[NoRules]

Originally Posted by Poitive

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Attachment 889612
HPS Fluid
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HPS Fluid
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HPS Fluid!!!!!!!!!!
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More seriously, you should read NoRules' experience on a holiday. Some extracts below.

@NoRules: Expect you would not mind me taking the liberty of quoting your post here.

You are most welcome to quote me, Poitive. Familiar pic that oil splatter in the bay. But when I faced this issue it was because I managed to hit a rod which did the damage. I am surprised it happened to your car without any accident.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Klever

@Poitive, Firstly, congrats on what easily is one of the best ownership reports on the forum.

Being a prospective Magnum buyer, gained invaluation knowledge about the car in your thread.

And, thanks to you, Keyur for the PM's. You guys rock.

I recently decided to take the plunge and booked Magnum LT variant. I wanted a 2012 manufactured car and the dealer promised one. I insisted that should he give it in writing that the car will be a 2011 manufactured one. He obliged and gave it in writing. Please refer to the attachment.

However, to my dismay, I found that the 10th digit is B(instead of C). I posted my query in the Find your car's date of manufacture (VIN) thread.

Wildon was quick to respond and he pointed out that for 2012 cars, it's the 9th and not the 10th character that represents the manufactured year of the car. He also pointed me to ghostrider who, from the looks of it has done a lot of research on this.

If ghostrider is right, my car is Feb 2012 manufactured. Now, we are only half way done with Feb. Is it possible for GM to manufacture a car in the first week of Feb and get it shipped in the next 10 days?

All this is rather confusing me. Will appreciate inputs from those who know these VIN numbers well.

Thanks for the generous words, Klever.
You had that memorable post in the Choosing thread (memorable due to that "what and not if" statement) , after an interaction on another thread, which made me realize that more and more people need to TD this car.

Hope you get more clarity on the VIN. Do update us on the developments/conclusions - it could help other potential buyers. AFAIK, Some Optra owners (including me) have already shared views on PM.

If anyone has any idea about VIN details of GM, please share.

Originally Posted by NoRules

You are most welcome to quote me, Poitive. Familiar pic that oil splatter in the bay. But when I faced this issue it was because I managed to hit a rod which did the damage. I am surprised it happened to your car without any accident.

@NR - Gracious as always!

I too am not sure why it happened. The surface where it was parked was uneven, but didn't seem to have high enough protrusions to damage the car. With the ease with which the service manager and engineer almost concluded that it was an HPS leak (minimal details were given by then), almost confirmed that it was a known issue. The following quote may be the answer. I probably did do what the mechanic asked.

Originally Posted by Poitive

Note: The mechanic had also enquired if I had given it "raise" (increased the RPM) with the steering fully on one side; suggesting that the issue could get triggered with such an act. I think I read about Vento's too having some guideline around this. Probably an issue with other cars too. Would be prudent to avoid doing so, till one gets stronger clamps.

[Poitive]

EXPERIENCING THE VVS MAGNUM
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Adapting to the Magnum & the car feeling InSync
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Some rant!

Before that break, I had in mind to review this car, bit by bit. Had thought I might do it over a few weeks/months in quite an orderly fashion. Am trying to resume that process, but really don't think it would end up being anywhere as orderly as I had initially thought.

Some points in the following posts, may not be well understood well over short drives (TDs). They are also to help potential buyers in the segment to get a better idea about this car. What I say here, is just my personal opinion based over the 14k odd that I have driven this car. Others opinions and perceptions, of course, may vary. If you strongly disagree and have not driven the BS4 Optra Magnum much, would suggest you try out a well maintained one, over an extended drive, before forming a firm opinion about things.

@Mods, am breaking up what I have to say into smaller posts, for better organization and easier quoting. Please merge, if deemed inappropriate. Thanks.

-----------

Adaption/Learning Curve – A note for potential buyers and new owners.

This one is a bit different form the typical car in it’s price bracket and even it’s (older?) segment. It needs a bit more to get adapted to this car, especially for people who are not used to diesel cars’ power delivery (torque curves). This one is quite different even as compared to most of the newer diesels around. The gear ratios are higher (a lot of people stall the car, due to this and get put off); the suspension is soft (more on this in the following posts); the car is lower than most; the torque is humongous; it needs to be driven at slightly higher RPM’s than petrols or the new breed of diesel engines (Vento, Fluidic etc) to get suitable performance from it.

For the typical Petrol car owner, a Verna would immediately feel familiar. The Vento too. Also the New Fiesta. They all pick up well from a low RPM with minimal lag. Keep the Optra one over 1.5k RPM and everything feels right (now some might argue that it would hamper the FE - I have had good figures by usually keeping it over 1500-1800 RPM). This difference may leave a very different impression on some, after a first TD.

One also needs to adapt to it's slightly different handling. It doesn't have the feel of a typically good handler. But still is good with some adaption. That may take a while to reveal, beyond the obviously huge torque, space and ergonomics.

Taking this further-

In-Sync, Agility etc.

You may relate to your car driving better and almost everything about the car being in sync at a certain speed band. From what I understand, cars are designed to perform at their best in a certain speed range. This, of course would vary from car to car. Let us call it the In-Sync Band (now don't expect music ). The difference in characteristics, between being in that In-Sync Band and out of it, too will vary from car to car. The difference is pretty significant in the Optra Magnum.

This one starts to come In-Sync around 80kmph upwards. Everything about it starts to feel right. Even the agility, which I was complaining about in one of the previous posts, feels good. It changes direction quickly and with a LOT of composure. The slight nervousness one feels in many lighter cars at higher speeds is also not there; especially better when changing direction. This is how the steering of this car seems to be designed. It seems to be a good trade-off - compromise on the lower speeds and get good agility with composure at higher speeds. Ideally, of course, we'd want it to be good arll round, but that leads to a much poorer ride. Would have been happier though, if that InSync feeling came from 60kmph or so, than from 80.
This car is good upto about 80kmph – like many cars in the segment. Absolutely brilliant after 80kmph.

While the Optra Magnum and Fluidic Verna may not feel too far apart in their handling in average city driving conditions (Optra owners - don't kill me), they are extremely different at higher speeds and more trying conditions (Fluidic owners - don't kill me!). In an average city drive, one may not be able to appreciate the poise of the Optra Magnum.

[Poitive]

EXPERIENCING THE VVS MAGNUM
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Soft Suspension -> Body Roll -> Poor handler
Nah!
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A lot of what I see on the forum, makes it seem that at the first feel of a soft suspension, a car is proclaimed as a poor handler. In my view, it is way to over-simplistic a way of things. There has also been talk of how this one can’t be thrown into curves/corners. I do disagree with that view. I presume this is based on projection. Based on projecting, how the car may feel at higher speeds, based on how it behaves at lower (upto 60-80kmph) speeds. People also may have tried out older models (pre-chassis reinforcement).

Let us take this handling-the-curves talk further-

• For curves with a short radius (tight curves) - Not anything special at all. Would give it a moderate rating. If you are not used to the bodyroll of this car, you may even take it too slowly, and not realize what this one is capable of.
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• For curves with a medium radius (say, a typical roundabout in Chanakyapuri, Delhi) – It is good. Compares to the New Ford Fiesta. Have often passed the roundabout I tried the Fiesta for curves on the TD (with due tyre pressure checks), it can take the roundabout at similar speeds, without tyres loosing traction (and I am running higher than recommended anyway on the VVS).
  
  I have often taken those roundabouts in 4th gear, despite the higher gear ratios of this car.
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• For wider curves (the kinds we may often find on roads and one may think of doing them at, say 70-120kmph) – The Optra Magnum is brilliant. It really is. Mentioning speeds and curves here may be a tad inappropriate. One has got to experience it.
  
  At times, haven't even dropped to 4th and taken roundabouts in Lutyen's Delhi in 5th! Talk about high gear ratios, low RPM power and ability on curves.

All that said, one has to bear in mind that the car does tilt quite a lot. The body roll is there. No questions about it.

Why do opinions about the Optra handling vary so much?

• How the car's agility varies with speed has already been discussed in the previous post.
  .
• Intuitively, one is used to slowing down, when one notices the roll/tilt in the car. It instinctively makes us feel a bit nervous and unsure. This car has a very low Centre of Gravity. With such a low Centre of Gravity, one can really push it on corners, despite some bodyroll/tilt. One needs to get the hang of it. This takes a while.
  .
  That also explains why people who own Optras (especially the ones with a reinforced chassis) are found saying that this car can take curves, whereas ones who don’t own it differ in their views. It was only in my third TD, that I even started to appreciate the handling of the Optra.
  .
  Don’t have a good enough way to compare CG’s of cars. Had complied an Excel sheet with some data, while on that break from the forum, to check if my opinion is objective enough. Will make it presentable and post it on the thread soon. It has amongst the lowest heights around. Even lower than the Honda Civic.
  .
• Another aspect is highly appreciated by me is the suspension characteristics of this car. Now imagine taking a curve at a high speed. One major concern one has is about the undulations in the road –gentle or abrupt. Most cars get unsettled easily with undulations at higher speeds. The Optra with it’s finely tuned suspension handles such situations very well. Each tyre is interacting with the road, by putting minimal effect on the others (independent suspension). A bump felt by, say the left rear tyre, will have minimal effect on the left right tyre – unlike cars without independent suspensions. That gives this car the composure one feels, as the contact of the tyres (and hence the whole car) is maintained a LOT better over undulations.
  .
  (Note: if you were to try this, do so responsibly. An overestimation of the car’s capabilities can be disastrous).
  This aspect would usually not be realized well enough over casual test drives.
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• The car also gives a floaty feel (or one can call that a very good ride); even at high speeds. Intuitively that makes one feel a bit uneasy. But on driving it enough, one realizes that, despite that feel, the tyres remain in good contact and well controlled in most situations. One needs to look beyond that one feels intuitively. The intuition too is built based on what we have been used to driving.

Come to think of it – we get a very plush ride in the Optra, which almost everyone would agree with. With some time with the car, one appreciates it’s handling characteristics too. So, what one loses out on is brilliance in handling at lower speeds (which demand good-handling relatively lesser) and one gets about everything else one expects of a good handler, without trading off that ride. After living with the car, my respect for it has increased a lot, based on how the suspension characteristics have revealed themselves. I respect to Lotus and other Indian guys who tuned this suspension.

It is also worth mentioning that while one is enjoying all this, the passengers in the car do feel uneasy, with the body roll and swerving from side to side. It is best enjoyed alone!

That also doesn't make it the first choice for anyone with extensive travel in the Himalayas. Should be OK for the coastal ghats, but don't take my word on that.

The above are only my personal opinions, based on experience. Others' experiences and interpretations of their experiences may of course vary.

[ajay_satpute]

Poitive dude

This is pretty good stuff to read. I am glued to this. Keep shooting, please. It almost feels like reading Chevy Optra - Encyclopedia, only difference is this encyclopedia is gripping.

I am not sure if you've uploaded any interior pics of your VVS. If not, could you please?

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Poitive dude

This is pretty good stuff to read. I am glued to this. Keep shooting, please. It almost feels like reading Chevy Optra - Encyclopedia, only difference is this encyclopedia is gripping.

I am not sure if you've uploaded any interior pics of your VVS. If not, could you please?

Thanks Ajay! Seeing you after quite some time. Just when I was getting a tad less motivated to write about the Optra due to flagging interest in The VVS, I get a PM telling me how much he likes the thread and takes it as bible (won't name the person, as it would against forum ethics) and now you call it an encyclopedia - now that puts ample fuel into the (motivation) tank .

Every now and then, I wonder if people even read the stuff - especially when their presence is not shown in any way. But maybe people just read and have nothing to say or acknowledge. (PS: Or maybe people are showing "maturity", seeing my signature )

Ajay, you had mentioned about the interior pictures before too, but then I went "missing" for a few months. Will add them soon; unless you are in a hurry, after the excel sheet(s).

OT : @Ajay - much preferred your older 'AJ' profile picture, mate. That one really was artistic.

[sriramv.iyer]

Poitive,
I have been one of the silent observers of this wonderful thread (I've even subscribed to it, and the only thread I have subscribed to!)

I truly appreciate the knowledge on Optra that you've been sharing with the Forum.

I almost bought an Optra last January - Except that, my father (for whom I was buying the car) could not sit comfortably because of his arthritis. He was comfortable only with Honda City and we bought that even though it costed a bit more than Optra (then) despite being a petrol (Honda later greatly reduced the price of the City)

My take on Optra:
1. BRILLIANT RIDE - The only car that I can remember in the south of 20L with an All Wheel Independent Suspension. The plushness of the ride cannot be compared with any other car
2. TORQUE - 320 Nm Torque can put a smile in anyone's face. Brilliant!
3. Spacious - Thought priced at C segment levels, the space is of C+

The new updated 126 BHP engine (WOW) should reduce the turbo lag by a good amount, and still keep the smile in the face.

The negatives are:
1. Alloys! It used to have incredibly beautiful alloys. The current 5 spoke is all but a compromise.
2. Interiors are too dated - GM cannot compete only on ride / power aspects since competition has taken the fight to the next level. It might have been great to start with, but now, the interiors just don't cut it

But, for the enthusiast there is nothing like an Optra to put a smile in his face on the way to office, or cheer up on the way back home even if there is a small empty stretch in between.

Keep sharing!

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

Poitive,
I have been one of the silent observers of this wonderful thread (I've even subscribed to it, and the only thread I have subscribed to!)

I truly appreciate the knowledge on Optra that you've been sharing with the Forum.

Thanks mate. It being the only thread you have subscribed to, when you have already bought a different car puts a smile on me, much like the VVS

At times, I also wonder if I behave like some attention seeking kid, when I share those moments of being unsure/lack of motivation/etc. But at other times, it comes across as a mark of the comradeship one feels with guys on this forum, which allows one to share such thoughts. Thanks for the "fuel"

I almost bought an Optra last January - Except that, my father (for whom I was buying the car) could not sit comfortably because of his arthritis. He was comfortable only with Honda City and we bought that even though it costed a bit more than Optra (then) despite being a petrol (Honda later greatly reduced the price of the City)

Though the Optra has a low CG, the price we have to pay for it is slight inconvenience with the ingress and egress, as compared to some of the newer cars like the Manza (excellent, IIRC), Fluidic (good), Fiesta (IIRC, also quite good). The City too has been well designed in this respect and is a very practical car to be with. Had I been looking for a petrol, my search may have started with it. The Vento's ingress and egress was extremely disappointing for someone with my body structure - literally had to crouch to get in and out - about enough to strike it off the

Thanks for your comments mate. Just adding a bit to it below.

My take on Optra:
1. BRILLIANT RIDE - The only car that I can remember in the south of 20L with an All Wheel Independent Suspension. The plushness of the ride cannot be compared with any other car

IIRC/AFAIK, The Honda Civic also has AWIS, though it is a petrol. The Indigo (pre-Manza) too had AWIS. It is just implemented extremely well in the Optra Magnum; though as I said, it takes a while to appreciate it.

3. Spacious - Thought priced at C segment levels, the space is of C+

Probably even better than some C+ ones. Never really felt too comfortable in a Civic. Not the Cruze either. The Corolla/Altis did feel spacious and comfortable though. An old post of a member who had both the Laura and Optra, had found the Optra way better (he used some pretty strong words against the Laura).

The new updated 126 BHP engine (WOW) should reduce the turbo lag by a good amount, and still keep the smile in the face.

Since I was already used to diesels, I have had NO issues with turbolag at all. Rather, on driving the post BS4 one, even wondered what all the fuss was about. Just use it a few hundred RPM higher and - ("3 Idiots" style) - All eej well !!

1. Alloys! It used to have incredibly beautiful alloys. The current 5 spoke is all but a compromise.

I presume it is a cost saving measure. They did look more sporty, but IMO these ones do go well with the docile character of it's visual styling.

2. Interiors are too dated - GM cannot compete only on ride / power aspects since competition has taken the fight to the next level. It might have been great to start with, but now, the interiors just don't cut it

Surely dated, though overall high quality (will talk more on this once I have the pictures ready). It lacks things like the MID etc etc too. Just doesn't cut it for many people. I strongly suspect GM is not sprucing it up, as that might hurt the Cruze.

But, for the enthusiast there is nothing like an Optra to put a smile in his face on the way to office, or cheer up on the way back home even if there is a small empty stretch in between.

You hit the nail on the head. It needs only a small empty stretch! It just zips after about 30kmph odd.

[ajay_satpute]

Originally Posted by Poitive

Every now and then, I wonder if people even read the stuff - especially when their presence is not shown in any way. But maybe people just read and have nothing to say or acknowledge. (PS: Or maybe people are showing "maturity", seeing my signature )

OT : @Ajay - much preferred your older 'AJ' profile picture, mate. That one really was artistic.

Even though I had not observed your new signature, I do follow it strictly these days, especially on TBHP and most other places. Talk less, talk only when needed and talk to the point as far as possible.

And thanks for the picture suggestion. Most people have suggested me to go back to the AJ avatar. Will do that ASAP.

Since, I had all the time in the world over this weekend, went to Chevy showroom to take a TD of Optra. But they din't have single piece, not even a display piece. They will call me back when they get one for TD. Please note that I am not in the market to buy a new sedan. Just after reading yours and hundreds of other posts, I wanted to TD Optra to my heart's content before commenting anything about it.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by ajay_satpute

Since, I had all the time in the world over this weekend, went to Chevy showroom to take a TD of Optra. But they din't have single piece, not even a display piece. They will call me back when they get one for TD. Please note that I am not in the market to buy a new sedan. Just after reading yours and hundreds of other posts, I wanted to TD Optra to my heart's content before commenting anything about it.

It is appalling how GM is handing this car. Ninja too had trouble in getting a TD, as did many others. For many people, seeing GM not taking as much interest in the car can be a serious dampener. There have been many cases of people getting put off by VWs attitude (though some like Ninja have had very good experiences as well) - enough to not buy the car.

It seems GM has left it to the potential owners to realize the value of this car and instead of spending on it to improve sales, they have offered this car at lower prices, in the hope that people will pick it up.

GM - if you are listening - If people can't even experience this car, don't expect them to buy it. It never had that killer reputation of purchase-frenzy for it to be bought only on name.

Looking forward to your TD report, when you can manage it. Maybe Keyur can help you and Ninja and arrange for one, since all of you guys are in Pune. Opportunity for a mini-meet?

OT: @Ajay - Good to see the old 'Aj' back
The Signature was because of:
a) Having a more open attitude towards different views (on the forum and otherwise) is a good way to learn.
b) To avoid responding to unnecessary needling, which sometimes happens on the forum (often very subtle).
Some similar thoughts here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/sedans...ml#post2420258
The signature and my profile picture, is a reminder to me also. To remain calm and not to drive safely

[Ford5]

Originally Posted by sriramv.iyer

BRILLIANT RIDE - The only car that I can remember in the south of 20L with an All Wheel Independent Suspension. The plushness of the ride cannot be compared with any other car

Really? Have you forgotten you can still buy a Hyundai Accent with All wheel independent suspension even today for 5 Lakhs, and the "ride" is the same too.. Plush, infact very plush.

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Ford5

Really? Have you forgotten you can still buy a Hyundai Accent with All wheel independent suspension even today for 5 Lakhs, and the "ride" is the same too.. Plush, infact very plush.

Ford5 mate, the rides of the two are leagues apart. Not even a remote comparison. I say that from experience.

Does the Accent have an AWIS? Could you please share the source of this information?

[Ford5]

The 1.6 accent had the AWIS. I can say this confidently because my friend had an accent tornado 1.6, and back in 2001 when the tornado was launched that was its 2nd USP apart from the dohc engine.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...uspension.html

This thread talks about rear independent suspension. But the 1.6 tornado had AWIS. I think back in 2007-8 when the verna was launched hyundai changed the accent setup to torsion beam rear and mcpherson up front.

Carwale says it has AWIS, but the Hyundai India website says otherwise now. And the ride, well I meant from the suspension comfort POV, I feel it glides/doesn't destabilise over huge potholes/bad roads unlike its successor the old verna.

Cheers

[Poitive]

Originally Posted by Ford5

Carwale says it has AWIS, but the Hyundai India website says otherwise now. And the ride, well I meant from the suspension comfort POV, I feel it glides/doesn't destabilise over huge potholes/bad roads unlike its successor the old verna.

Thanks for that link mate. Had seen it ages ago and had forgotten about it.

Is it possible that the 1.5L avatars of the Accent didn't have independent suspension, where as some/all of the 1.6L avatars did have them? This might also explain why the specs vary between sources. My experience has been with a few 1.5L ones, and I feel stretched to even find it comparable with an Optra Magnum on the comfort front as well. Based on many many drives of a few hours on each. I can't really comment on the 1.6 ones as I can't recollect it well enough and had little experience with it. Maybe it is a lot better.

What has your experience been with the Optra, @Ford5 mate?

The Accent is also amongst the lighter sedans around. IIRC about 950-970kgs.

One thing that goes in favour of the Optra, with regards to it's ride is that besides the suspension, it is a heavy car with ample momentum. This momentum doesn't get disturbed too easily. Combined with a softer suspension, it really gives a feeling of it gliding over undulation (with the right tyre pressure, of course). The weight and suspension setup do have some effect on it's agility, however.

Note: All the talk of Agility and Suspension even in the older posts is based on 1-2 people being there in the car.

[sriramv.iyer]

Originally Posted by Ford5

Really? Have you forgotten you can still buy a Hyundai Accent with All wheel independent suspension even today for 5 Lakhs, and the "ride" is the same too.. Plush, infact very plush.

I find it hard to believe a 5L sedan has an AWIS. In fact, I have no good things to say about any suspension from Hyundai (Comes from an ex-Hyundai owner!) - I have lot of good things to say about Hyundai, and suspension is definitely not one of them.

I am definitely not buying that 5L Accent's ride is as plush as Optra.