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Old 16th February 2018, 11:24   #1171
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Pure DW is a neutral fluid pH 7 i.e. neither alkaline or acidic and thus will not corrode anything.
I use Dielectric Silicone Grease and sometimes spray paint with terminal coat paint.

Actually I forgot to update. One time I was in need of distilled water and was not able to get it from battery shop. So, just walked into a medical store and asked him to give me a 1 ltr plastic bottle with medical purpose distilled water. Looks similar to the normal saline/glucose bottle. Use it and did not see any issue whatsoever except my pocket was lighter since they are costlier.

Thinking of getting one of these someday to save quick buck.

https://guide.alibaba.com/shopping-g...r-machine.html
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Old 16th February 2018, 22:21   #1172
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I use Dielectric Silicone Grease and sometimes spray paint with terminal coat paint. Use it and did not see any issue whatsoever except my pocket was lighter since they are costlier.
Lab grade DW is more expensive & probably overkill for batteries. Where did you buy the silicone grease from? I'd like a few tubes of the stuff.
Quote:
Thinking of getting one of these someday to save quick buck.
How does one save? Not according to my calculations.

Given the price of those gadgets (around $80-90/Rs 5-6K) I could get about 200 l of good quality DW which would last me, about..well..50 top ups @ 4 litres per instance (for 2 batteries). And at a top up frequency of once every 4 months/3 per year (12 litres/year) I am looking at a duration spanning some 16.6 years. So, not worth the $$ IMHO i.e. better to buy than make. For a single battery system you double the time span.

But yes, the big advantage is you are hopefully assured of the quality of DW those appliances produce.

Last edited by R2D2 : 16th February 2018 at 22:24.
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Old 19th February 2018, 09:55   #1173
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Lab grade DW is more expensive & probably overkill for batteries. Where did you buy the silicone grease from? I'd like a few tubes of the stuff.

Our own Anabond 662. Use it in plumbing maintenance also (tap threads and flush tank parts (internal) etc.). Got the big tube (Rs.400 odd). Amazon is listing it.

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But yes, the big advantage is you are hopefully assured of the quality of DW those appliances produce.
Yes. Peace of mind and I have a requirement for 3.5 KVa Tall tubular batteries (4 nos, 150 mAh) so might be using it frequently and hopefully might not need to visit the battery quacks for top up work.
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Old 19th February 2018, 12:00   #1174
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Our own Anabond 662. Use it in plumbing maintenance also (tap threads and flush tank parts (internal) etc.). Got the big tube (Rs.400 odd). Amazon is listing it.
Thanks for this pointer. I'll buy it from Amazon.

Quote:
Yes. Peace of mind and I have a requirement for 3.5 KVa Tall tubular batteries (4 nos, 150 mAh) so might be using it frequently and hopefully might not need to visit the battery quacks for top up work.
The machine produces about 1 l/hr and consumes 750W of power. Maintaining 4 150 AH batteries in the summer will require quite a bit of water.

If you're really particular about the quality of DW you could buy lab grade water from a local supplier. It still works out way cheaper than making the DW yourself.
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Old 21st February 2018, 13:34   #1175
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Update: Drilled a hole to the cupboard and routed the battery cables through it. Cupboard doors can now be closed, but the battery in its enclosure is mid way

Inverter Batteries-cupboard_look.jpg

Why the thought of extending the input/output electrical wires didn't pop up rather than extending the battery cables?
Inverter Batteries-inner.jpg

Inverter Batteries-inner_with_battery.jpg

Checked with Microtek and they suggested it can be done with no harm. Next purchase is the multi core wire and a single phase wire to extend the input and output wires.

By doing this, the input and output wires will come through the hole and the inverter will be placed at the top of battery enclosure to the side of the wall.

Yet to purchase and fill in DW.

Last edited by dre@ms : 21st February 2018 at 13:53.
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Old 21st February 2018, 14:26   #1176
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Originally Posted by dre@ms View Post
By doing this, the input and output wires will come through the hole and the inverter will be placed at the top of battery enclosure to the side of the wall.
have not read all your past posts on this topic, but if you remove the floats on the battery and use regular flat covers to the cells, the battery may fit inside the cupboard. You can eliminate the trolley in that case. If there is no space left for the inverter, you can wall mount the inverter alone. My friend has wall mounted his battery too btw for space saving.
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Old 21st February 2018, 20:37   #1177
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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have not read all your past posts on this topic, but if you remove the floats on the battery and use regular flat covers to the cells, the battery may fit inside the cupboard. You can eliminate the trolley in that case. If there is no space left for the inverter, you can wall mount the inverter alone. My friend has wall mounted his battery too btw for space saving.
These batteries are very heavy and it would be very difficult to know the level, let alone filling them with distill water. Also batteries need to have ventilation.
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Old 21st February 2018, 20:52   #1178
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As I said in my 'PS' section in the last response it is easier to relocate the battery inverter combination and extend the output wire
Quote:
Originally Posted by dre@ms View Post
Why the thought of extending the input/output electrical wires didn't pop up rather than extending the battery cables?

Yet to purchase and fill in DW.
Hmm, but I did tell you in my previous message to extend the output wire since it will be easier to relocate the inverter/battery combo than extending the battery charging cables.

What do you mean by 'single phase wire'? You mean single core? Buy multi-strand wire of the correct gauge. Ask Microtek about this wire specification.

At the cost of repetition - don't do this modification unless you or the technician have the correct skills + tools.

Batteries should not be kept in enclosed spaces. Remember the explosive gas bit I told you about? You really don't want all that gas accumulating in the cabinet. It also becomes difficult to check and top up DW if a battery is in a cabinet/cupboard. Give these modifications a good think before implementation. Or, you'll wind up with unexpected and unwanted results.

Fill the DW if your batteries are running at mid to low levels as indicated by the floats.

Last edited by R2D2 : 21st February 2018 at 20:57. Reason: typos
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Old 21st February 2018, 21:09   #1179
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:
Originally Posted by diyguy View Post
have not read all your past posts on this topic, but if you remove the floats on the battery and use regular flat covers to the cells, the battery may fit inside the cupboard. You can eliminate the trolley in that case. If there is no space left for the inverter, you can wall mount the inverter alone. My friend has wall mounted his battery too btw for space saving.
Did try this, but short of 2 inches without the floats. Unfortunately the partition wood is fixed and hence cant be removed to accommodate the battery.

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These batteries are very heavy and it would be very difficult to know the level, let alone filling them with distill water. Also batteries need to have ventilation.
Yes, the battery is very heavy and can be lifted only with additional hands.

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Hmm, but I did tell you in my previous message to extend the output wire since it will be easier to relocate the inverter/battery combo than extending the battery charging cables.
My bad, missed to interpret it properly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
What do you mean by 'single phase wire'? You mean single core? Buy multi-strand wire of the correct gauge. Ask Microtek about this wire specification.

At the cost of repetition - don't do this unless you or the technician have the correct skills + tools.
Yes, single core. Bought 2 meters of 1.5 inches multi-strand cable and the DIY is due tomorrow. As suggested by the technician, the input plug adapter would be removed and the additional meter cable would be connected to it and wrapped with insulation tape. Then the adapter would be connected to the new wires earth, neutral and phase respectively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Batteries should not be kept in enclosed spaces. Remember the explosive gas bit I told you about? You really don't want all that gas accumulating in the cabinet. It also becomes difficult to check and top up DW if a battery is in a cabinet/cupboard. Give these modifications a good think before implementation. Or, you'll wind up with unexpected results.
The enclosure is not a tight fit. Its very large for this battery and have been using this from 2013 with no issues. Will take due care in not moving it close to the walls and leave atleast a inch or 2 space. Have to keep it under covers so as to safe guard it from my 7 year old who is curious on new things and my stuff.

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Fill the DW if your batteries are running at mid to low levels as indicated by the floats.
This is still due and should be completed by this weekend.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 02:51   #1180
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

I have a unique situation and thought this thread could help me out. We are looking at upgrading our inverter which was a Luminous single battery type to something bigger and better. Our monthly consumption is 170 units but do note we live in coorg where powercuts are far more frequent and at times we loose power for an entire rainy season.

So with these requirements in mind could you recommend which model and number of batteries i should go for? Confused between the 2 and the 3kva inverter or should i go for a bigger one? Also any luck the inverter will be able to power a electric motor?

The dealer is recommending the 2kva with double batteries, but the battery wont be luminous though. So is there better batteries in the market?

Also what would be the cost of the system so we dont get ripped off?

Maddy
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:44   #1181
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

Quote:

So with these requirements in mind could you recommend which model and number of batteries i should go for? Confused between the 2 and the 3kva inverter or should i go for a bigger one? Also any luck the inverter will be able to power a electric motor?

The dealer is recommending the 2kva with double batteries, but the battery wont be luminous though. So is there better batteries in the market?

Also what would be the cost of the system so we dont get ripped off?

Maddy
Before we can answer your queries, we need to know a few things. What type of electric motor ?

If it is a small fhp (fractional horse power) motor of about half HP powering a pumpset, it is doable with a 2 KVA inverter. I am allowing some margin here.
Generally it is better to go with a larger capacity Inverter so that you don't starve of power when you need it.
Batteries come in many capacities. It depends on the inverter.
If you ask me , it would be ideal to get a 2 KVA inverter and a small petrol driven generator.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 12:29   #1182
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Default Re: Inverter Batteries

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Originally Posted by maddy42 View Post
I have a unique situation and thought this thread could help me out. We are looking at upgrading our inverter which was a Luminous single battery type to something bigger and better. Our monthly consumption is 170 units but do note we live in coorg where powercuts are far more frequent and at times we loose power for an entire rainy season.

So with these requirements in mind could you recommend which model and number of batteries i should go for? Confused between the 2 and the 3kva inverter or should i go for a bigger one? Also any luck the inverter will be able to power a electric motor?

The dealer is recommending the 2kva with double batteries, but the battery wont be luminous though. So is there better batteries in the market?

Also what would be the cost of the system so we dont get ripped off?

Maddy
Inverter ratings are based on your peak power consumption. If 170 units is uniformly spread over the whole day, then your hourly requirement is (170 x 1000)/(30x24) = 236W. As consumption is rarely stead, a factor of 2 is fair assumption, so your peak load will be 236 x 2 = 472, say 500W, well within the capacity of a 800KVA inverter and one battery.

If power cuts are prolonged, say beyond 10 hours/day, then you will better off with your current inverter, backed up by a generator. The inverter will take care of your normal load, and the generator extra load as well as charging the inverter batteries when there is prolonged power outage.

Battery capacity in AH is for a 10 hour discharge. So a 150 AH, 12V battery can supply 180VA over a 10 hour period. The catch is that as the load increases, say to 360VA, the capacity is derated, so you will get 3 hours instead of theoretical 5 hours. In case your load is low but you want longer duration from the batteries, increase the battery size, from 150AH to 300AH or more. This can be with a higher capacity battery or having multiple batteries connected in parallel.

Regarding powering a motor, a single battery inverter is normally 800KVA, which translates to 500W to 550W load. Further any motor will take at least 3 times the running current for starting, hence any thing less than 2KVA inverter will not start a 1/2 HP motor. If you get a generator, then it can power the motor directly, bypassing the inverter.

The economics of inverter is skewed for shorter duration, say 5 to 8 hours, beyond that a generator is better option. For fair price of Inverter, Batteries and Generator, search the net for suppliers. Some will ship free others charge for shipment to remote areas. For non-metro locations, add a premium of 10% to 20% to online prices (including shipping costs) to arrive at local price.

Last edited by Aroy : 2nd March 2018 at 12:45.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 22:57   #1183
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Thank you Aroy and Prowler that is informative. The motor is a 1.5hp requiring 1.5kv rating. There is already a 10 year old inverter with a single battery for lighting and tv purpose and a 5kv kirloskar generator for further duties.

I will ask my brother to shop around as currently he has estimates from microtek and luminous. The first uses vguard batteries with the same sine wave tech and tubular batteries as the luminous one.

In the future I do have plans for a solar option as I do not see powercuts in our area being a thing of the past, no matter who says what about the power situation or who is in power.

Let me know if this data provided helps. Thanks again!

Maddy
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Old 3rd March 2018, 00:39   #1184
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How long do you want to run the motor for?
Inverters are just not suitable for these type of loads because to do it successfully and practically would require oversizing the system and buying extra batteries for less frequent usage would be a waste of money compared to just running it off the generator.
I came to this conclusion after trying to size a system for my farm where even I would have been running 1.5-2HP motors.

We don't have too frequent cuts over here in Himachal but whenever they are, they last half a day or more so even I need something to run the borewell and my milking machine etc.
Buying, maintaining and running a generator is definitely easier for my case. If you can justify and use the extra batteries for prolonged usage at home if cuts are much longer then you can definitely go for a 3-5kva inverter which can run the motor for a short duration and the extra battery life will help in extra long cuts.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 10:13   #1185
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Thank you Aroy and Prowler that is informative. The motor is a 1.5hp requiring 1.5kv rating. There is already a 10 year old inverter with a single battery for lighting and tv purpose and a 5kv kirloskar generator for further duties.

I will ask my brother to shop around as currently he has estimates from microtek and luminous. The first uses vguard batteries with the same sine wave tech and tubular batteries as the luminous one.

In the future I do have plans for a solar option as I do not see powercuts in our area being a thing of the past, no matter who says what about the power situation or who is in power.

Let me know if this data provided helps. Thanks again!

Maddy
As you have a 5 KVA generator, that will be enough to run 1.5HP (around 1KW) motor, and charge your inverter.

If your load is low; as I deduce from your post; then get another single battery 800 KVA inverter, with bigger batteries - 200AH tubular. In fact you can get batteries used by electrical forklift and similar vehicles, as these are meant for high discharge and frequent charging. Just check how long the inverter will take to charge bigger capacity battery.

Solar systems today cost around Rs.50,000/ per peak KVA without batteries. You can always use the Solar system to charge the inverter batteries. To get longer discharge time just add another battery in parallel.

In my opinion as a long term solution
. Get in touch with people who sell, install and consult Solar Power solutions.
. As then to design a solution for you needs that incorporate Solar and Generator power along with storage batteries.
. If they can build in expandibility to take care of future load, so much better. This will ensure that long term needs are taken care of.
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