Know about LPG Conversion....

mail4ajo · 7th March 2007, 18:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

There are no regular maintanence that i know of. Just drive & dont worry.

I have heard of people talking about draining "some oil" from the main LPG convertor unit. How often does this need to be done? Any idea?

Jaggu · 7th March 2007, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

Jaggu, I disagree.
K&N filters have proven to work efficiently even with 1.8" thickness of dust on it.It filters upto 2 micron size dust particles whereas the regular ones do 7 microns.
I've been using the Ractive filter(dry type) in my car for over 25,000 kms now. It even got wet during the monsoon floods and still works fine.Though,It needs proper cleaning now with the K&N cleaning kit.

i never said it will not work, i said optimum performance, my only suggestion dont go by all thats claimed by a manufacturer, there are different set of assumption/situations while making the claim, its upto each one of us to make use of the product to the best

again i have used k&n filters for long enough to see what all it will do

finetuning · 8th March 2007, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

I have heard of people talking about draining "some oil" from the main LPG convertor unit. How often does this need to be done? Any idea?

LPG gas has basically no smell.....to make it peculier smelling certain chemical is added from refinary so that we can detect its presence......now with normal auto lpg we need not worry about this strong smelling oil.....but those who uses domestic cooking gas for refilling(its not legal) has this oil problem.....

Make a habit to start car in petrol mode,run for few minutes then switch to lpg mode......it takes long self to start car in lpg in the morning.....you ca do this way.....while parking your car you can switch to petrol mode so that next morning you can start easily in petrol....

Enjoy......

gigy · 20th March 2007, 18:26

some more lpg tips:
Keep your ignition components right up to scratch.

Items such as Distributor caps, HT Leads, Rotor arms, Coils etc. can appear to be perfectly serviceable but cause problems when running on LPG. This is because LPG / Air mixture is much harder to ignite than Petrol / Air mixtrure. The voltages generated in items such as HT leads are consequently up to twice as high ( one would expect to see spark voltages of 10-15Kv's on petrol, whereas on LPG they can reach 25 -30Kv's). Higher spark voltages are much more likely to break down the insulation of any component, causing 'tracking', misfiring etc. which often results in backfiring. Thus, faults that are NOT evident when running on Petrol can show up on LPG with quite serious effect.

If you have new components fitted (or fit them yourself) only use the manufacturer's original equipment. Spurious items may well be very good but there really is no substitute for the real thing. Using other parts can prove to be a false economy. Although all spark ignition engines can suffer misfiring caused by old or substandard ignition parts, in 6, 8, 10 and 12 cylinder ignition systems the spacing between the 'poles' on the distributor cap can be quite small. It is easier for a spark to 'jump' to the wrong pole as a result, (and through that, spark the wrong plug). It is crucial that this and other components do not cause this problem when running on LPG.

To give a fuller picture of the phenomenon, here is a brief explanation I gave on an LPG forum recently -

'Gas/air mix is much harder to ignite than a petrol air mix.

As a result, the voltages reached within the HT components (just before the spark occurs) can become far higher when running on gas as opposed on petrol, typically 12-15 Kv's on petrol and up to 30 - 35 Kv's on gas.

This means that the insulation of HT components is at least twice as likely to break down when running on gas, often resulting in tracking, leakage, misfiring etc.

This is the point where we often hear the statement 'It doesn't misfire/backfire/judder/stall on petrol'.

In the light of the above, it wouldn't.

To help reduce the potential for problems when running on gas, set plug gaps to .030" (.75mm).'

To show this effect in action you need to see what a reduction in plug gaps does on a 'scope.

Too wide = High voltage.

Reduce gap = Reduced voltage.

No one says that reducing the plug gap will dramatically remedy backfiring, but it will certainly reduce the risk.

Another factor often missed is that once HT leads etc. have been exposed to higher than normal voltages for some time they will have had their insulation damaged to the extent that a later reduction in plug gaps cannot stop the leakage. Misfiring and the ensuing backfire will still occur. 'Tracking' or 'Shorting' is, after all, mini lightning. You'd expect something to be damaged by this if only by the inherent erosion. Such damage makes just the place where damp likes to dwell, making things even worse.

If that is the case, only replacement of the damaged components will cure the problem (if the backfiring is really due to ignition faults in the first instance).

If you want to get the greatest amount of LPG you can get in your tank, arrange things to your best advantage;

Use a filling Station that has a full or near full tank.
Use a filling pump that delivers higher end pressure (it can take some time to find that out by comparing it to others).
Always stand your car on level ground.
Fill up during cooler conditions (say late at night in summer

Refusal to run on gas in hot weather

In the Summer months it is possible for the liquid gas held in the system (especially that held the front to back fuel pipe) to be heated and vaporise, causing a high pressure vapour lock. When a car is left hot and the engine is restarted after some time it may refuse to run on gas and stall upon changeover. This happens because the vaporiser is being denied a supply of liquid gas (which it relies upon) and when the engine stalls the tank solenoids are closed again, preventing the vapour from being bled out of the line.

The cure is to bleed the gas line by starting and changing over to gas as many times as it takes before the vaporiser's liquid supply is restored and the engine will run on gas.

The phenomenon is found in some cars more than others, definately more prevalent when the car is left parked on black (or dark) Tarmac surfaces and often manifested if the car is parked at the beginning of the hottest part of the day and restarted before the air begins to cool in the evening or during rain.

ranjithbalan · 6th April 2007, 19:38

If anybody have used KN stock replacement filter with the LPG, Iam sure so many would have, please let us know about the effect of KN while using LPG like FE, performance, Smoothness etc.

i need a small suggestion on replacing my exhaust since my car Opel Corsa sedan, having a low clearence hit so many times under the bodt due to more no. of humps being crossed dangerously. Everytime some leakage happens and i have to gas weld it - almost around 7 - 8 times it happened now. Should i need to replace it ..What is the opinion about a free flow exhaust... quoting the price would be appreciated very much.

esteem_lover · 6th April 2007, 22:30

Next time you hit a hump, don't gas weld it, it will become a free flow. LOL

Yes, i am also waiting for someone who has experience with K&N in his LPG car.

mail4ajo · 7th April 2007, 12:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Yes, i am also waiting for someone who has experience with K&N in his LPG car.

John, Wait for a month. I should have it done, Getting from the US and will fit it next month when I return.

gigy · 7th April 2007, 17:36

i am using ractive extreme on my lpg baleno, performance definitely is better than before when using stock filter, but there is one problem. the rpm at which car switches over to lpg has gone up. it goes to 3000rpm and a pulse on accelerator and immediately have to raise rpm back to 3000 to prevent something like detonation or a blast. it has happened many times when i tried to switch in lower rpm. once switched over its like a 1.6 carb engine

swathyd · 7th April 2007, 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigy

i am using ractive extreme on my lpg baleno, performance definitely is better than before when using stock filter, but there is one problem. the rpm at which car switches over to lpg has gone up. it goes to 3000rpm and a pulse on accelerator and immediately have to raise rpm back to 3000 to prevent something like detonation or a blast. it has happened many times when i tried to switch in lower rpm. once switched over its like a 1.6 carb engine

You should see an expert and discuss about this phenomenon to him.Also tell how it was before installing ractive, also interact with other guys. Dont use until you get it rectified.

ranjithbalan · 10th April 2007, 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by esteem_lover

Next time you hit a hump, don't gas weld it, it will become a free flow. LOL

Yes, i am also waiting for someone who has experience with K&N in his LPG car.

Is there any problem with gas weld? Guess it is because of the ride height being very low with the stock tires 175/75/R13. Which would be the correct upsize for corsa if i need to raise the ride height so that my underbody is safe

esteem_lover · 10th April 2007, 18:05

Dude, you are already having pretty fat rubber on your car. I am running on 175/70/13. Get your suspension checked.

HAFI · 11th April 2007, 23:32

HELP!!!!(HAD POSTED A THREAD ON IT)
hey,

i had recently installed an LPG kit for my FIAT Palio 1.6.It was realy a difficult job to get the right mixture(a part of the LPG kit which controls the gas flow into the air intake pipe)kit since the engine being so powerfull.

After the install there seems to be a problem with the rpm of the engine...when the RPM goes high(say above 3000) it comes down slowly...and if we are at higher speeds,the rpm doesnt go down as it usualy does...it goes down very slowly.But it behaves normaly when converted to petrol...i now have to keep on pressing the clutch until the RPM goes down...the engine continously keeps on roaring as rpm stays high for a long time...

I went and had a talk with the people who fitted in the LPG kit.The guy told me that the sensor(one which controls the air intake and rpm ) is damaged and have to be replaced.But when i went to the FIAT authorized service staion,the people over there told that there is no problem with the sensor(they did not even check it) and if it shows problem with LPG ,it will definilty show problem with petrol..

But the guy who fitted the LPG argues that it wound show any problem with petrol because when we give the acclereation the injector injects fuel and when not given it wount inject fuel and hence the RPM goes down eventually and in petrol we cannot notice this change even if the sensor is damaged(I also feel that he is right).

I happen to see one more trouble now...the the RPM doesnt go up when the A/C is on(both in petrol and LPG)..Normally the RPM should go up so that it can balance the load of the A/C..It doesnt do so..and the engine knocks when the A/C is on.....and now there is a starting trouble too(both in petrol and LPG)...i have to press the accelerator initialy while starting the engine as the initial RPM while starting the engine is too low and the engine goes off if accelerator not given..

Some say that LPG kit cannot be fitted to 1.6..and no one suggests LPG for a 1.6...

All the techies out here please help me as iam in a confusion what had gone wrong with my car...should i remove the LPG kit or is it the sensor which causes the problem.. i still feel that the sensor must have damaged during the LPG fitment as the air intake pipe had to be removed and the mixture had to be fitted and refitted again(had to change the mixture many times as it dint make up with the 100bhp engine and atlast had fitted the mixture for a lancer petrol engine) as there is no specific mixture for a 1.6...

Guys please do help me on this....And is it true that an LPG kit cannot be fitted into a 1.6(disaster for me if it is a yes)...has anyone over here fitted in an LPG for their 1.6..if yes please do share in your views in here as it would be a great help for me..

HAFI

headers · 9th July 2007, 20:38

Hafi..your LPG installer is taking you for a ride..

An LPG kit can be fitted to any engine..with the appropriate volume of gas [read that as bigger dia pipes] made to enter the intake..

I had disaster when i converted my Gypsy king to LPG..It has a free flow exhaust as well as K&N filter..Had to explain to the guys that I AM NOT LOOKIN at mileage..That is the language they understand..Once you tell them what to do..I've managed to get mine OK..Now no Difference between LPG ad PETROl..Does 80 in second gear on both..at 5500 RPM..

infact at high speeds LPG is smoother..

headers · 9th July 2007, 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitrous

Ajo,I recommend both U and John get K&N stock replacement filters.
300% air flow will give u optimal combustion which means better FE and power.
Also, U dont need to change it ever. U just need to clean it and re-oil it once in 20 to 30,000 kms.
Btw, The LPG inlet is recommended to be kept in the open becos in the case of a collision, the gases in the tank expand and come out through the inlet.

E_L , Mail4ajo..i've got K&N and free flow in my Gypsy King..everything OK..finally..done around 4K kms..

and toppled the vehicle once with nitrous in it

LPG is better as the vehicle started at first try after recovery..realised that it does not depend on a bowl of liquid hence no Flooding

headers · 9th July 2007, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by mail4ajo

Seems like there is good support and logic in using free flow filters. The issue, I cannot convert to conical due to space contraint. Does any other brands apart from K&N have replacement type free flow filters? Nitrous, does Ractive have this?

Finetuning, most LPG tuners are unaware (atleast in chennai) of freeflow filters. What do I ask them to do while tuning since I am not sure whether they understand the working principle of free flows?

They understand only MILEAGE!!

20th March 2007, 18:26	#64
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	some more lpg tips: Keep your ignition components right up to scratch. Items such as Distributor caps, HT Leads, Rotor arms, Coils etc. can appear to be perfectly serviceable but cause problems when running on LPG. This is because LPG / Air mixture is much harder to ignite than Petrol / Air mixtrure. The voltages generated in items such as HT leads are consequently up to twice as high ( one would expect to see spark voltages of 10-15Kv's on petrol, whereas on LPG they can reach 25 -30Kv's). Higher spark voltages are much more likely to break down the insulation of any component, causing 'tracking', misfiring etc. which often results in backfiring. Thus, faults that are NOT evident when running on Petrol can show up on LPG with quite serious effect. If you have new components fitted (or fit them yourself) only use the manufacturer's original equipment. Spurious items may well be very good but there really is no substitute for the real thing. Using other parts can prove to be a false economy. Although all spark ignition engines can suffer misfiring caused by old or substandard ignition parts, in 6, 8, 10 and 12 cylinder ignition systems the spacing between the 'poles' on the distributor cap can be quite small. It is easier for a spark to 'jump' to the wrong pole as a result, (and through that, spark the wrong plug). It is crucial that this and other components do not cause this problem when running on LPG. To give a fuller picture of the phenomenon, here is a brief explanation I gave on an LPG forum recently - 'Gas/air mix is much harder to ignite than a petrol air mix. As a result, the voltages reached within the HT components (just before the spark occurs) can become far higher when running on gas as opposed on petrol, typically 12-15 Kv's on petrol and up to 30 - 35 Kv's on gas. This means that the insulation of HT components is at least twice as likely to break down when running on gas, often resulting in tracking, leakage, misfiring etc. This is the point where we often hear the statement 'It doesn't misfire/backfire/judder/stall on petrol'. In the light of the above, it wouldn't. To help reduce the potential for problems when running on gas, set plug gaps to .030" (.75mm).' To show this effect in action you need to see what a reduction in plug gaps does on a 'scope. Too wide = High voltage. Reduce gap = Reduced voltage. No one says that reducing the plug gap will dramatically remedy backfiring, but it will certainly reduce the risk. Another factor often missed is that once HT leads etc. have been exposed to higher than normal voltages for some time they will have had their insulation damaged to the extent that a later reduction in plug gaps cannot stop the leakage. Misfiring and the ensuing backfire will still occur. 'Tracking' or 'Shorting' is, after all, mini lightning. You'd expect something to be damaged by this if only by the inherent erosion. Such damage makes just the place where damp likes to dwell, making things even worse. If that is the case, only replacement of the damaged components will cure the problem (if the backfiring is really due to ignition faults in the first instance). If you want to get the greatest amount of LPG you can get in your tank, arrange things to your best advantage; Use a filling Station that has a full or near full tank. Use a filling pump that delivers higher end pressure (it can take some time to find that out by comparing it to others). Always stand your car on level ground. Fill up during cooler conditions (say late at night in summer Refusal to run on gas in hot weather In the Summer months it is possible for the liquid gas held in the system (especially that held the front to back fuel pipe) to be heated and vaporise, causing a high pressure vapour lock. When a car is left hot and the engine is restarted after some time it may refuse to run on gas and stall upon changeover. This happens because the vaporiser is being denied a supply of liquid gas (which it relies upon) and when the engine stalls the tank solenoids are closed again, preventing the vapour from being bled out of the line. The cure is to bleed the gas line by starting and changing over to gas as many times as it takes before the vaporiser's liquid supply is restored and the engine will run on gas. The phenomenon is found in some cars more than others, definately more prevalent when the car is left parked on black (or dark) Tarmac surfaces and often manifested if the car is parked at the beginning of the hottest part of the day and restarted before the air begins to cool in the evening or during rain.
	() Thanks

6th April 2007, 19:38	#65
ranjithbalan Newbie Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 22 Thanked: 0 Times	If anybody have used KN stock replacement filter with the LPG, Iam sure so many would have, please let us know about the effect of KN while using LPG like FE, performance, Smoothness etc. i need a small suggestion on replacing my exhaust since my car Opel Corsa sedan, having a low clearence hit so many times under the bodt due to more no. of humps being crossed dangerously. Everytime some leakage happens and i have to gas weld it - almost around 7 - 8 times it happened now. Should i need to replace it ..What is the opinion about a free flow exhaust... quoting the price would be appreciated very much.
	() Thanks

6th April 2007, 22:30	#66
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 507 Times View My Garage	Next time you hit a hump, don't gas weld it, it will become a free flow. LOL Yes, i am also waiting for someone who has experience with K&N in his LPG car.
	() Thanks

7th April 2007, 17:36	#68
gigy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: mumbai Posts: 1,321 Thanked: 47 Times	i am using ractive extreme on my lpg baleno, performance definitely is better than before when using stock filter, but there is one problem. the rpm at which car switches over to lpg has gone up. it goes to 3000rpm and a pulse on accelerator and immediately have to raise rpm back to 3000 to prevent something like detonation or a blast. it has happened many times when i tried to switch in lower rpm. once switched over its like a 1.6 carb engine
	() Thanks

10th April 2007, 18:05	#71
esteem_lover Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Madras/Py Posts: 7,556 Thanked: 507 Times View My Garage	Dude, you are already having pretty fat rubber on your car. I am running on 175/70/13. Get your suspension checked.
	() Thanks

11th April 2007, 23:32	#72
HAFI BANNED Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: cochin Posts: 296 Thanked: 0 Times	Problem With The Engine Rpm In Palio 1.6 After Lpg Conversion HELP!!!!(HAD POSTED A THREAD ON IT) hey, i had recently installed an LPG kit for my FIAT Palio 1.6.It was realy a difficult job to get the right mixture(a part of the LPG kit which controls the gas flow into the air intake pipe)kit since the engine being so powerfull. After the install there seems to be a problem with the rpm of the engine...when the RPM goes high(say above 3000) it comes down slowly...and if we are at higher speeds,the rpm doesnt go down as it usualy does...it goes down very slowly.But it behaves normaly when converted to petrol...i now have to keep on pressing the clutch until the RPM goes down...the engine continously keeps on roaring as rpm stays high for a long time... I went and had a talk with the people who fitted in the LPG kit.The guy told me that the sensor(one which controls the air intake and rpm ) is damaged and have to be replaced.But when i went to the FIAT authorized service staion,the people over there told that there is no problem with the sensor(they did not even check it) and if it shows problem with LPG ,it will definilty show problem with petrol.. But the guy who fitted the LPG argues that it wound show any problem with petrol because when we give the acclereation the injector injects fuel and when not given it wount inject fuel and hence the RPM goes down eventually and in petrol we cannot notice this change even if the sensor is damaged(I also feel that he is right). I happen to see one more trouble now...the the RPM doesnt go up when the A/C is on(both in petrol and LPG)..Normally the RPM should go up so that it can balance the load of the A/C..It doesnt do so..and the engine knocks when the A/C is on.....and now there is a starting trouble too(both in petrol and LPG)...i have to press the accelerator initialy while starting the engine as the initial RPM while starting the engine is too low and the engine goes off if accelerator not given.. Some say that LPG kit cannot be fitted to 1.6..and no one suggests LPG for a 1.6... All the techies out here please help me as iam in a confusion what had gone wrong with my car...should i remove the LPG kit or is it the sensor which causes the problem.. i still feel that the sensor must have damaged during the LPG fitment as the air intake pipe had to be removed and the mixture had to be fitted and refitted again(had to change the mixture many times as it dint make up with the 100bhp engine and atlast had fitted the mixture for a lancer petrol engine) as there is no specific mixture for a 1.6... Guys please do help me on this....And is it true that an LPG kit cannot be fitted into a 1.6(disaster for me if it is a yes)...has anyone over here fitted in an LPG for their 1.6..if yes please do share in your views in here as it would be a great help for me.. HAFI
	() Thanks

9th July 2007, 20:38	#73
headers Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Greater Chennai Posts: 4,667 Thanked: 559 Times	Hafi..your LPG installer is taking you for a ride.. An LPG kit can be fitted to any engine..with the appropriate volume of gas [read that as bigger dia pipes] made to enter the intake.. I had disaster when i converted my Gypsy king to LPG..It has a free flow exhaust as well as K&N filter..Had to explain to the guys that I AM NOT LOOKIN at mileage..That is the language they understand..Once you tell them what to do..I've managed to get mine OK..Now no Difference between LPG ad PETROl..Does 80 in second gear on both..at 5500 RPM.. infact at high speeds LPG is smoother..
	() Thanks