[devsoftech]

Is it just me who believes that the following are inspired from a CIVIC (in addition to dashboard cues inspired by vento).
1. Bumper airdam, fog lamp housing and the crease near the front fenders
2. Rear reading lamps
3. Rear seat and front seats back part (having storage pockets)
4. Lighting layout near overhead console in roof
5. Headlamps design

[Fornax]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

People have got to understand that this has no bearing on safety...I hope this debunks any further claims that length of bonnet, metal thickness and build quality, have an impact on crash safety

The question is not asked just a naïve inquiry about safety, its about the implication of not knowing what you are buying for the money spent. Safety would come into play in a myriad ways, crash tests help you visualize the worst case ones. I am concerned about everything in between as well, hence the hunt for knowledge of sheet metal thickness.

Also, I don't agree that the thickness of metal has no implication for safety.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I hope this debunks any further claims that length of bonnet, metal thickness and build quality, have an impact on crash safety

You are partially right to say that metal thickness and build quality does not have an impact on crash safety. Most of the new-age manufacturers are moving to lighter materials without compromising on structural rigidity. If the latter is not considered well, then lighter cars (even with a no. of airbags) can be a recipe for disaster.

I do hope Ciaz is well-covered on crashworthiness. Must admit that I am not very optimistic because this is a region-specific model. I have noticed that even an international model like the Swift feels very different outside India. But again, too early to pass a judgement.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by Fornax

The question is not asked just a naïve inquiry about safety, its about the implication of not knowing what you are buying for the money spent. Safety would come into play in a myriad ways, crash tests help you visualize the worst case ones. I am concerned about everything in between as well, hence the hunt for knowledge of sheet metal thickness.

Also, I don't agree that the thickness of metal has no implication for safety.

Perhaps you intended something else but you asked about metal thickness "given that safety is touted as a huge feature these days" My argument was framed perfectly for the point you raised.

If you're talking about safety on a spectrum, please make it clear what you mean by "everything in between".

Buddy, I just showed you an example of how it doesn't matter these days. Car manufacturers have come a long way and can now achieve high structural rigidity and strength through better design even with the same material. Other elements like well designed and placed crumple zones also are a more effective way of dissipating energy. The need for thicker metal is next to irrelevant now. If it were that important, then the 3 series should have scored better than the Kizashi, let alone perform so poorly in comparison. We'd all be driving around in Ambassadors pretending to be invincible too.

[audioholic]

Originally Posted by Fornax

.

Also, I don't agree that the thickness of metal has no implication for safety.

I am sorry, but its the other way round. Today we have composite structures, with varying metal and metal thickness across the body. Some parts of the car are purposely made thin and vice versa. Having thick sheet metal doesn't mean YOU are safe, even if your CAR is safe.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

I just showed you an example of how it doesn't matter these days. Car manufacturers have come a long way and can now achieve high structural rigidity and strength through better design even with the same material. Other elements like well designed and placed crumple zones also are a more effective way of dissipating energy. The need for thicker metal is next to irrelevant now.

I totally agree on your point about emphasis being given for getting the most out light metal. But just out of curiosity, won't the same structure designed in the same way but with a thicker sheet of metal be stronger? This is only probing question, by the way.

[Naetik30]

Originally Posted by prakash_ajp

I totally agree on your point about emphasis being given for getting the most out light metal. But just out of curiosity, won't the same structure designed in the same way but with a thicker sheet of metal be stronger? This is only probing question, by the way.

More than thicker or thinner the part should be of right thickness to dissipate max energy in an impact. But basic physics shows that a thicker metal that would not crumble or break has higher chance of transferring energy to people inside and hence may be dangerous. But is the part is of right thickness and design it has higher chance of dissipating the energy. Note here that the most important factor is which design-metal-thickness combo can dissipate max energy.

Consider this example. Jumping on concrete floor with stiff knees will hurt more than when u bend the knees during impact. Same goes for cars.

[noopster]

Mod Note: Please stay on-topic- this thread is to discuss the Ciaz. Some posts have been edited to remove extraneous content. Any more off-topic/personal attack posts will be summarily deleted.

[Fornax]

Regards the comparision with Civic, the one feature I used to love in Civics next to me was the digital speedo. Rarely see it on cars except Jetta as I've personally seen it.

The Ciaz console looks very similiar to that of the Swift family, whatever happened to horses for courses?

Also, given the sale of Here Maps to M$, should we expect neglect for Indian updates?

PS: Unconditional apology to anyone offended by my previous posts.

PPS: I think I found the right car to upgrade from my SX4, and the interest in Ciaz is waning.

[i10]

Originally Posted by Fornax

Also, given the sale of Here Maps to M$, should we expect neglect for Indian updates?

Here navigation services are still with Nokia. This is the same service / map backing up Garmin devices for years. My experience with Here (erstwhile Ovi / Nokia) maps in India over the last 6 years - mostly in metros - has been pretty good, and they continue to be updated pretty frequently.

[aseem]

All vendors including Maruti do cost cutting it's a given. Why Maruti even VW, Skoda and Honda do it. When a car of City's size comes with 175 section tire or Etios comes with barbone interiors it's all cost cutting. Having said hat we can't single out Maruti for doing it or draw conclusion on its safety. All vendors borrow interior bits from their smaller cars. Look at Polo Vento and Jetta you would find part sharing. Rest I find new Swifts interiors amazing for its class so borrowing few bits is hardly a crime.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by aseem

All vendors including Maruti do cost cutting it's a given. Why Maruti even VW, Skoda and Honda do it.

so borrowing few bits is hardly a crime.

Part sharing across models / brands will help regularise issues and also keeps a check on overall costs incurred during manufacturing, capital investment.

Lesser the expenditure, lesser the car costs thanks to the advantages of mass production. More the parts shared, problem solving gets better.

Originally Posted by aseem

When a car of City's size comes with 175 section tire or Etios comes with barbone interiors it's all cost cutting.

Along with the cost cutting seen (Mobilio is the best example), the 175 section skinny tyres help increase the FE. Broader tyres would loose out on FE, that is the most important point in India.

Anurag.

[cpbopanna]

As pointed out earlier, the SX4 has certain nice (and required) features that are missing in the Ciaz:

1) The adjustable neck restraints in the rear seat
2) The speed-adjustable intermittent wiper

I also like the large steering wheel in the SX4 VDi/VXi - with no volume buttons on the wheel - the basic advantage being very easy access to the horn button without having to remove the hand/thumb to press the horn button!

Slightly OT:
I personally am not a fan of FE at the cost of comfort/safety.
I drive an SX4 diesel with 205/60 R16 tyres and am more than willing to sacrifice 1-2 kmpl of FE for the re-assuring; planted feel when accelerating/braking/cruising.

In any case, I obtain a minimum of 15 kmpl under ANY driving conditions (hard acceleration/braking/cruising on the wrong side of 100 kmph/air-con on throughout/city/highway).
Hence, in my opinion, other than the skinny tyres addressing the 'kitna dethi hai' psychological road-block, in real world situations, it translates to a mere 50 ps/km difference in running costs!

[rajshenoy]

Not sure if I missed this piece of info here. But is the Automatic variant of Ciaz going to be launched simultaneously ? Hope it will be a CVT

A friend of mine went to Maruti show room and said that bookings are open for Auto variant as well with 21K booking(refundable) And Vehicle is expected to launch in October. But no one is aware of the Auto variant specs and features

[amit_2025]

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

Not sure if I missed this piece of info here. But is the Automatic variant of Ciaz going to be launched simultaneously ? Hope it will be a CVT

A friend of mine went to Maruti show room and said that bookings are open for Auto variant as well with 21K booking(refundable) And Vehicle is expected to launch in October. But no one is aware of the Auto variant specs and features

The Auto box will be a four speed and available only on the Petrol Variant. There are no reviews available on the drive yet.