replacing the AC condensor because of a faulty fan doesn't make sense to me.It might well be that their second diagnosis is correct in the sense that your cylinder head gasket is gone and there is now blow back. Ask them to show you how they diagnosed it. Can you see bubbles in the cooling liquid reservoir or did they do a ...
...
...

Thanks Jeroen for highlighting various possibilities. I will ask them for concrete evidence indicating the need to get the head overhauled. They did mention about plugging the vehicle to their on-board diagnostics before arriving at the 'head overhaul' conclusion. Is there any way I can ask them for the data / analysis?

I will nevertheless insist that being a priority customer (as per MASS maybe since they have already extracted a handful from me over the years from servicing other Maruti cars in the family) they can take my case seriously and take one step at a time to rule out other minor / not so major issues. Cooling pump, as per them, is running fine with no leakage detected.

One more thing - there were 1 or 2 other issues with the car (for the last 3 months or so) before I went for the radiator/condenser/thermostat/hose repair.

1. Engine idle was rough with rpm fluctuating, specifically with the ac off. The vehicle would sometimes jerk / shudder and stall at traffic intersections
2. The vehicle's pick-up became sluggish (as compared to late last year) specifically in gears 1 and 2

Though I did not consciously observe any white smoke from the exhaust could these be tell tale symptoms of a 'head' related issue? Though I did mention these issues to MASS during the previous repair but they persisted.

Sorry, should have included these observations in the earlier post for your analysis. somehow got missed out.