[spadix]

Originally Posted by gaurav_chopra04

The denter said that its the gears of the lock that were damaged. It usually happens with rigid use of key while inserting and taking it out. He said one needs to be gentle while inserting and taking out the key. However, this is the first instance in any of our cars. Rest, dust and wear and tear also plays its part. Only thing we can do is be gentle with the keys.

<shakes head, begins rant>

There was some debate a few days back about Hondas' reliability and the pricing of their spares. This was around the time when jatinpatel had a series of misfortunes with his Civic. (By the way, Jatin, hope most of your issues have been solved now.) The debate was around whether Hondas and in particular the 8th Civic is reliable in the long run. The debate went to such an extent that even manim had slightly begun to doubt it, despite having had a trouble-free 4.5 years/1l+ kms.

On this topic, I agree with Jatin that if the car and its parts cost a bomb, one would expect reliability to be out of this world too. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. I would like to take the case of my old M800. Granted that it was a 1998 model, when things were much simpler and probably the general work ethic across the country was a bit higher leading to higher initial and long-term quality. But I never felt uncomfortable pushing that car in any sense, because it never surprised me. With the Civic, every rough patch on the road is a potential hair-raising moment. It's fine if the car sails through, but everything feels so delicate that there's this constant pressure while driving to be absolutely certain not to take any chance whatsoever, because of the question marks over build quality/reliability and attendant financial misery should anything untoward happen. Even with this kind of baby-sitting there are the odd rattles and sounds that have cropped up so early in the car's life. All very minor, and not at all functionally threatening (I hope!) but still, not what I would expect from a 15+ lac car from one of the world's premier auto companies. Period.

Now couple with that with the general silliness and incompetence at Honda A.S.S. They are good only at routine work, and when specific tricky problems are pointed out they are a.) absolutely clueless and b.) in denial, with a holier-than-thou attitude saying Hondas are always problem-free. I've had one mechanic at Pride Honda (Hyderabad) tell me that I was the first customer he had seen who was so particular about his car. Come on! After spending 15+ lacs, I have every right to be! More so when Maruti A.S.S. was an absolutely super experience overall, despite me having a humble M800.

Unless I am on a road like the Hyd-Blr NH7 (or certain stretches on the GQ and some other very rare bits of chosen highways) I find it hard to *really* enjoy the car completely unencumbered.

<ends rant>

Regards,
spadix

[jatinpatel]

Originally Posted by spadix

<shakes head, begins rant>

There was some debate a few days back about Hondas' reliability and the pricing of their spares. This was around the time when jatinpatel had a series of misfortunes with his Civic. (By the way, Jatin, hope most of your issues have been solved now.) The debate was around whether Hondas and in particular the 8th Civic is reliable in the long run. The debate went to such an extent that even manim had slightly begun to doubt it, despite having had a trouble-free 4.5 years/1l+ kms.

On this topic, I agree with Jatin that if the car and its parts cost a bomb, one would expect reliability to be out of this world too. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the case. I would like to take the case of my old M800. Granted that it was a 1998 model, when things were much simpler and probably the general work ethic across the country was a bit higher leading to higher initial and long-term quality. But I never felt uncomfortable pushing that car in any sense, because it never surprised me. With the Civic, every rough patch on the road is a potential hair-raising moment. It's fine if the car sails through, but everything feels so delicate that there's this constant pressure while driving to be absolutely certain not to take any chance whatsoever, because of the question marks over build quality/reliability and attendant financial misery should anything untoward happen. Even with this kind of baby-sitting there are the odd rattles and sounds that have cropped up so early in the car's life. All very minor, and not at all functionally threatening (I hope!) but still, not what I would expect from a 15+ lac car from one of the world's premier auto companies. Period.

Now couple with that with the general silliness and incompetence at Honda A.S.S. They are good only at routine work, and when specific tricky problems are pointed out they are a.) absolutely clueless and b.) in denial, with a holier-than-thou attitude saying Hondas are always problem-free. I've had one mechanic at Pride Honda (Hyderabad) tell me that I was the first customer he had seen who was so particular about his car. Come on! After spending 15+ lacs, I have every right to be! More so when Maruti A.S.S. was an absolutely super experience overall, despite me having a humble M800.

Unless I am on a road like the Hyd-Blr NH7 (or certain stretches on the GQ and some other very rare bits of chosen highways) I find it hard to *really* enjoy the car completely unencumbered.

<ends rant>

Regards,
spadix

Well i thought all problems were over for sometime but NO!!!

When i had gone to Honda to replace the serpentine belt as a preventive maintianence and also upon seeing that the belt had thinned out a bit car odo standing at 49.7k kms

While getting the belt changed in front of me the technician found out play in the Auto-tensioner and now at 50k service will getting it changed for 5k!!!


I mean i cant get it is this car made of paper or what sometimes i just think if getting an AT was not a priority i would had gone in for my long lasted and still a dream car CEDIA sports.

Another rubbish thing if find aboust civic is the un-communicative rear suspension i mean it has a brain of its own taking a curve at 90 you feel that the rear will step out just about now and thats with only me or total of two people in the car
if rear is loaded then just forget it !

taking the same turn at 90 in my 800, the 800 feels more composed and never does it feel that the rear will step out although there is body roll but the rear follows the front.

Same turn in lancer Oh man!! that car is in leagues of it own at 90 on the same curve am yawning!

Oh yeah and the insanely thuding thuding thuding front suspension fine the stifffer setup at front gives precise controlled body rolled and nice steering response but its JUST HATE HATE the way it goes through the potholes!


Honda CANT DESIGN PROPER SUSPENSION ! Period.

Only possitive i find about civic is that
-Good engine (since mine is an AT i dont suffer that much from low end torque issues as other face, but Plan to get FFE in few months)
-Space Loads of Space the only car in my 3 cars fleet which can accommodate me comfortably at the back (i am 6,3) but still dont like to sit in the rear when the ride is over bad roads.



Since i bought this car pre-used from Honda Auto terrace so had a complete detailed history of the car discounting the cost of new Michelin PLC and 40k service cost. I have spent a total of 72k on repairs and service(not including 40k service)

I am very very meticulus about my cars and cant tolerate a squeak rattle or any kind of improper behavior in driving dynamics of the car.

Now i just pray after the auto-tensioner change nothing more should come up or else might just go and bang the car somewer!


But am EXTREMELY satisfied the Honda A.s.s Linkway honda superb service and service advisor is very very friendly and good knowledge and will tell me upfront that what has to be replaced on priority and what can be stretched a bit before replacing.


Overall considering all the factors of owning a car that is
Car itself
Maintainence
Service provided my Honda A.S.S

overall outta 10 i would rate 6.7.

I know after soo much of probs too i gave lil on higher side rating cause whenever i flooe the R18A it just PUTS A BIGGGGGGGG GRIN on my face my Gf feels jealous when this happens

[flipsyde]

I have now owned a Civic for about 6 months and driven it for 5k kms. Its too early to tell but I don't think the Civic is inferior to other cars in the market for around the same price.

Which car is short of problems? Lauras were plagued with poor A S S and AC problems. Not to forget the DSG boxes conking off around 70-80k km mark. Verna with its vague steering. i20's with the AC and steering issues. Linea with GC issues, rusting, AC problems and clutch trouble. Why even the big guns like Mercs and BMWs have their fair share of problems like SBC in the E270, electronic problems in the early A6s etc

I am not saying the Civic is the best out there but certainly in par with what the industry offers. Everything apart the R18A up front can really turn any frown upside down. I have laterally moved from a Corolla to a Civic and can wholeheartedly tell you what a big difference a revv free engine can make.

In today's market I think you choose a car with what problems you are willing to put up with. No car is perfect and with the complicated gadgetry on board they make it very expensive to fix. I would surely rate the Civic a 8/10.

[mayankjha1806]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

taking the same turn at 90 in my 800, the 800 feels more composed and never does it feel that the rear will step out although there is body roll but the rear follows the front.

I am a surprised reading this, did you get the suspensions checked, although my Civic is newer but i have taken with full load (Four adults + Luggage) over 1500Kms long drive which includes fast 4 lanes highway and bad yet to tared roads and never the rear gave a feeling that its going to step out of the way.

The speeds we did were much higher that 90, you could look at my TL for more details. Never did the car scrape or felt wobbly at any speed on any terrain.

[jatinpatel]

Originally Posted by mayankjha1806

I am a surprised reading this, did you get the suspensions checked, although my Civic is newer but i have taken with full load (Four adults + Luggage) over 1500Kms long drive which includes fast 4 lanes highway and bad yet to tared roads and never the rear gave a feeling that its going to step out of the way.

The speeds we did were much higher that 90, you could look at my TL for more details. Never did the car scrape or felt wobbly at any speed on any terrain.

@mayank that might be because your is the face-lifted civic with changes to the mounting points to rear shocks it might be that Honda might have tweaked the rear suspension geometry a bit or they might have stiffened the shocks.

Mine is an 07 pre facelift
suspension is in top nick got it checked and re-torqued at Honda itself.

on straights its very composed driven it at speed excess of 170 and its composed but when it comes to changing lanes quickly at 130+ then you feel little twitchy which my lancer doesn at all in spite being running on stock suspension for last 1L kms.

[mukeshgoel]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

@mayank that might be because your is the face-lifted civic with changes to the mounting points to rear shocks it might be that Honda might have tweaked the rear suspension geometry a bit or they might have stiffened the shocks.

Mine is an 07 pre facelift
suspension is in top nick got it checked and re-torqued at Honda itself.

on straights its very composed driven it at speed excess of 170 and its composed but when it comes to changing lanes quickly at 130+ then you feel little twitchy which my lancer doesn at all in spite being running on stock suspension for last 1L kms.

Well, I have a 2006 Civic with 67k on odo but I have never faced such problem.

[jatinpatel]

Originally Posted by mukeshgoel

Well, I have a 2006 Civic with 67k on odo but I have never faced such problem.

what spec tires your car is on ? Mine is on stock specs and tires are Michelin PLC.

by twitchy i mean you have to think thrice before you change the lane and also be 200% alert of any sudden behaviour changes,

drove 3 other civics, 06,07,08 all suffer the same problem.

[mukeshgoel]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

what spec tires your car is on ? Mine is on stock specs and tires are Michelin PLC.

by twitchy i mean you have to think thrice before you change the lane and also be 200% alert of any sudden behaviour changes,

drove 3 other civics, 06,07,08 all suffer the same problem.

I am running on 205/65/15 Yokohama AVS dB v550.

But I drive at 130+ rarely.

[swarooppatil]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

what spec tires your car is on ? Mine is on stock specs and tires are Michelin PLC.

by twitchy i mean you have to think thrice before you change the lane and also be 200% alert of any sudden behaviour changes,

drove 3 other civics, 06,07,08 all suffer the same problem.

Mine is a '08, and I have not noticed such a behavior on my car so far. Not with the initial OEM Goodyears even. Currently I have 205/65 R15 Michelin PLCs which are still better.

[SmartCat]

Originally Posted by jatinpatel

Another rubbish thing if find aboust civic is the un-communicative rear suspension i mean it has a brain of its own taking a curve at 90 you feel that the rear will step out just about now and thats with only me or total of two people in the car
if rear is loaded then just forget it !

What Jatin is saying is true. Civic is tail happy - the rear end loses grip before the front does. Although, I consider this trait to add to the fun factor, rather than feel nervous. Because of the tail happy rear, Civic will rarely understeer in corners - the front end simply digs in.

[gaurav_chopra04]

When we compare cars handling we need to keep a few things in mind.

First, Civic has the largest wheel base amongst 800, lancer, cedia or any other car we talk about here.

Second, civic has the softest rear suspension amongst these vehicles.

We will find it hard to believe but the 800, which came with leaf springs at rear till the year 2000, had the hardest suspension ever. The ride was back breaking, especially at the rear. This along with direct steering of 800 and a very small wheel base made it a very good handler. However, the chassis isnt closely balanced to that of civic, lancer or cedia. So if you do things beyond a limit, it will be hard to control the car, whereas you can easily balance stuff back in the bigger ones. If fact, the independent rears in each of them works to get you back the control when you push the rides hard.

The lancer also has a smaller wheel base than the civic and the rear isnt as soft as that of civic, therefore, it will definitely handle better than the civic. Moreover, the lancer is a better handler than cedia in its stock form. Cedia in India has been fitted with bigger springs up front, without changing the suspension geometry, to increase the GC of the car. Although the springs are hard, it does lead to a compromised handling. Infact, a bug to cut and shorten the height of front springs, bites me now and then but the GC is also an important issue to consider in India.

Last but not the least, the civic with its largest wheel base and softest rear is meant to have body roll. Further, the right tire size for civic is 215 whereas most of us run on either 195 or 205s. To make the car a better handler, the least one can do is switch to 215s or even 225s. This coupled with firm rear setup will leave no grouse in the mind of any owner for handling.

Believe me, the chassis of civic is excellent and its only the front and back coordination thats missing. The firm front doesnt match with the lousy rear. Fix it and you are all set to experience the ride of your life.

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by smartcat

What Jatin is saying is true. Civic is tail happy - the rear end loses grip before the front does. Although, I consider this trait to add to the fun factor, rather than feel nervous. Because of the tail happy rear, Civic will rarely understeer in corners - the front end simply digs in.

I will say this is oversteering. A nasty trait for all but the expert. Most fwd cars have a tendency to dig in on the front wheels. The best way to correct/minimise it (in fact the proper way to drive) is to accelerate out of corners.

Civic has two features - as has been pointed out a very long wheel base, and also Honda refused to compromise on the handling by increasing the height and/or put in stiffer springs. After some time slowing down when entering a speed bump or pothole becomes second nature.

[normally_crazy]

Also the A-Pillar is a blind fest - aiding the slowing down during corners alongwith the suspension.

[unknown]

Changed gear oil to castrol oil, 3 liter for RS.700 oil taken, is it any good as compared to honda oil ?
Repaired the axle but sound is still there while turning on roundabouts, previously sounds comes on every turn now it's coming very rarely but sound is there, axle guy said axle is okay now, it costed me 2k to repair, I wonder if I have been fooled hmm...

[dot]

Originally Posted by smartcat

Civic is tail happy - the rear end loses grip before the front does. Although, I consider this trait to add to the fun factor, rather than feel nervous. Because of the tail happy rear, Civic will rarely understeer in corners - the front end simply digs in.

I agree. During sharp cornering, I can feel that the car's rear is almost sliding or drifting. It is massive fun though, like a go-kart!