[DriveOnceMore]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Hats off to your misplaced over-confidence.

You will be surprised (though I seriously wish to be proven wrong) when the more info starts coming out after sometime.

FYI not only Maruti, it is a well known fact that Hyundai and other manufacturers did compromised on structural integrity on India specific models of exactly the same car.

The other manufacturers like Hyundai which produces cars in India only exports them to markets which are safety norms equivalent to India (means no safety norms). Europe gets cars built in Turkey.

Let it be.. as you said only time will reveal the reality about how safe this Baleno is.

[sourabhzen]

Originally Posted by Motard_Blr

I have made some calculations below that show that the Baleno is the most expensive car compared to the i20 and the Jazz especially when it is the least safe of the three. How can Maruti charge 16% more per kg than the i20?!

Edit: I just realised that a line is obscured by the TBHP logo. It reads Rs/kg behind the logo.

How did you come to the conclusion that it is least safe? Do you have any substantial data to prove that?

At per kg price TUV, Bolero, Sumo, will rule the market. I think we are not comparing potatoes and onions here.

[samaspire]

I see a big debate on the structural strength of the Baleno, and the sheet metal thickness. But what really matters to the common man is how easily will it attract small dents and scratches in day-to-day driving and parking situations. I have a 2008 Alto and that is a scratch magnet - how much better is this Baleno.

[aniketi]

Originally Posted by hybridpetrol

Digressing (from the current safety topic) a bit from here:
Looks like, feature-wise, Baleno Zeta, is comparable to Swift Zxi.
Prices: Swift - 6.24L, of course discounts will be there. Baleno - 6.31L. Both ex-showroom Delhi.

What do we get in Swift Zxi in addition?
2 tweeters in addition to 4 speakers, Rear fog lamp - these are missing in Baleno.
The additions in Baleno Zeta?
Telescopic Steering wheel, Rear parking sensors, Auto IRVM, Driver Armrest with Storage, Leathers in Steering wheel & Gear knob, 60:40 Split Rear seat, Cup holders in the rear, Chrome door handles, Auto headlamps, follow me home feature, and some more.

Assuming Discounts will be available for the Swift, I wanted to compare Baleno Delta (priced 5.71L) with Swift Zxi.
What do we get in Swift Zxi in addition?
Start/Stop Button, 2 tweeters in addition to 4 speakers, Front & Rear fog lamp, MFD - these are missing in Baleno Delta.
The additions in Baleno Delta?
Rear parking sensors, 60:40 Split Rear seat, Cup holders in the rear - Apart from this, Baleno is more or less same to Delta by features.

Nice, Baleno makes more sense now for sure, no doubt about that. Firstly its new & looks premium than Swift, it has lot more space including boot space and has safety features which is icing on the cake

But Maruti will play smart here for sure. If sales of Swift / DZire falls more than they would be expecting, they will start throwing discounts on the Swift / DZire duo. . Discounts in the range of 40-50 K makes it VFM against the cars like i10 Grand, i10, Figo, Polo, Amaze, Xcent, Aspire, Zest etc. Thus they will make sure that overall sells are increasing and others get dent. Big reason for worry for Honda, Hyundai, Ford, Tata

[Leoshashi]

Originally Posted by aniketi

But Maruti will play smart here for sure. If sales of Swift / DZire falls more than they would be expecting, they will start throwing discounts on the Swift / DZire duo. . Discounts in the range of 40-50 K makes it VFM against the cars like i10 Grand, i10, Figo, Polo, Amaze, Xcent, Aspire, Zest etc. Thus they will make sure that overall sells are increasing and others get dent. Big reason for worry for Honda, Hyundai, Ford, Tata

Swift already has ongoing discounts in the tune of 50k since the past one week.

Regards,
Shashi

[StarrySky]

With MSIL planning to export Baleno to many countries, what are the chances that Baleno will go the EcoSport way - long waiting list and multiple price hikes in domestic market while the company happily exports half the cars produced each month?

[Jeevith]

Originally Posted by Leoshashi

I believe Maruti has launched Baleno through the "restricted channel" to safeguard the Swift and Dzire, which are selling like hot cakes. Baleno, under the same roof might somehow appear more VFM than Swift or Dzire, causing long waiting lists, and some customers might eventually go to competitors. Hence Baleno, for the well informed, Swift for those customers who go solely on the "number of vehicles on road" factor. Dzire is anyway has the "badi gaadi" factor going for it.

To me, Swift might still be the handling benchmark among all Maruti hatches, but for everything else, Baleno is a better proposition.

No offence to owners of cars mentioned above.

Regards,
Shashi

In concurrence with Shashi, NEXA plans to have around 300 showrooms by the end of this fiscal. That's about 3/5th the amount of showrooms / dealers that Hyundai have. The target for the Baleno is the i20 without collateral damage to the Swift.

Besides, the regular Maruthi showrooms can also take bookings for the Baleno (and then pass them on to NEXA). I'm sure most people have noticed that the existing Maruthi showrooms owners are the owners of the NEXAs as well (Pratham, Bimal, Kalyani)

[carwatcher]

Slight addition, Hyundai did export cars to Europe earlier but decided (or rather forced) to stop since the cars started failing crash tests.
Its a well known fact.

Don't you think, it would've actually made great business sense for Maruti to display a big sticker like i20 displaying the stars it received in crash test right from the word go which would've attracted far more customers and fence-sitters too.

Originally Posted by DriveOnceMore

The other manufacturers like Hyundai which produces cars in India only exports them to markets which are safety norms equivalent to India (means no safety norms).

[dZired]

Originally Posted by Jeevith

They do actually. So I visited NEXA before the 26th of this month (i.e. Baleno launch date). He offered to have the Zeta S-Cross with the projector headlamps (otherwise available only on the Alpha). He didn't give a price though.

So later (after the Baleno launched), I asked if I could get the same option on the Baleno. To which he said he would check. But yea, if they're willing to do it on the S-Cross, why not the Baleno. All you have to do is ask I guess!

Do let me know if you are able to get your hands on the pricing of these projectors. I too will talk to the SA here.

[DieselAddikt]

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

How did you come to the conclusion that it is least safe? Do you have any substantial data to prove that?

At per kg price TUV, Bolero, Sumo, will rule the market. I think we are not comparing potatoes and onions here.

My dear friend. Just to let you know my thoughts on this.

How can you say that this car is as safe as the others ? There is no crash test data to prove it. It is the same for people who say lighter cars are less safe. But here is how some people including me arrive at the conclusion that lighter cars are less safer.

1. Yes. Opening and closing a door. It speaks a lot about the build of the car. Lighter doors = lighter body panels = tin can like crumbling during an accident. No, that is not crumple zone at work. That is just the car crumbling beyond repair. Before some people jump in and tell me that modern cars crumple because they have crumple zones, it would be a wise idea to see a few videos and get educated on crumple zones. They are provided so that the cabin remains in tact or gets the least amount of shock/impact transferred to it. That means, the front of the car car crumple, but intrusion into the cabin should be the least. Watch a few videos on crashes in other countries and see for yourself as to how crumple zones should actually work and how the cars get crumpled in India. Just check the "Accidents in India" thread in our own forum and see how many Marutis have this in place ? In any accident involving a Maruti (unless it is a fender bender), you can see that that whole car has been in a mangled state. Here again, before telling me that I am talking about the remains of the car that has been cut open to save the occupants, that statement will speak for itself. Why did the car go into such a pathetic state that people were to be saved after cutting the car open ? Reason is just what I said; the car crumpled like a tin can that it was not possible to take the occupants out by opening / breaking the door. The roof had to be cut open. And that is not a virtue of a safe car.

2. Lighter cars are less safer. Why ? Simply because we are not talking about a Mclaren or a Ferrari here. We are talking about mass produced cars which costs a few thousand dollars. No carbon fiber / high tensile light weight materials will go into the manufacturing of these cars because they come at a price. Yes, there are lighter cars that are safer, but not any that we get in India. If there was a way to manufacture light weight, safer cars, the world would have started doing that long back. No manufacturer will see any harm in advertising their cars with 5 Star NCAP ratings and also having a high fuel efficiency. Each drop of fuel matters for everyone in this world now. And all manufacturers know that people are watching the fuel efficiency of their cars. So if there was a way to manufacture light weight cars which are safe, then a lot of these manufactures would have started doing that. In our case, see the difference in weight between the Swift sold in India and in EU. Our's is light. Reason ? Is it just the exclusion of safety features like Airbags ? NO, it has been found that the structure itself has been compromised. So the argument in India that lighter cars can still be safer does not hold true. And again, before people ridiculing me by mocking and saying "For him, Bolero is safer/ Ambassador is safer", come on folks, those cars and designs are decades old. (But hey, I might still survive better in a crash in a Bolero than in a Swift or an Indica !! Who knows !!)

For me, 6 Airbags in a tin can is of no use. ABS and EBD can at least prevent me from getting into an accident. So they are useful. But Maruti giving airbags in all models as standard is just to impress the customers. Some people will just be forced to think that these cars are safer. You are entitled to your believes. But for me, a structurally heavy and solidly built car is much more safer that a tin can with Airbags (provided one is wearing seat belt in both cases). I believe there is little help that an Airbag can provide when the whole cabin is getting crushed. But when you think about it again, yes, a Baleno without Airbags will be less safer than a Baleno with Airbags. So it is a welcome move.

Note: This is not only about Maruti, it is the same with all manufacturers who produce light weight cars for India.

[racer_ash]

Originally Posted by DieselAddikt

------
But when you think about it again, yes, a Baleno without Airbags will be less safer than a Baleno with Airbags. So it is a welcome move.

Note: This is not only about Maruti, it is the same with all manufacturers who produce light weight cars for India.

Brutally honest, but very true. Except that I dont believe that a Baleno with Airbags is safer than one without. An airbag deploying in a crumpling body shell is all the more dangerous than a crumpling shell without airbag. Imagine a situation where the steering column crumbled close to the driver and the airbags deploy right on his face/chest. It would prove even more catastrophic.

I feel any amount of discussion on safety of Indian cars is of little use unless we have data. We BHPians simply cannot say Car A is safe while Car B which is lighter is unsafe. A famous person once said. 'I trust God, for everyone else, get me data'

[carwatcher]

I am more than 100% sure he did it for fun, don't take it too far buddy. We actually have a thread on almost similar topic.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3164305

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/17/t...-2015-feature/

Originally Posted by sourabhzen

At per kg price TUV, Bolero, Sumo, will rule the market. I think we are not comparing potatoes and onions here.

[atnyia]

Here is a huge debate about the safety aspects of MSIL cars in general and Baleno is the current target. I have owned Getz and every other car from Maruti/Hyundai feels tinny to it. Wagon R is a special mention. MSIL has this sore point and let it be.

However, let's not miss the jungle for the wood. This things looks beautiful, distinct from it's rivals (infact it's rivals I20 and Jazz are quite distinct themselves) and one will not confuse it for any other car. The design is fresh and jazzy. I saw it today in person. With LED tail lamps, DRLs, good looking dash, this looks sexy. This is Huma Qureshi getting transformed into a car!

There is a huge disappointment on engine front (I went ahead with Ciaz purchase only when FGT was confirmed for Baleno).

Despite the shortcomings, we can say that the Maruti has delivered a hit here. It's nice looking, nice driving (autocar review), feature packed and reasonably priced. Team-BHP wants AB De Villiers level from a car while Maruti is giving us a Suresh Raina. Good enough for Indian conditions despite weak defence.

[Leoshashi]

I am surprised that there is no information yet, about the accessories for Baleno, despite it being launched on 26th. Even the NEXA representatives are clueless when it questioned about accessories.

Regards,
Shashi

[volkman10]

Originally Posted by dZired

Do let me know if you are able to get your hands on the pricing of these projectors. I too will talk to the SA here.

Sorry guys, they will not offer projector lights/HID as an accessory for S Cross for its lower variants ( Sigma, Delta, Zeta). Confirmed.

Similar will be the case of Baleno too.