[Fillmore]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Mind sharing the cost and store details (if within Bangalore)? Been planning to buy this for a while .

Also I remember sometime in the past in one of the cities (Bangalore?), the cops were seizing on vehicles with this bike rack as it blocked the number plate. Don't remember which city this was though.

This one costed 7.4k
Shop
Jayant Probikes & Fitness
Shop No.574, Next to Dominos Pizza, 11th Main, 5th Block, Jayanagara, Bengaluru

On the cops seizing such cars , seems logical
Luckily no one stopped me.

[itisravi]

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

Also I remember sometime in the past in one of the cities (Bangalore?), the cops were seizing on vehicles with this bike rack as it blocked the number plate. Don't remember which city this was though.

It was Bangalore. You will get fined only if the bike protrudes from the sides of your car.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by itisravi

It was Bangalore. You will get fined only if the bike protrudes from the sides of your car.

It's the same everywhere. You are basically at the mercy of the cop who decides to stop you.

Same for any cycle carrier on the roof (Tour de France kinds).

The rules, strictly implemented, actually outlaw ANY luggage carrier on the roof.

Needless to say, the new style hoists carrying dirt bikes (KTMs etc) behind pickups are also absolutely illegal.

Cheers, Doc

[Mi10]

One year of cycling. From 74 kgs to 69 kgs now. Outdoor (4300 kms) + Indoor (~75 hours).



As first anniversary celebration had planned some minor updates.


New carbon shoes from Lake

More professional bike fit aimed at current flexibility levels and current set of goals.

[itisravi]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The rules, strictly implemented, actually outlaw ANY luggage carrier on the roof.

Oh, did not know this. I thought roof top luggage was legal. My Wagon R has OEM roof rails (VXi trim) and the owner's manual even specifies max. load capacity, so I assumed it was.

[Fillmore]

Originally Posted by itisravi

It was Bangalore. You will get fined only if the bike protrudes from the sides of your car.

The article says "Carrying a cycle on a rack attached to your car without proper RTO permissions might invite fines of up to Rs 5,000."

Key is - Without proper RTO permissions.
So does this mean that there is a process to apply for permission to carry multiple cycles ?

Further it also says that carrying 1 cycle is permitted, but multiple are not.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by itisravi

Oh, did not know this. I thought roof top luggage was legal. My Wagon R has OEM roof rails (VXi trim) and the owner's manual even specifies max. load capacity, so I assumed it was.

I'm referring to the roof luggage carriers. Not the rails, which come standard in a model by the manufacturer anywhere in the world. Yet there are thousands of vehicles which carry it. The police turn a blind eye as long as it does not cross a certain heigh (as for the grade separator metal arches made across some roads). But definitely if tou have a wheel jutting out of the side of the width of the vehicle, it is a serious hazard in our packed traffic conditions. Because even if the front of the vehicle passes a gap, the rear is going to hit. In all probability a two wheeler guy riding inches from the side of the vehicle.

[itisravi]

Originally Posted by Fillmore

So does this mean that there is a process to apply for permission to carry multiple cycles ?

There's a tweet from the city police in that mailing-list thread - no protrusions means its okay I guess.

Originally Posted by ebonho

I'm referring to the roof luggage carriers. Not the rails, which come standard in a model by the manufacturer anywhere in the world. Yet there are thousands of vehicles which carry it. The police turn a blind eye as long as it does not cross a certain heigh (as for the grade separator metal arches made across some roads). But definitely if tou have a wheel jutting out of the side of the width of the vehicle, it is a serious hazard in our packed traffic conditions. Because even if the front of the vehicle passes a gap, the rear is going to hit. In all probability a two wheeler guy riding inches from the side of the vehicle.

But you need luggage carriers to be fitted on the rails no? (something like https://www.marutisuzuki.com/genuine...ss/78901m64m10). Agree with you on the hazard part. I wrote the same thing on that thread.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by shipnil

I also feel the 32t at back is not of much use. I don't remember last when I used 34-32t combo on any climb. 34-28 is good enough. On an 8 speed bike having 32 is wastage one precious cassette cog.

As you rightly said 11-28 is more useful.

For me the smallest cog, 12, itself is heavy so 11 would be much harder. I feel 12-28 is a better spread for those without strong legs.

GEARING

Got some great inputs from our seasoned veteran Aditya last evening, and thought of starting this discussion on the group so that it can potentially help others as well fiddling around with their road bike gearing, with different cassette cog combinations, chainrings being a lot more permanent, expensive, and rarer.

The caveat of course is that different types of terrain, riding and riders would call for different solutions. And it's rare to have one fit-all combination, though that is essentially wgat most of all ride with most of the time. Till we wear components out, and buy new ones.

So hear goes ...

I have a SRAM PG-830 11-32. It's got a unique spread. First 6 are close and tall, and last 2 are spaced out and very low for climbing.

11 12 14 16 18 21 26 32

I also have a trainer wheel with a BTwin 12-32 that is more traditional, evenly spaced

12 14 16 18 21 24 28 32

This one has that mythical much sought after 16t cog for that sweet+spot cadence cruising. Most riders not preferring the "blank space" felt in the jump between 15 and 17 (just too high on top, just too spinny just below).

However, when I checked the Decathlon site, this one is not available anymore, and the new one is more like the Shimano HG Claris combination

12 13 15 18 21 24 28 32

But as you can see, cog to cog, each cog (except the last 2 of course), SRAM is taller (faster!)

Then I have the original 12-25 Sunrace cassette that my bike came with from the factory (which the SRAM 11-32 replaced)

12 13 15 17 19 21 23 25

Here too surprisingly (for what is supposed to be a closer spaced narrow ratio cassette) cog to cog (again obviously except the last 2) till the 21 cog the SRAM cogs are taller. Also, it does not have a 16t.

I was wondering whether I really need the 11-32 because 95% of my riding I never use the 32 (ditto 11, and to an extent 12, but that's another story).

I can climb all our hills in 21 or max 26. Bopdev 26, Dive and Katraj 21 (even 18).

I need the 32 only on Bhor and Lavasa, which I do maybe once in a year. So does it make sense to lug around that extra 32 cog the rest of the year? Also, if 32 is unused, and so is the 11 most of the time, you are essentially riding a 8 speed only in name. Your operational range is essentially much narrower.

Never climbed Sinhagad on the road bike because of the road, so I don't really know. But the third (last) part is really steep and I don't think it would be any different to Bhor, Lavasa. So a 32.

The best cassette (if I were to buy a new one that is, which eventually I will) which I could find in terms of ratios is again a SRAM, PG-830 11-28.

11 12 14 16 18 21 24 28

It's the same as my 11-32 SRAM till the 21t cog and then it has taller last 2 cogs of 24 (instead of 26) and 28 (instead of 32).

In comparison, the 11-28 of Shimano is lower cog to cog and this the SRAM one is superior (for me, looking at speed, and amateur masters racing).

11 13 15 17 19 21 24 28

But if I were to use one of my current 3 existing cassettes, what is the view and advice of the regular riders here?

Do you see any value in the (in name) narrow range 12-25?

Do you see any value in running the current SRAM 11-32 as my daily rider/racer for Poona type rolling terrain with short punchy hills, and shift to the BTwin 11-32 with more regular spacing and more lower gears (21 24 28 32 fir the BTwin vs 21 26 32 for the SRAM) before some serious climbing ride or tour?

Graaja, Ninja, Eric, Mi10, Ravi, Alpha, Axe, Fillmore, others I apologise for leaving out by name due to my advanced years, looking forward to your views please!

Cheers, Doc

[kat]

Originally Posted by ebonho

GEARING
But if I were to use one of my current 3 existing cassettes, what is the view and advice of the regular riders here?

Do you see any value in the (in name) narrow range 12-25?

Do you see any value in running the current SRAM 11-32 as my daily rider/racer for Poona type rolling terrain with short punchy hills, and shift to the BTwin 11-32 with more regular spacing and more lower gears (21 24 28 32 fir the BTwin vs 21 26 32 for the SRAM) before some serious climbing ride or tour?

Hi Doc, 28 is more than sufficient for climbs up to 6% gradients provided the rider is reasonably fit and can grind it out during shorter steeper sections >6%. 32 will make sense during consistently long sections with gradients of 8% or so, but those type of roads are typically far and few in India.

I recently purchased a 11-32 - 10 speed cassette for my trainer, predominantly for riding on zwift. Zwift has a couple of these long climbs (10+ kms) with average gradients above 8% and without a 32, I would have struggled to grind it out. Of course zwift has an option to set trainer difficulty (which is a % between 0 and 100, 100 being almost real world setting) and I can reduce the setting to lower than 100 as I require (sort of virtually increasing some teeth at the rear cogs), but that takes the fun out of zwifting.

So, my suggestion would be to have a 11-28 or a 12-28 as daily driver. 11-32 could be a backup as you have pointed out.
Regarding the spacing of gears, it is a very personal choice considering the cadence/power that one feels comfortable putting out along with the type of terrain that one rides in.
Also, 11-25 is more suitable for very flat rides. And if you are usually a low cadence rider (about 60-70 rpm on climbs), you can manage with the 25.

P.S. All of this is considering you have a 50-34 at the front. 52-36 will again change the dynamics drastically.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by kat

Hi Doc, 28 is more than sufficient for climbs up to 6% gradients provided the rider is reasonably fit and can grind it out during shorter steeper sections >6%. 32 will make sense during consistently long sections with gradients of 8% or so, but those type of roads are typically far and few in India.

So, my suggestion would be to have a 11-28 or a 12-28 as daily driver. 11-32 could be a backup as you have pointed out.
Regarding the spacing of gears, it is a very personal choice considering the cadence/power that one feels comfortable putting out along with the type of terrain that one rides in.
Also, 11-25 is more suitable for very flat rides. And if you are usually a low cadence rider (about 60-70 rpm on climbs), you can manage with the 25.

P.S. All of this is considering you have a 50-34 at the front. 52-36 will again change the dynamics drastically.

Thanks Kat!

I must point out that I'm 85 kilos and climbing is not my strong suite. I have a compact 50-34 of course.

Bhor, Lavasa and Sinhagad are all 7-9 km and around 7.5% average gradient. But there are many 25-30%+ kicker segments en route. Especially the first two.

Yup, my climbing cadence is low. Flats I'm 85-95.

Cheers, Doc

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Yup, my climbing cadence is low. Flats I'm 85-95.

Cheers, Doc

Just adding to this since my edit window has closed.

Yup, my climbing cadence is low. I don't have a cadence sensor but from my trainer experience I'd say 60-70. Regardless of cog, that's my natural climbing cadence.

Flats I'm 85-95.

Chees, Doc

[Mi10]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Thanks Kat!

I must point out that I'm 85 kilos and climbing is not my strong suite. I have a compact 50-34 of course.

Bhor, Lavasa and Sinhagad are all 7-9 km and around 7.5% average gradient. But there are many 25-30%+ kicker segments en route. Especially the first two.

Yup, my climbing cadence is low. Flats I'm 85-95.

Cheers, Doc

In my opinion, the gearing spread totally depends on;
Conditions / Terrain
your Goal

If you not really a climbing person, and have no specific reason to worry about in the place you are riding even 11-23 should work. One of my friends here has a 52/36 over a 11-23 since he is using it only for fast rides over the ECR (which is like flattest of Flat roads in chennai)

I am running 52/36 with 11-28 on my Merida and specifically the SRAM 11-28 cassette in my Trainer as well. Very comfortable for my kinda of training (TT, road race) and location (Chennai dry flats)

The Look is running a larger 54/42 with 11-30 setup. But running 30 on this is running on the edge of the derailleur's limits. In fact i am hardly a heavy guy and relay on my cadence more than torque essentially limiting my ratios further in this bike. 90% of time only run 3 cogs (21-19-17) and anything below this i will lose my sweet spot for cadence ! But the lower chain ring 42 can actually help me use more cogs in case i take this bike to hills.

IMO, if you are on Compact gear set (50/34) i think 11-28 should totally work for you. If you planning to train around elevation profiles, consider 11-30 it is a good choice.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Mi10

IMO, if you are on Compact gear set (50/34) i think 11-28 should totally work for you. If you planning to train around elevation profiles, consider 11-30 it is a good choice.

Thanks Mi10!

Yeah, the SRAM PG-830 11-30 is on my radar as well. Been suggested by a pro racer friend of mine as the best of both worlds between the 11-32 and the 11-28.

11 13 15 17 20 23 26 30

I doesn't however have the 16t cog, and I've been reading on many forums that the 15 to 17 gap tends to leave riders in no-man's land in the meat of the cassette's mid range (the operating core for 90% riding). What are your thoughts on that?

Another advantage of this cassette if I choose to go with it is that my bike's original Claris 2400 SS rear derailleur can work on it (30t). Even though the Shimano website claims that the Claris SS (short cage) derailleur can take a max 32t, we have tried everything (B screw etc.) but not managed to set it up.

So on my 11-32 I use a MTB/hybrid series Alivio long cage rear derailleur. Works beautifully. Smooth effortless shifts. Just does not "look" road bike at the rear.

Of my current two available 11-32 cassettes, I like the closer spaced taller higher gears of the SRAM for 95% of the rolling terrain in Pune with short punchy 5 km hills of 4.5 to 6% for the most part.

11 12 14 16 18 21 26 32

For the longer steeper climbs of 7-9 km of 7-8% however I am stuck with only two usable cog 26 or 32 (21 gets quickly used up in the initial flatter gradients before having to shift permanently till the summit).

The BTwin 12-32 on the other hand looses the additional 11 from the top end but gives an additional cog in the climbing range between 21 and 32, the first 5 cogs being exactly the same as the SRAM's, so we have

12 14 16 18 21 24 28 32

So instead of just the 26 in the SRAM I now get both a 24 and a 28 as well.

So I was thinking aside from the hassle of changing cassettes, in case there is no need to re-index the shifting, I can get the cassette removal tool and do it myself at home and not have to go to the mechanic.

I anyways swap between the original wheel with the SRAM for road use and the trainer wheel with the BTwin for the trainer, and the shifting is fine.

Cheers, Doc

[shipnil]

Originally Posted by ebonho

But if I were to use one of my current 3 existing cassettes, what is the view and advice of the regular riders here?

Doc, you already have researched the topic thoroughly and also many seasoned riders have already commented so I may not have much to add. Below is my personal experience.

To go for 8 speed bike was a purely financial decision. There itself the need to think how to optimize this became necessary. I have a Sunrace 12-32 cassette. In the early days, most of my time was spent in 18-21, mainly on flats or little inclines. The issue with this, as you mentioned, is 21 was spinning fast and 18 was a bit harder on knees. I explored various websites and a general opinion was the cog shifts should be 1.1 to 1.15 ratio. 21-18 is 1.16 hence that issue of spinning fast or harder gear. Also, for me 14-12 jump not optimum as it is also 1.16. After couple of years, I am able to stay mostly in 16-18 so that issue of spinning fast is not there.

I haven't been to Bhor or Lavasa, so can't comment but for inclines on NH4, I am good with 28 cog. In the last 2 years I have used 32 cog, may be once at best. So I think it's a dead weight.

I think the cassette that you have that gives you ratio like 13-15-17-19-21 should be better one, maxing out at 28. From your post, I see you like 16t very much. Not sure if 15-17 would be able to fulfill that need though.

BTW, have you given thought of mixing and matching cogs from different cassettes? I think 2mm allen key should be able separate cogs. Atleast the cassette that I have can be disassembled like that.