[ampere]

Originally Posted by yousivakutti

@Harry, Nice Info!! However, the few features like wheelbase/Tyre size, Navigation and etc., differentiates from City. Also, if there is price difference >50,000 INR between VMT and Zxi. Isn't make sense to buy Ciaz? Just curious as I've booked City VMT and waiting almost 2 months now. Tnx.

Looking at the petrol option, the engine itself makes it the first reason to look at City. I think there is no comparison there. Its the diesel where the fight is on.

[harry10]

Originally Posted by ampere

Looking at the petrol option, the engine itself makes it the first reason to look at City. I think there is no comparison there. Its the diesel where the fight it is on.

Oh yeah. I didn't see its a petrol. Agreed. No comparison there. I will get City just for the petrol engine itself.

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by harry10

F- cos Honda is more premium than Maruti.

the perception that Honda is better brand than Maruti exists. At least in my near friends and family I have seen this perception.

Originally Posted by ad3952n

Folks! Maruti Suzuki Ciaz gets over 3000 bookings ....

Initial booking response looks promising for the Ciaz

However I received exactly the same response among potential buyers as quoted above like "why should I put in so much money 10+ lakhs and buy a Maruti and feel like a budget buyer ?" Maruti carries the mass market image and lacks aspirational value especially in the higher segments. No offence to any Maruti owners and I've had/have them as well and they are good cars.

Apart from Honda which will be its main competitor, other brands like VW, Skoda and Ford and Hyundai also have better aspirational (read: upmarket perception) value among C2 segment buyers

Seems like Maruti has put in a serious effort in the Ciaz to make it a strong contender in the C2 segment.

In the end, the Indian buyer will benefit with wider choice of good options due to the prevailing healthy competition and increasingly better value offerings from the manufacturers in this segment in their quest to get better market share.

[audioholic]

Saw the car in real today thanks to someone.

The negatives:
No cruise control. Badly wanted one in my next car. This thing can become a deal breaker for me. When MS plans to provide it in the swift family, not sure why Ciaz wont get it.
Rear seat doesn't look and feel luxurious as my SX4. Cushioning is a little thin and I think it requires some work. Moreover, the leather wasn't fit well again compared to what I got with the SX4. The leather in my car is still wrinkle free and fits snugly. Moreover, the area below seat bottom has a plastic trim compared to the carpet provided in my SX4. Again a pointer of some cost cutting I feel.

Apart from this, the positives are already well discussed about previously. No issues with everything else. One thing I observed is the car doesn't shout cost cutting everywhere. Compared to the City, this car still has small bits here and there to hide all the bad stuff. For example, trim to cover the screws, good cladding in the wheel well, good sound insulation material etc. Build quality is again leaps and bounds ahead of the SX4. Noticed this when I opened and shut the door. Even interior panels are well assembled, which I can say is a lot better than the Dzire. For the record, I just purchased a Dzire last week so I can compare in and out. The door is again thick and strong and no cost cutting here.

Didn't get to drive the car though, but mind you, the diesel is very, very refined. Compared to the swifts and Dzires or even the Ertiga, this one is silent until revved really hard.

Demand seems to be good as per the person. But I will be holding the booking since currently there isn't an urgency to upgrade and I need to sell the SX4 first

[blacksport]

This isn't going to sell. The ciaz looks too plain and uninspiring to attract new customers. The only ones who would be willing to spare a glance would be the maruti loyalists. But once they reach the showrooms, they are going to shift their preference to the dzire. The dzire has all the required features for the maruti loyalists of this segment, namely the boot.

I think, maruti knows it better than anybody else, but keep launching these cars to keep the portfolio appear complete.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by blacksport

This isn't going to sell. The ciaz looks too plain and uninspiring to attract new customers. The only ones who would be willing to spare a glance would be the maruti loyalists. But once they reach the showrooms, they are going to shift their preference to the dzire. The dzire has all the required features for the maruti loyalists of this segment

I beg to differ on your point of view, firstly Ciaz and Dzire can't be compared as they both fall in different categories respectively. Had the 2 segments/cars been common then instead of SX4 being discontinued, Maruti could have easily discontinued the Dzire and not plan another makeover for it.

The Ciaz does not fall in the sub-4 meter category so it's sales won't be dented by the Dzire. Also, each segment has it's own buyers and target audience. Please don't forget that even Maruti Kizashi had it's buyer base, no matter how few.

Thanks

[aseem]

Originally Posted by harry10

Oh yeah. I didn't see its a petrol. Agreed. No comparison there. I will get City just for the petrol engine itself.

Being a 2011 Honda City owner and having test driven the new City I just want to say that the i-Vtec is "extemely" overrated. The power delivery is "peaky" and the engine gets extremely "loud" for you to extract any meaningful power.

I went from City petrol (118 horses) to Fiesta's (90) diesel but Fiesta "smokes" the City in useable power and torque spread. In addition the engine is way to silent compared to the City's i-Vtec which gets extremely noisy at higher RPM's.

So I truly feel a lot of the praise of i-Vtec is based on specs and not real world useable power delivery.

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by ad3952n

I beg to differ on your point of view, firstly Ciaz and Dzire can't be compared as they both fall in different categories respectively. Had the 2 segments/cars been common then instead of SX4 being discontinued, Maruti could have easily discontinued the Dzire and not plan another makeover for it.

The Ciaz does not fall in the sub-4 meter category so it's sales won't be dented by the Dzire. Also, each segment has it's own buyers and target audience. Please don't forget that even Maruti Kizashi had it's buyer base, no matter how few.

Thanks

They aren't similar, but potential buyers rarely see the difference and care only about its most important feature, the boot. And then the dzire trumps the ciaz in FE and that seals the contest.

Originally Posted by aseem

Being a 2011 Honda City owner and having test driven the new City I just want to say that the i-Vtec is "extemely" overrated. The power delivery is "peaky" and the engine gets extremely "loud" for you to extract any meaningful power.

I went from City petrol (118 horses) to Fiesta's (90) diesel but Fiesta "smokes" the City in useable power and torque spread. In addition the engine is way to silent compared to the City's i-Vtec which gets extremely noisy at higher RPM's.

So I truly feel a lot of the praise of i-Vtec is based on specs and not real world useable power delivery.

Sure, fiesta has usable power and is any day the practical option for the average customer. But, I say this from my experience with the civic, it is extremely exhilarating to revv the engine to 6000+ RPM, and no words can accurately explain the feeling. It's the ivtec for me any day.

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

What, as per per your experience, are the issues with Maruti's reliability?
Not only serviceable, it is easily repairable in case of minor accident. I met wit an accident 7 years ago around 200 kms from Delhi. The person at MASS checked my car and assured me that the car can be safely driven to Delhi as it has no mechanical issues. Would I have similar comfort in case of any other manufacturer? I am not so sure.

There are a lot of factors that go on to decide whether a car is trouble free or not. One such factor is the customer himself. For example, whenever am on vacation at my native place, I drive my cousin's swift. Its steering is too vague and is not accurate enough. Everytime I drive I see that it I slightly deteriorating. But my cousin refuses to acknowledge. He finds it okay. On my insistence, we once took it to a MASS. The guy who took the test drive turned the steering both ways, and said, it turns, then what's the problem. My cousin and the SA gave me queer looks. I gave up. But if it had been my ecosport, I would have sat on the head of the SA and got it fixed. For my cousin, the car runs and the steering turns, and that I good enough. And then the car rattles from everywhere, left, right, front, back. For him, it is part of the parcel, and does not bother one bit.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by blacksport

This isn't going to sell. The ciaz looks too plain and uninspiring to attract new customers. The only ones who would be willing to spare a glance would be the maruti loyalists. But once they reach the showrooms, they are going to shift their preference to the dzire. The dzire has all the required features for the maruti loyalists of this segment, namely the boot.

Don't forget that there are too many Maruti loyalists out there.

Originally Posted by blacksport

They aren't similar, but potential buyers rarely see the difference and care only about its most important feature, the boot. And then the dzire trumps the ciaz in FE and that seals the contest.

Most of the potential buyers in India will know the difference between a compact sedan and a sedan. Moreover, the boot is not the only major difference. Anyone looking for more space and comfort will surely stay away from Dezire.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by blacksport

This isn't going to sell. The ciaz looks too plain and uninspiring to attract new customers. The only ones who would be willing to spare a glance would be the maruti loyalists. But once they reach the showrooms, they are going to shift their preference to the dzire. The dzire has all the required features for the maruti loyalists of this segment, namely the boot.

I love the looks of the Ciaz and do feel sad why dad didn't wait for this before purchasing the Ertiga ZDi. I'd surely want this car in my garage. You can call me a Maruti loyalist, I don't mind.

Swift Dzire being compared to Ciaz! I mean how and why? They cater to two different segments and mindsets. Space + boot is at a different level when comparing both. One is a sub-4m car that had everything at minimum whereas the Ciaz had no such restriction.

Originally Posted by blacksport

I think, maruti knows it better than anybody else, but keep launching these cars to keep the portfolio appear complete.

They don't launch cars to keep that portfolio filled but by keeping the needs if people in mind. They have a car in every small car segment. The C segment was touched but failed attempts so I see no issue if Maruti had tried their hand at the segment once again.

The Verna, City and Vento sell well so what's wrong if Maruti wants to have a share in that market too?

Anurag.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by blacksport

They aren't similar, but potential buyers rarely see the difference and care only about its most important feature, the boot. And then the dzire trumps the ciaz in FE and that seals the contest.

I appreciate your views my friend. Sit once in the Dzire and the Ciaz, you will get to know the difference. I just did that today. For a person sitting in front of a web page and watching specs, they rarely see the difference.

BTW, what makes you say that the Dzire trumps Ciaz in FE? A little more browsing would help.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by blacksport

They aren't similar, but potential buyers rarely see the difference and care only about its most important feature, the boot. And then the dzire trumps the ciaz in FE and that seals the contest.

See, if we even compare boots of both cars then it will be like comparing apples and oranges. Both are 2 different structures and their measurements will differ too. If you say boot is the main consideration then, bigger the boot the better it will be. Hence, in that CIAZ wins. Regarding Fuel efficiency, Ciaz gets 2 variants in engines as I am told by Maruti ASC i.e 1.3L and 1.4L, so don't just go by what ARAI claims in "standard" conditions. Drive and feel the difference.

Also, It is not right to compare both the cars in any respect my friend.

Thanks

[blacksport]

Originally Posted by audioholic

I appreciate your views my friend. Sit once in the Dzire and the Ciaz, you will get to know the difference. I just did that today. For a person sitting in front of a web page and watching specs, they rarely see the difference.

BTW, what makes you say that the Dzire trumps Ciaz in FE? A little more browsing would help.

Am not saying that dzire is superior to the ciaz, but the target buyer isn't going to see beyond the boot. With the dzire, he gets a familiar face, a boot and proven FE, at a cheaper price.

Originally Posted by ad3952n

See, if we even compare boots of both cars then it will be like comparing apples and oranges. Both are 2 different structures and their measurements will differ too. If you say boot is the main consideration then, bigger the boot the better it will be. Hence, in that CIAZ wins. Regarding Fuel efficiency, Ciaz gets 2 variants in engines as I am told by Maruti ASC i.e 1.3L and 1.4L, so don't just go by what ARAI claims in "standard" conditions. Drive and feel the difference.

Also, It is not right to compare both the cars in any respect my friend.

Thanks

Am not comparing, just saying that people would cross shop. The size of the boot does not matter. For most, the existence of one would suffice.

For the ciaz the competition would not be from city, fiesta or Verna. Dzire is the one to beat.

[ad3952n]

Originally Posted by blacksport

Am not comparing, just saying that people would cross shop. The size of the boot does not matter. For most, the existence of one would suffice.

Cross shopping is budget based and not that drastic. A person who goes to a showroom with a budget of buying a Swift may end up in booking a Dzire, which sounds fair. But a person who goes to buy a Ciaz or SX4 will not buy a Dzire for sure. There is a notion of product preference in the market.

For the ciaz the competition would not be from city, fiesta or Verna. Dzire is the one to beat.

Let me add, Maruti has been existing in India when the Auto Industry of India had limited choices. Maruti understands the Indian car market and the consumers way better than any other auto brand here. Their product positioning is totally unquestionable.

The above statement given by you is really misjudged from first word. How can you even predict that a C-segment car has competition to a sub-4 meter sedan? I have told you earlier in my post that Ciaz and Dzire are not to be compared at all. Please understand, if Ciaz is launched as a C-Segment contender then there is some logic behind it and that being, the existing fleet of Verna, Vento, Honda City et al.

Do you think that Maruti is so poor in thinking that it will launch a new product to kill the sales of it's established product and more so when Maruti is coming out with a new Dzire too?

Wait till October 1st week or 2nd Week, Ciaz would be launched. Then over here on Team-bhp you will have a comparative thread for Ciaz too. Then it will be worth discussing as to who is the real competition for Ciaz.

Till then please be pacified with this small piece of info:

take a look at how it compares on paper against the competition in the mid-size sedan segment – the Honda City, the Hyundai Verna, the Volkswagen Vento, Fiat Linea and Ford Fiesta.

INFO

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by blacksport

Am not saying that dzire is superior to the ciaz, but the target buyer isn't going to see beyond the boot. With the dzire, he gets a familiar face, a boot and proven FE, at a cheaper price.

Am not comparing, just saying that people would cross shop. The size of the boot does not matter. For most, the existence of one would suffice.

For the ciaz the competition would not be from city, fiesta or Verna. Dzire is the one to beat.

LOL. I hope you are joking. The Dzire and Ciaz in the same sentence? Do you seriously think that someone looking at Verna in Hyundai showroom will start looking at the Xcent instead? Or someone looking at top end City will settle for the Amaze?

If at all anything it will be the reverse. A buyer looking at Dzire will see the Ciaz, with better performance, features, full size sedan, proper boot, amazing rear legroom, way more premium and all that for maybe 2-3 lakhs more than a Dzire. He will start reworking his finances.

A city/Verna buyer doesn't even look at Sunny or Etios.

Maruti have gone to town with the Ciaz. The Euro styling, the sheer dimensions (almost Altis length), the features, the space inside, the fit/finish seems good on pics and very decent engine options.