[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

Beat's problem is market perception. Being a Chevy its not selling. But it is VFM still. If you think VFM means big sales numbers, no, you are incorrect here. Beat is totally VFM, be it petrol or diesel. If its not selling much and people go crazy after Celerio's 800cc 2 cyl diesel, it is herd mentality.

I am not saying that anything that sells well is VFM. I am saying there is more to a product's success than just branding.

Ritz from Maruti is a poor seller (comparatively) even though it shares the engines with Swift. Also we need to wait for the car to be launched and review it before going to brand the buyers with herd mentality (if it sells well).

Finally it is their money. They choose to put it where they feel they are getting max for it. If Beat is not able to put that perception in buyer's mind, it is the company's fault. Full marks to Maruti if they are able to do it time and again.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by romeomidhun

Confused. The 1.6L engine in SX4 is a petrol engine. And the Diesel engine in SX4 is of 1248cc.

Yes, I'm not saying it would be a direct chop job like in other cases. There would be more differences than similarities. However, if they base their design on Fiat or any other manufacturer's diesel engine, they would have to pay some level of licensing fees to them which Suzuki would never want.

Considering Suzuki doesn't have any in-house diesel engine to play with and need a foundation to base their diesel engine design on, it might have been a petrol engine design that they would have relied on. Since the per cylinder volume of 1586cc 4 cylinder engine and the 793cc 2 cylinder engine is same, I'm just guessing that the SX4 engine might have been the foundation on which they might have started their work of designing the diesel engine. They would have made all necessary changes across the board to handle the higher pressure of diesel compression and support all other components of a diesel engine but the basic inline-4 design could be reused from a petrol engine of their own.

Eventually, they'll figure out the sweet spot for the bore/stroke in 3 and 4 cylinder configurations and alter this design but for a start, they might just as well stick to the existing petrol spec.

If I remember correctly, Skoda Fabia 1.2L petrol and diesel had the exact same cubic capacity. I'm not sure if there were any parts sharing involved there but I think it is possible. Others who actually know about it can probably correct me if they were completely different and the cc was just a coincidence.

[balajisv]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

Finally it is their money. They choose to put it where they feel they are getting max for it. If Beat is not able to put that perception in buyer's mind, it is the company's fault. Full marks to Maruti if they are able to do it time and again.

Even if a company gives a great product and assures a VFM package, the herd will still have its own way. And an other company continues to milk the customers.

At 5 lacs (add some 20-30k), its better to buy a Ritz instead! Atleast I will do the same than picking up a 2-cyl diesel engine Celerio.

[SchumiFan]

Originally Posted by balajisv

Even if a company gives a great product and assures a VFM package, the herd will still have its own way. And an other company continues to milk the customers.

At 5 lacs (add some 20-30k), its better to buy a Ritz instead! Atleast I will do the same than picking up a 2-cyl diesel engine Celerio.

We should wait till the car arrives in the market and let the reviews be established before coming to conclusion as to why it is selling (if it sells well).

As far as I am concerned, having a good product isn't the end of matter. It is the company's responsibility to market it in a way the customers grab it.

Maruti have been selling cars for ages and backing it up with reliable service. Hence it will always be the first option for any new car buyers to look at in the sub 10L/5L segment.

Personally I am all for cars with great mileage. It is a fossil fuel and the less we use it, the better it is for future generations.

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by SchumiFan

We should wait till the car arrives in the market ....

Celerio Diesel is speculated to launch on April 20th. They will add the ZXI variant to the ASG ( AMT) line up.

Source:Gaadiwaadi

[zenren]

Originally Posted by balajisv

At 5 lacs (add some 20-30k), its better to buy a Ritz instead! Atleast I will do the same than picking up a 2-cyl diesel engine Celerio.

5 lakhs is for Celerio ZDi while 5.5 lakhs is for Ritz LDi. There is absolutely no comparison between the Z vs L across any segments. There would always be this type of overlap and it is up to the customer whether they want a smaller fully loaded car or a bigger bare bones car.

Right comparison would be with the 6.4 lakhs tag of Ritz ZDi which is approximately 1.4 lakhs higher. That is the actual difference between these cars. For someone who is okay with base variant, they would be looking at the Celerio LDi which should be at a proportionately lower price compared to Ritz LDi.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

IMO that is too much power for a little 800cc 2 cylinder diesel to produce. I think the greaves garuda engine too is about 700 cc diesel which produces some 10 odd bhp. Unless Maruti has discovered some magic wand, producing so much power is not imaginable. Also such 2 cylinder engines are generally very vibration prone (as seen in diesel autorickshaws) and a tremendous amount of sound deadening (added weight) is needed for it to sound like a car.

The magic wand that you are looking for is called "Turbocharger".

Comparing autorikshaws with cars or bikes is clearly apples vs oranges. A 150cc petrol autorikshaw like the Bajaj has a power output of ~7-8 bhp while an equivalent capacity motor bike from the same company (Pulsar) has an output almost twice that figure.

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

If the Fiat Multijet being a 124x cc, can produce 73 bhp, an 800cc engine can definitely make 45 odd bhps. Plain mathematics, no magic wand required. For the NVH, yes, Maruti will need to go extra mile to improve for the 2 cyl unit.

Spot on. A better comparison would be the 3-cylinder 936cc engine in Beat, which is a cylinder chopped off the 1248cc Multijet engine. Accordingly, the power output is also 75% of the original - 57PS.

Similarly, an 800cc 2-cylinder diesel engine with 45PS would be equivalent to a 1.6L 4-cylinder engine with 90PS, which should be easily attainable considering the MJD itself has a 90PS state of tune. An equivalent 2-cylinder version of the 90PS MJD should have an output of 45PS with just 624cc.

[dipen]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I believe its going too be a 800 cc diesel engine producing 46 ps?? IMO that is too much power for a little 800cc 2 cylinder diesel to produce.

Originally Posted by itsashishsharma

If the Fiat Multijet being a 124x cc, can produce 73 bhp, an 800cc engine can definitely make 45 odd bhps.

Originally Posted by zenren

The magic wand that you are looking for is called "Turbocharger".

A better comparison would be the 3-cylinder 936cc engine in Beat, which is a cylinder chopped off the 1248cc Multijet engine. Accordingly, the power output is also 75% of the original - 57PS.

Similarly, an 800cc 2-cylinder diesel engine with 45PS would be equivalent to a 1.6L 4-cylinder engine with 90PS, which should be easily attainable considering the MJD itself has a 90PS state of tune. An equivalent 2-cylinder version of the 90PS MJD should have an output of 45PS with just 624cc.

On similar lines, if the Verna 1.6 can do 125 hp from our fuel, even 60+ looks attainable from an 800 cc. But knowing Maruti they will play the FE card and down tune it.

[volkman10]

Maruti is gearing up for the speculated launch of its Celerio diesel in April ( 4th week?).

Builds up stock before launch.

Sporting the ZDI badge.


Stock build up before launch



https://twitter.com/gaadiwaadi/statu...32221870469120

[S2!!!]

Maruti is also likely to target the 'taxi' market with the Celerio diesel. After meeting some success with the Dzire Tour, Maruti is once again eyeing this segment, hence a 'taxi variant' is also going to be introduced.


Link to news article

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by S2!!!

Maruti is also likely to target the 'taxi' market with the Celerio diesel. After meeting some success with the Dzire Tour, Maruti is once again eyeing this segment, hence a 'taxi variant' is also going to be introduced.

Maruti is planning all the blunders nowadays to tarnish their own image, I guess. They are targeting the mini lorry segment with an Omni-based pickup. Now, introducing the taxi version of a good-selling passenger car.

Had they introduced a hatch model solely for the taxi market, it would have been a better decision (like Tour). Sending Celerio to the taxi market is not good to its image, IMO.

[MHG]

I am going to be watching the diesel Celerio carefully due to the implications it can have on the cheap diesel car market in India. Considering this will be a mass market diesel engine by Maruti and used by potentially tens of thousands of taxi drivers in India apart from tens of thousands of normal folk, servicing the car should be extremely easy.

If Maruti plays its cards well, this shall become the defacto cheap diesel to have, in a market where cheap diesels are not doing well due to ageing models (Tata Indica and Chevrolet Beat). It could kill the Tata Kite Diesel even before launch and potentially kill the Indica (which continues to sell due to being the cheapest available car for the various cabbies employed by the likes of Ola, TaxiForSure, Meru and Uber) for real (unless Tata discontinues the Indica in favor of the Kite).

I only hope Maruti doesn't price the diesel Celerio too close to the Ritz territory. The only reason to buy a Celerio non-AMT now over the Ritz Petrol (with loads of discounts and availability in plenty in the used car market) is the slightly more frugal petrol engine.

[RSR]

The Celerio AMT in ZXi variant is very welcome! I hope a ZXi(O) with passenger airbag and ABS also follows soon.

So now both Tata and Maruti Suzuki are making amends by introducing the much needed airbag(s) on affordable automatics. When will Hyundai learn that automatic buyers also want airbags, at least as an option? Their lowest priced automatic, the Grand i10 1.2 is available only in Asta trim level with neither airbags nor ABS.

The Celerio has become the preferred guinea pig of sorts for Maruti Suzuki to try out new technologies. First, it was the AMT and now, we have their in-house twin cylinder diesel engine. IMHO, they should have tried out the 800cc diesel on the Eeco first. It's a big gamble on the NVH front with a two pot diesel, and the Eeco with its commercial focus would have been a much better choice of guinea pig for the new engine, than the Celerio which has been positioned as an intelligent & easy-to-drive car primarily meant for urban folks.

The diesel Celerio should be highly frugal and spacious enough for the city taxi segment, but I feel the Ritz would have been a better choice for this role. Although still remaining a very competent car, it has clearly begun to show its age now. It doesn't get the additional features found on other Maruti Suzuki new cars / facelifts, and the rear styling hasn't clicked with buyers (though I personally like the boomerang effect). None of these matter to the taxi operator, and a taxi special bare-bones Ritz (in petrol/CNG & diesel) would be a big hit with them, especially as the stable's other taxi special (Dzire Tour) shares the same powertrains.

[zenren]

Originally Posted by RSR

The Celerio AMT in ZXi variant is very welcome! I hope a ZXi(O) with passenger airbag and ABS also follows soon.

According to the below article, ZXI AMT would get ABS and dual airbags as standard. If so, a ZXI option with AMT is probably not necessary.

[Aditya]

Here ares some images of the upcoming Celerio ZXi AMT.

Link to Team-BHP News Article









Source: Gaadiwaadi