The Home Appliance thread

[Gill]

Originally Posted by RemingtonSteele

I would suggest going for Siemens Front Load fully automatic washing machines out of my personal experience. I am continuing to use one for last 11 years without any issues, with superb wash quality and low usage of water. Not to forget I even had location shifting twice duing these years from Pune-Bangalore-Pune by movers nad packers.
Siemens washing machines are not that well advertised but they have got a great reputation; I happened to choose it on similar mouth publicity report.

Siemens After sales service in small towns (Mohali, Patiala) availability might be a constraint, moreover as they are direct import, it makes them costlier.Does Siemens has a offering in 25k range?

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@Gill: 800rm v 1000rpm spin. Can make a big difference, clothes spun at 1000 dry faster.

Originally Posted by kpzen

1068 and 8068 have different motors hence, different spin RPM.
The front panel is also different.

Thanks, I missed that point while going through the comparison.

Originally Posted by Neilguy

Yes they surely do dry faster, but do they dry Rs. 2000 worth faster? IMO F1056LDP seems better because of the higher spin speeed and Bio Care option, IF you are going to use those options. Otherwise the cheaper options should work just as good.

1056 is at the top of list. I would prefer a machine with least possible Electronic circuits, as their chances of going down are the highest. This was the reason; I opted for Senator non digital version. I will read more regarding Bio care and other features offered by LG.
Would be great if LG users can share the reliability of E-circuits and machines!

[kpzen]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

The black stuff
by popular demand:
Attachment 461442

Damn !!!
Thats a Jugaad on a 25k brand new machine.

Remove it and try leveling the machine with adjustable spindle (rubber legs) of the machine.

Originally Posted by aargee

But I would like to ask you & Thad sir few questions...
- Is the air quality the same as it was 5 years ago or is the water pollutant level the same?
- Are we doing necessary servicing? For instance, the motor in the WM's needs some lubrication in between; though the company might claim its not required, the dust in air is increasing everyday is bound to accumulate within the motor. We cannot see it though.
- Most importantly, are we all getting a steady 220V 50hz output? Absolutely NO

None of the things are troublefree these days, be it WM, Fridge, Grinder, Mixie, Oven or anything.

You forgot a very imp. point here, CUSTOMER NEED.

Some years back, ppl use to buy products with a mind set of using it for 7~10 yrs.

Now, how many of us use our customer durables for more than 5yrs. ??Consumer durables has become a social status symbol.
So many ppl just change their products just to have a change. A customer with a OK running 3 yr old CTV gets tempted to buy the LCD just for a change.

Competition is increasing -- > Price is coming down --> What does a manufacturer do ? --> Cost cutting to survive in the market --> Compromises on quality ---> Overall life of a product is reduced ----> customer is still satisfied

There are very few ppl who would be ready to pay a 10k premium and get a Siemens.

Originally Posted by aargee

But...what is this? Looks like a small sheet of plywood to me!!! Is it the rat mesh or something? What does the installation or owner's manual say about this part in the parts identification?

No, its not a part of the machine.

Originally Posted by Neilguy

Yes they surely do dry faster, but do they dry Rs. 2000 worth faster? IMO F1056LDP seems better because of the higher spin speeed and Bio Care option, IF you are going to use those options. Otherwise the cheaper options should work just as good.

Motor + Front Panel + PCB for Rs 2000 is OK for a CBU model. Isn't it ?

[RemingtonSteele]

Originally Posted by Gill

Siemens After sales service in small towns (Mohali, Patiala) availability might be a constraint, moreover as they are direct import, it makes them costlier.Does Siemens has a offering in 25k range?

Well I am not sure about the sales n service in Mohali, you can check their website .: RBS HOME APPLIANCES :.
Yes, they offer in same range where IFB, Samsung and LG offers. I think they also offer 100% drying capability nowadays.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by kpzen

Damn !!!
Thats a Jugaad on a 25k brand new machine.

Remove it and try leveling the machine with adjustable spindle (rubber legs) of the machine.

Wrong! It's a 30K machine!

I haven't put it yet, and after my in-the-run adjustments yesterday the machine is stable and has stopped shaking. It is quite satisfactory, in fact.

The surface it is standing on is not 100% level and even. It might help to take up small imperfections in that, the idea (hope) being that it will crush just enough to smooth that out, and, by taking a slight imprint of the machine feet above, and surface imperfections below, will ensure that the machine never moves unless we want it to. That's the theory.

I will be setting it level, and I will have it level front to back too.

[Raccoon]

Originally Posted by aargee

Morons!!! roast them royaly, when they come in the evening; they think every customer is a fool!!!




Who does like a product that is troublesome ?

But I would like to ask you & Thad sir few questions...
- Is the air quality the same as it was 5 years ago or is the water pollutant level the same?
- Are we doing necessary servicing? For instance, the motor in the WM's needs some lubrication in between; though the company might claim its not required, the dust in air is increasing everyday is bound to accumulate within the motor. We cannot see it though.
- Most importantly, are we all getting a steady 220V 50hz output? Absolutely NO

None of the things are troublefree these days, be it WM, Fridge, Grinder, Mixie, Oven or anything.

My point is, things are bound to get repaired sooner or later, but again I wouldn't expect them to get repaired within 3-5 years. If I'm able to get an electronic appliance working more than 5 years, I'm happy.

I beg to differ entirely on that. If you consider the example of washing machines, then as I'd posted earlier, we still have this Videocon (reportedly a Hitachi) WM which has been going great guns since maybe 15 years or more. It has not broken down a SINGLE time. How come the polluted water, air, power fluctuations, etc., does not affect it?

If the manufacturer has not recommended lubing a motor when it does require lubing, then it only means that it is a bad product/company overall. Besides you may actually damage the motor by lubing (if it is not recommended). Motors can be made that do not require external lubing for a VERY long time.

I can keep going on with examples - we have a Siemens landline phone and a Sanyo cordless phone which are also maybe over 12 years old. Never needed any repairs. How come dust/air/power fluctuations, etc has not affected them? In fact they are imported, so they should have kicked the bucket much earlier, in India!! On the other hand 2 much newer Indian made Beetel (Bharti Teletech) phones conked out after about 6 months. They didn't even get time to accumulate much dust and stuff, lol! Another Beetel feature phone, provided by BSNL has inherent defects.

Can state several personal examples and even examples of people I know, where good stuff is still lasting like over 1 or 2 or even more decades!

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

As to the environmental aspects that you mention, India is indeed a hard place, especially for delicate electronics, but my view is that if it sold in India then it should be fit for Indian conditions. If it is manufactured in India, then even more so.

+1 to that!

Originally Posted by kpzen

Damn !!!
You forgot a very imp. point here, CUSTOMER NEED.

Some years back, ppl use to buy products with a mind set of using it for 7~10 yrs.

Now, how many of us use our customer durables for more than 5yrs. ??Consumer durables has become a social status symbol.
So many ppl just change their products just to have a change. A customer with a OK running 3 yr old CTV gets tempted to buy the LCD just for a change.

Competition is increasing -- > Price is coming down --> What does a manufacturer do ? --> Cost cutting to survive in the market --> Compromises on quality ---> Overall life of a product is reduced ----> customer is still satisfied

There are very few ppl who would be ready to pay a 10k premium and get a Siemens.

Besides what I have already mentioned above, I don't think its just about customer need. Its also about companies deliberately making low life products, so that a customer would need to keep buying newer stuff. It is also about plain shabby products and poor quality control and low grade components to maximize profits.

Prices and all may have come down on many counts, etc., the market has also grown. Technology has also changed, and manufacturing costs have come down.

Any product that is unreliable/does not last/needs repairs should not be supported by customers. I always try to research any product before buying and try to estimate its durability. If consumers do not do this, companies will have zero incentive to build durable, reliable, longer lasting products. Even if you like to replace products just for the heck of it, you can still sell your existing stuff as 2nd hand, so that it can be useful to others. And you are also much more likely to buy products that do not cause you headaches as long as you own them. After all, we get what we deserve.



As for our Onida tv, some other repair guy came today, and like how unexplained phenomenon happen, the tv did not turn itself off a single time in the 20 - 25 mins. that he was at home. And as expected, the problem restarted few mins. after he left. Anyway, he promised to call tommorrow and not close the complaint until he calls again tomorrow to check on the problem.

As for the flicker, even this guy says its an issue with Tata Sky!! Gawd... these guys are amazing. It seems they might be trained to give such answers. Still, can any Tata Sky users here comment if they notice a slight flicker/image instability with Tata Sky compared to other connections?

[Gill]

Called local office (Chandigarh) of Siemens, they passed me to Delhi office as Chd office doesn't stocks WMs. After calling 4 different guys, finally I was told that, I need to drive to Delhi to buy the Machine and Service of machine shall be paid and I have to take care of traveling expenses of guy coming from Delhi. Siemens is out of consideration, as they are too demanding.
I was quoted following prices for LG WM:-
F8068LDP-18.8K
F1068LDP-20.7K
F1056LDP-22.6K
Have to pick one out of these. Do suggest.
1056 has Fault Diagnosis and Remaining Time Delay, White & Bulky wash program, Bio where as F1068 doesn’t have these features, Spin speed is same for both the models.
1068 has higher spin speed (1000>800) then 8068, rest all is same among two.

[vasoo]

Originally Posted by aargee

If you're happy with IFB, go for it. Just go back few pages & you can see a whole lot of discussion on WM's discussed to death; most of the pros & cons have been discussed.

....

I had a repair for my 8 yr old IFB WM recently. I casually checked with the repair guy and he recommended that dont buy the newer IFB models! They are apparently of much poor quality than the ones they used to sell in earlier days. He says most of the components in older models were German-made and hence were of very good quality and durability. The new ones have many Chinese and locally made components and are of inferior quality.

[AWD]

Talking of IFB, my WM is lying out of order for the last 15 days. Have made numerous calls Service dept/custmoer care, service execs. came & noted down the parts needed for replacement as the machine is under AMC. Since then they say the parts haven't arrived yet. Now, I'll wait for a couple of days before finally going down to the service center & blasting them off.

Folks, stay away fro IFB. Its not the same IFB that used to be.

[nirmaljusdoit]

Originally Posted by Neilguy

I have recently bought a Panasonic 300 lts Bottom Freezer refrigerator. Cost me around Rs. 21K in Hyd @ Reliance Digital store. No problems so far and I really like the practicality of not having to bend down for the more frequent uses of a refrigerator.

On the upside, I also found out that a bottom freezer refrigerator consumes upto 20% less electricity per year compared to a regular refrigerator.

Neil - thanks for the feedback ! The fact about the power saving bottom freezer is very interesting, simple yet revolutionary !

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

Misunderstanding! It did not...would minimise the vibration.

The great Indian juggad!!!

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

As to the environmental aspects that you mention,...manufactured in India, then even more so.

Originally Posted by kpzen

You forgot a very imp. point here, CUSTOMER NEED.

Originally Posted by kpzen

Some years back, ppl use to buy products with a mind set of using it for 7~10 yrs.

Oh!!! hold on...things in past not to be compared now; things in past were less complicated, easy to maintain. Simple example from our own community - 2 strokes to 4 strokes!!!

Originally Posted by kpzen

Consumer durables has become a social status symbol.

+1

Originally Posted by kpzen

Competition is increasing...product is reduced ----> customer is still satisfied

Err...my point is different; good maintenance even on an average product will give long life.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

If you consider the example...does not affect it?

Same reply as above; things of past...

Originally Posted by Raccoon

If the manufacturer has not...require external lubing for a VERY long time.

But we know a motor requires a lubing; we need to do it; even the keels in the door requires lubing.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

I can keep going...where good stuff is still lasting like over 1 or 2 or even more decades!

@Racoon - sry that I didn't read you long post, but Thad sir here had a reliable German product that he owned for more than a decade. Like I keep saying, comparing things of past will not help. Things were much simpler.

Originally Posted by Raccoon

It seems they might be trained to give such answers.

110% no doubt - they're given the training OR they've learned from their peers. Simply - pass the buck, don't own the responsibility. Only a few can accept when they're confident of what they're doing.

Let me know the outcome @Raccoon, if they aren't closing the case to your satisfaction, shoot an email & those guys will tremble to death to fix the issue.

Thad sir, kpzen, Raccoon jis - I've only thing to say; any electronic, electrical, mechanical, wave, thermo, magnetic, physical, mechanical & whatever device, automobile, gadgets are all prone to maintenance & break down. How often is something to ask. Comparing things with past is of no use because a TV with picture tube's output is no way closer to LCD or Plasma, so is the price.

Frankly speaking, how many of us wipe the LCD panel everyday? wipe the laptop panel? May be we do for a month, after that, next gadget & keep moving on.

My point - any appliance is prone to break, but how soon or how long is what it matters; when it goes on strike, how long the downtime can be tolerated is the question. Probably if Onida guys turn up quicker than anticipated & fixed issues to perfect, our friend Raccoon ji WILL definitely opt for Onida next time.

Edit - Thad sir, you remember our BSD? He bought a LG WM & it conked off in 2 days & LG gladly returned his money back; but you still went ahead & bought LG right? Like I keep saying, its not the appliance that makes one happy, its the people around you.

@Vasoo - Bang right

[Raccoon]

But we know a motor requires a lubing; we need to do it; even the keels in the door requires lubing.

Keel? Do you mean hinges? Yes, they do. But do you also oil the bearings in your car/two wheeler? I hope you don't and they are sealed with grease inside.

Err...my point is different; good maintenance even on an average product will give long life.

Well, how should I "maintain" a CRT tv for instance? I hope we all know that wiping the screen is going to do nothing to prolong its life or work better. Even a bit of dust inside does not matter, as long as it is not affecting heat transfer or something. As for power spikes, we have a central high and low voltage protector. Beyond this, there is precious li'l a customer can do as "maintenance".

My point - any appliance is prone to break, but how soon or how long is what it matters; when it goes on strike, how long the downtime can be tolerated is the question. Probably if Onida guys turn up quicker than anticipated & fixed issues to perfect, our friend Raccoon ji WILL definitely opt for Onida next time.

I really doubt they will be able to make it "perfect". Perfect as in the way it was when it was working fine. Anyway, as I said, I don't like products that need repairs... so unless there is a very compelling reason, like a great product and reports that Onida has really improved on quality, I may not opt for Onida again next time around. For me product quality is more imp. than the service. The best service is the one that you never needed.

Oh!!! hold on...things in past not to be compared now; things in past were less complicated, easy to maintain. Simple example from our own community - 2 strokes to 4 strokes!!!

Not necessarily so... at least not always. For eg. out washing machine is also fully automatic, with a touch panel and with PCBs. Now thats not too different from what you get today, even after maybe 15 years! Ok, the new ones may have a few more functions and stuff, and may look more modern, but thats about it.

As for complicated things tending to break down, lets take your example. 2-strokers ruled the Indian market until Hero Honda came out. And what did we experience? Its more complicated 4 stroke engine could outlast a 2 stroker! Remember the good old CD100? There were many of them when I was really li'l... and you still get to see quite a few on the road even today, often with the original engine! Yes, this may not even be a fair example as 4 strokers are anyway supposed to last longer. But what I'm trying to say is that if something really has quality, simpler/complicated does not always have to matter. Things may be more complicated but we have better better tools/processes/tech to manufacture it.

Let me know the outcome @Raccoon, if they aren't closing the case to your satisfaction, shoot an email & those guys will tremble to death to fix the issue.

Thanks a lot mate. Will do that. But I should give them a chance to fix things, before I consider escalating. Lets see what happens tomorrow.

[benbsb29]

Originally Posted by kpzen

So many ppl just change their products just to have a change. A customer with a OK running 3 yr old CTV gets tempted to buy the LCD just for a change.

I nearly was victim to the same behaviour.
We moved to a new house, built a LCD unit and decided we would replace our perfectly fine, 4 year old Samsung CRT TV with an LCD. We even went around looking at available models in shops and were on the verge of finalizing.

I then thought, do i really need it?! Pat came the answer "NO".

We have now postponed this decision indefinitely......... till the LEDs become more affordable.

Currently, the CRT TV on the LCD unit is an aesthetic disaster, but what the heck.

[Raccoon]

Now the Onida guy says he will have to take the whole tv to their service center. And he may be able to arrange for transport only after couple of days. After that, it will take another 2-3 days to fix the issue. And after that I reckon they may take couple days to arrange for transport to send it back!!

Told him that we would rather not repair it and go for a new set, if they refund the charges already paid. He refused.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by benbsb29

I nearly was victim to the same behaviour.
We moved to a new house, built a LCD unit and decided we would replace our perfectly fine, 4 year old Samsung CRT TV with an LCD. We even went around looking at available models in shops and were on the verge of finalizing.

I then thought, do i really need it?! Pat came the answer "NO".

We have now postponed this decision indefinitely......... till the LEDs become more affordable.

You are still only half way there
- Why replace it when LEDs become more affordable?

IMHO, it needs replacement only when
- it breaks down
Or
- you have enough HD content to watch which looks better on a LCD/LED.

CRT renders non-HD stuff much better than LCD.

[bblost]

^but the damn manufacturers no longer sell the 100 mhz TV's.

Those imho appeared to have best images to my untrained eyes.